Star Citizen Thread v6
- Thread starter Brett C
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It wasn't made clear exactly what relevance or need there is for mocapped flight controllers (yeah, Fidelity Roberts) as although they showed them in operation it wasn't explained how (or if) you could actually see them from your ship.
They talked a lot about how they'd looked into real flight landing procedures, but still failed to explain the actual mechanics of landing and waiting for a spot, especially as they're going to have 10,000 chariots in a instance.
They talked a lot about how they'd looked into real flight landing procedures, but still failed to explain the actual mechanics of landing and waiting for a spot, especially as they're going to have 10,000 chariots in a instance.
Because there are backers out there right now who are telling people Chris Roberts is building the actual Matrix. This is how you get $3m+ a month. It's Second Life in Space.
What will happen if:
- some griefer shoots the operator?
- operator has his StarPoopContainer™ full and had to go?
- 1000 players call the operator at once?
So much grief, glitch or bug game ruining potential in their loony "simulacrum of pointless minutia" (thanks Tippis, nailed it) gamedesign approach...
- some griefer shoots the operator?
- operator has his StarPoopContainer™ full and had to go?
- 1000 players call the operator at once?
So much grief, glitch or bug game ruining potential in their loony "simulacrum of pointless minutia" (thanks Tippis, nailed it) gamedesign approach...
It would be totally exciting if they would have finished one damn simple game loop.
They haven't. It is basically dream up sandbox do everything game. It is for gamers who thinks that game devs don't understand what they want - because they want it all.
It's an exercise in vanity.
CIG have made a lot of cool stuff, but it's just that, shiny to lure in
Backers and liberate them from their money.
If it's in the game we can start to talk about it, until then it's just lipstick on a
Pig.
Absolutely this - I just plan to nick the operators chair
CIG are just setting up more and more problems with this unnecessary fluff.
Absolutely this - I just plan to nick the operators chair
CIG are just setting up more and more problems with this unnecessary fluff.
They struggle to make doors work flawlessly but can't help themselves shooting in their feet again and again and again with unnecessary and overcomplicated stuff. Sure, they may gather more money from gullibles but they only push the train's accelerator forward AND thicken the wall they will hit.
you just don't understand fidelity!
What boggles the mind is that to me looking from the outside, it's a project out of control, budget, timelines, milestones, nothing and I repeat NOTHING gives you the impression that they are in control, nothing.....did I say N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!
How can this be, a $150.000.000+ project and people are just goofing around???
dayrth
Volunteer Moderator
And they keep doing exactly that. The only explanation for this course of action that I can think of is that they have given up on making the game and are now just trying to squeeze out as much money as possible before it folds.
I wonder if this is the much-hyped "game changer"? Regardless, I'd hazard a guess that this amazing new feature will be front and centre at CitizenCon, along with whatever else they can wring out of FOIP.
It's all smoke and mirrors, isn't it? Waving the eye-candy under the whales' noses to distract them from the fact that all they've got is a buggy tech demo and no game...
EDIT: I can almost picture the CitizenCon 2017 presentation:
CIG: "Look! Here's the new Air Traffic Controller Module (TM) that's going to allow you to safely take-off and land your ship though subsumption-driven, high-fidelity AI!"
Whales: " But we're still waiting to fly the bloody ships you sold us and have yet to build!"
CIG: "Look! Have you guys seen our awesome new FOIP feature! Would you like to know more?"
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what's going to happen when these npcs just happened to have their 'work place' get invaded? will they have allegiance subroutine in their 'intelligence'?
oh I get it... it's completely bull, bullcrap, the existence of such npc basically confirming that there is no dynamic player - environment interaction... because immersion would surely get ruined if some player (or non player) org invaded or took over levski for example and these ATC npcs aren't capable of reacting to such event... unless they build such impossible AI, which is highly unlikely, lmao.
yeah, all smoke and mirrors... when you try to add some substance they all fall apart, as it always been with cig as usual.
glad I got my refund today.
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Something Jones at SA has worked hard to bring us this transcription....
WARNING Verbal diarrhea incoming
This is the single most surreal transcript I have done to date.
Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Sep 21, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV2qhhtsMA0
@ 09:58
Mike Jones (Director of Corporate and Publishing Technology):
My team is responsible for DIGITAL PUBLISHING, and with 3.0 imminent we've been doing a lot of work to, uh... ENHANCE OUR SYSTEMS AND EXPAND OUR CAPABILITIES, and so I feel like we're ready to PUBLISH, uh... pretty much ANYTIME, uh... we get a selected build that's READY TO GO
@ 15:00
Carlos Pla Pueyo (Gameplay Programmer):
With the air traffic controller we have tried to ah... get a FEELING of a REALISTIC SITUATION, so... when REAL LIFE when you have different PLANES coming to an airport you need some kind of CONTROL, you need RULES, you need a way of making sure that everything is going to PLAN. So we have been trying to get the same behavior in... in a STAR CITIZEN so... up to now when you approaching a station you just have to... LAND and that's it. Now, you have to REQUEST landing which implies a communication with SOMEONE, an NPC which can be a REAL NPC or a AUTOMATIC VOICE...
Automatic Voice:
One hangar comin' up!
Carlos Pla Pueyo:
...telling you where you can LAND, or if there's no space available or anything like that. And there's also a controller were how much you can stay in a landing pad, eh... like security measures and so on.
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
Right now players can just land everywhere they want, there is nothing controlling them, there is nothing saying, 'oh you should PARK HERE', there's no rules to that, and we needed to find a system that basically co ordinates landing, taking off, and also creating more IMMERSION on what actually like flight controllers are.
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
The CONCEPT behind our game is to be very REALISTIC in what we do, so we do a lot of research in anything that goes on and especially... that DEFINITELY does not uh... uh... leave out the air traffic controllers, so we've done a lot of RESEARCH into what air traffic controllers DO. When... when we were ON SET in... in... and ah... FILMING and PCAP it... it was... it was really important you know cos the game was... er... really much FILMED LIKE A MOVIE and as we... as we went about TRACKING and trying to manage and maintain the CONTENT it was very clear that we needed to focus on the IMPLEMENTATION side and to use that as a way to track how the... the PCAP should be cut up and the way it should be ORGANIZED so... UTILIZING THAT BACKGROUND OF IMPLEMENTATION I made sure that we TRACKED OUR PCAP in a way that was ultimately feasible to edit... edit the project and... and... and... and uh... actually track how... how it was being cut up and... and uh... and... on... on the uh... on the EDITING BOARD.
It's really a BEHAVIORAL THING and so while we can record all the context and all the different dialogue that we want, it really becomes... you know it really comes down to our SYSTEMS to really be able to handle it, and yeah, our engineering team is just phenomenal, they... they are really pushing the boundary of what AI can really HANDLE, and making it a really systemic... ah... ah... MODULE OF BEHAVIOR so it's not just like, you know, 'oh these guys do this thing or whatever', it's a real AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER MODULE that... that... that... that's DEFINING all of these BEHAVIORS and... and... and it's not even just ONE VOICE that's defining the whole BALLET of all the different, you know, PEOPLE DOIN' ALL THE SIGNALS and the AI is saying, 'you can GO and you have to TAKE OFF or you can LAND, you go HERE', you know, all those kind of things... it's... it's... it's... it's a WHOLE BALLET of all these uh... uh... CHARACTERS involved.
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
Well one of the more complicated things is that it's not working like in REAL LIFE where everyone behaves as they should be, right? So it's still a GAME and players so what they WANT sometimes, so we need to make sure to have RULES in place which allow players to actually have an IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE but also don't abuse other players as well and have like, PUNISHMENT almost, um... when they not follow the RULES
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
You have to account for the silly stupid things like a player strafing the station, or uh, flying too close and you know they have to react in a way it's... it, eh... you know... it ah... ah... it's both HELPFUL to the player haha, let's not do that haha! But, eh... but it's also... it's... it's... it's a GAME you know, it HAPPENS and it's FUN, ENTERTAINING.
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
So every flight controller is its own AI. When you hailing a tower to request landing or takeoff, you're gonna be in contact with an actual SUBSUMPTION DRIVEN AI which, um, has... depending on the station a unique voiceline or a generic one...
Subsumption AI Flight Controller:
There! Should be waiting for you in the hangar!
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
...and you will talk only specifically to that AI and that will give the response.
So there is an air traffic controller entity which is a combined version of the SEATS that we already have and the useable system other designers are working on, and the AI will basically sit down and then have SENSORS or FEELERS you could say, um... to... check how many ships are in the radius, what ships request LANDING, what pads are free, what are occupied, what are the DIFFERENT stations of occupation of these pads and then will according to that, will address landing pads to players.
There's a couple of (inaudible) ones for special stations like LEVSKI or GRIM HEX or PORT OLISAR and there's also like a GENERIC one, a GENERIC computer system which also picks up if there's for whatever reason, no flight operator available. Because our flight operators are actually like physically placed in the station, so... you could basically stand in the station, see him talking to someone and whoever is on the ship will see the same thing. So it's a... uh... ONE TO ONE TRANSITION.
Let's say that station gets attacked or that guy is out of an emergency or whatever, he's not there, we have a BACKUP system that picks up with just a generic computer voice and that will handle the flight operation then.
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
If you think about it we have a big amount of content to get, you know, like a big piece of cake, the SPONGE is the primary... the BIG PART of what we do. But there's also... cake needs some ICING, needs some FLAVOR, and so we... we... like to... ah... um... you know... have a giant, general sort of VOICE SET that is used across the... the... the GALAXY, and we also like to have some nice specific characters that are placed in locations and give a good flavor to certain things like for instance, LEVSKI, we have a general ATC but we also have this flight ops dude in um... in LEVSKI that's kind of like a California dude like me
Flight Ops California Dude AI:
Hey there! On behalf of the People's Alliance, WELCOOOOME to Levksi! The name's (inaudible), I run the hangars here which is GREAT for you 'cos you're prob'ly lookin' to land!
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
He's a good character and he provides a lot of good character to that... to that LANDING SPACE, and uh... it's FUN for players to enjoy that specific character set rather than having a... just a big universe of... always general, you know characters running around.
WARNING Verbal diarrhea incoming
This is the single most surreal transcript I have done to date.
Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Sep 21, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV2qhhtsMA0
@ 09:58
Mike Jones (Director of Corporate and Publishing Technology):
My team is responsible for DIGITAL PUBLISHING, and with 3.0 imminent we've been doing a lot of work to, uh... ENHANCE OUR SYSTEMS AND EXPAND OUR CAPABILITIES, and so I feel like we're ready to PUBLISH, uh... pretty much ANYTIME, uh... we get a selected build that's READY TO GO
@ 15:00
Carlos Pla Pueyo (Gameplay Programmer):
With the air traffic controller we have tried to ah... get a FEELING of a REALISTIC SITUATION, so... when REAL LIFE when you have different PLANES coming to an airport you need some kind of CONTROL, you need RULES, you need a way of making sure that everything is going to PLAN. So we have been trying to get the same behavior in... in a STAR CITIZEN so... up to now when you approaching a station you just have to... LAND and that's it. Now, you have to REQUEST landing which implies a communication with SOMEONE, an NPC which can be a REAL NPC or a AUTOMATIC VOICE...
Automatic Voice:
One hangar comin' up!
Carlos Pla Pueyo:
...telling you where you can LAND, or if there's no space available or anything like that. And there's also a controller were how much you can stay in a landing pad, eh... like security measures and so on.
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
Right now players can just land everywhere they want, there is nothing controlling them, there is nothing saying, 'oh you should PARK HERE', there's no rules to that, and we needed to find a system that basically co ordinates landing, taking off, and also creating more IMMERSION on what actually like flight controllers are.
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
The CONCEPT behind our game is to be very REALISTIC in what we do, so we do a lot of research in anything that goes on and especially... that DEFINITELY does not uh... uh... leave out the air traffic controllers, so we've done a lot of RESEARCH into what air traffic controllers DO. When... when we were ON SET in... in... and ah... FILMING and PCAP it... it was... it was really important you know cos the game was... er... really much FILMED LIKE A MOVIE and as we... as we went about TRACKING and trying to manage and maintain the CONTENT it was very clear that we needed to focus on the IMPLEMENTATION side and to use that as a way to track how the... the PCAP should be cut up and the way it should be ORGANIZED so... UTILIZING THAT BACKGROUND OF IMPLEMENTATION I made sure that we TRACKED OUR PCAP in a way that was ultimately feasible to edit... edit the project and... and... and... and uh... actually track how... how it was being cut up and... and uh... and... on... on the uh... on the EDITING BOARD.
It's really a BEHAVIORAL THING and so while we can record all the context and all the different dialogue that we want, it really becomes... you know it really comes down to our SYSTEMS to really be able to handle it, and yeah, our engineering team is just phenomenal, they... they are really pushing the boundary of what AI can really HANDLE, and making it a really systemic... ah... ah... MODULE OF BEHAVIOR so it's not just like, you know, 'oh these guys do this thing or whatever', it's a real AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER MODULE that... that... that... that's DEFINING all of these BEHAVIORS and... and... and it's not even just ONE VOICE that's defining the whole BALLET of all the different, you know, PEOPLE DOIN' ALL THE SIGNALS and the AI is saying, 'you can GO and you have to TAKE OFF or you can LAND, you go HERE', you know, all those kind of things... it's... it's... it's... it's a WHOLE BALLET of all these uh... uh... CHARACTERS involved.
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
Well one of the more complicated things is that it's not working like in REAL LIFE where everyone behaves as they should be, right? So it's still a GAME and players so what they WANT sometimes, so we need to make sure to have RULES in place which allow players to actually have an IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE but also don't abuse other players as well and have like, PUNISHMENT almost, um... when they not follow the RULES
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
You have to account for the silly stupid things like a player strafing the station, or uh, flying too close and you know they have to react in a way it's... it, eh... you know... it ah... ah... it's both HELPFUL to the player haha, let's not do that haha! But, eh... but it's also... it's... it's... it's a GAME you know, it HAPPENS and it's FUN, ENTERTAINING.
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
So every flight controller is its own AI. When you hailing a tower to request landing or takeoff, you're gonna be in contact with an actual SUBSUMPTION DRIVEN AI which, um, has... depending on the station a unique voiceline or a generic one...
Subsumption AI Flight Controller:
There! Should be waiting for you in the hangar!
Benjamin Anders (System Designer):
...and you will talk only specifically to that AI and that will give the response.
So there is an air traffic controller entity which is a combined version of the SEATS that we already have and the useable system other designers are working on, and the AI will basically sit down and then have SENSORS or FEELERS you could say, um... to... check how many ships are in the radius, what ships request LANDING, what pads are free, what are occupied, what are the DIFFERENT stations of occupation of these pads and then will according to that, will address landing pads to players.
There's a couple of (inaudible) ones for special stations like LEVSKI or GRIM HEX or PORT OLISAR and there's also like a GENERIC one, a GENERIC computer system which also picks up if there's for whatever reason, no flight operator available. Because our flight operators are actually like physically placed in the station, so... you could basically stand in the station, see him talking to someone and whoever is on the ship will see the same thing. So it's a... uh... ONE TO ONE TRANSITION.
Let's say that station gets attacked or that guy is out of an emergency or whatever, he's not there, we have a BACKUP system that picks up with just a generic computer voice and that will handle the flight operation then.
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
If you think about it we have a big amount of content to get, you know, like a big piece of cake, the SPONGE is the primary... the BIG PART of what we do. But there's also... cake needs some ICING, needs some FLAVOR, and so we... we... like to... ah... um... you know... have a giant, general sort of VOICE SET that is used across the... the... the GALAXY, and we also like to have some nice specific characters that are placed in locations and give a good flavor to certain things like for instance, LEVSKI, we have a general ATC but we also have this flight ops dude in um... in LEVSKI that's kind of like a California dude like me
Flight Ops California Dude AI:
Hey there! On behalf of the People's Alliance, WELCOOOOME to Levksi! The name's (inaudible), I run the hangars here which is GREAT for you 'cos you're prob'ly lookin' to land!
Bob Rissolo (Dialogue Supervisor):
He's a good character and he provides a lot of good character to that... to that LANDING SPACE, and uh... it's FUN for players to enjoy that specific character set rather than having a... just a big universe of... always general, you know characters running around.
Well yeah. It changes SC from a space flight game to a waiting game. What more could you ever ask for?
Also, for anyone unfamiliar with the term, the reason I struck out “simulation” and opted for “simulacrum” instead is because of good old Baudrillard: a simulation is an attempt to replicate the real; a simulacrum is a replication of something that has no connection to any kind of reality. At best, it can be a replication of something that's already a (flawed) simulation.
Nothing CIG does is simulation. It either simply does not simulate what it's supposed to (eg. the “physics” engine and the flight model, both of which are completely devoid of any kind of real physics), or they simulate some Hollywood conception of how things would work (ATC being “busy elsewhere” or having “real holograms”). Either way, they are simulacra of some wholly, and possibly wilfully, misinformed notions of how things should work. That is, in and of itself, not inherently bad — no matter how much old Mr. B disagrees — as long as it serves some other useful purpose. Game simulacra for the intent of entertainment or or user friendliness or for just not wasting everyone's time are perfectly acceptable substitutes for something more sim oriented. But CIG seems to consistently not do that.
Instead, they pick these solutions for some warped notion of “fidelity” because that's somehow better than gameplay. That would be true if they were taking the simulation route. But they're not. It's all simulacra. It is inherently and by very definition devoid of fidelity because there is no real referent to be fidelitous to. Chris saw something neat in a film once and he wants it in his game because that would make it more “realistic”… somewhere along the line forgetting that films are real and that what he needs to focus on is making a game, not a movie. Gameplay trumps everything. Doubly so since his attempt at making a movie was arguably the low-point in his creative career, whereas his games were… well… passable, at least, even if they're from an ancient era.
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You don't need all that rubbish, a voice telling you which pad to go to like we have in ED is enough
But E: D voice hasn't so many fidels crammed in it!
But E: D voice hasn't so many fidels crammed in it!
ED voices is just being....in-fidel! (bumba dish)
......I will take my coat.
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