Thargoid Material CGs: Why the easymode options?!?!

[Ashnak]

In a nutshell, because trade CGs seem to be aimed at the min/max cr/hr types who after nearly three years still think flying a unshielded type 6 in open is a good idea.

Well, not a T-6, but both a Keelback and a T-7 are sufficiently resilient with the right loadout to run cargo shieldless. For an extreme (of course...) setup, check Rinzler's T-9.

Right loadout in this case means Military armour and everything snipable B-rated with resistance mods. As long as the pirates stay in character, that's good enough to survive until the FSD kicks in.

 

[Stealthie]

Have to say, I agree with the OP.

I really enjoy playing around with Thargoid stuff (and I've built a ship for that specific purpose) and it's not like I'm short of credits either but, with regard to these CGs, there's not really any compulsion to collect Thargoid stuff in preference to regular commodities.

If you're just in it for the credits then you can probably earn them a lot easier by hauling regular commodities and if you want to see the CG succeed then the best way to achieve that is by hauling regular commodities too.

Ideally, I guess it'd be nice if there was some kind of secondary factor for each commodity required by a CG so that, for example, hauling 1t of Thargoid stuff would move the CG 0.01% closer to it's goal whereas hauling 1t of regular commodities would only move it, say, 0.001% closer to the goal.

At least that'd create some "dilemma" for players; they'd have to decide whether to go for personal gain or whether to assist the CG as much as possible.
Ideally, of course, the rewards for each item should reflect their value to the CG so that should also be balanced.


It's a shame really because, judging by a lot of the posts in the CG threads, a lot of CMDRs haven't yet visited the Thargoid sites out of simple curiosity and these CGs could have created a compelling reason to do so but the way it's been put together means that people can still participate (and good on 'em for doing so) without actually visiting the Thargoid sites.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Initially I was quite excited about this CG, I saw what might be a good profit making opportunity in collecting and transporting the Ancient Relics since that would be clear profit and not too much grindy travel. So I did some investigation and worked out if you took the time to fill a Cutter up to 700t (which would take a long time) you'd only net 8.4M cr in profit + global rewards [knocked out]

Logged off at that point, you might as well transport the Resonating Separators at 1.5M cr a hop and die of boredom in the process.

Though I did enjoy the investigation so it wasn't completely shallow gameplay CG [smile], I think it would be more interesting to UA bomb one of the stations than follow the CG recipes.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
ENGINEER APPEAL FOR THARGOID MATERIALS!
…

"...and explosives"... whaaaaaaaaaaaaat ??

…
This is a pretty dumb selection of goods for both CGs
…

My reaction was:

"Thargoid materials? Hasn't FD learned a bit since the last epic fail CG*?"

Then I read about the standard commodities and thought:
"Oh, they have learned."

While I agree it would be much nicer if only Thargoid items counted for the CG, I think such a CG would simply not work.
Most of the Thargoid stuff is so bugged and fubared that it hurts even to think about it.
Stuff hidden behind broken RNG as a requirement for a CG is a really good way to teach players never to touch anything like that, even with a metaphorical ten feet pole.

In short: The game is bugged and normal commodities are the only thing that works (in most cases).


*) that collect unknown wakes from hyperdictions failure of a CG

 

[Jmanis]

While I agree it would be much nicer if only Thargoid items counted for the CG, I think such a CG would simply not work.
Most of the Thargoid stuff is so bugged and fubared that it hurts even to think about it.
Stuff hidden behind broken RNG as a requirement for a CG is a really good way to teach players never to touch anything like that, even with a metaphorical ten feet pole.

There's no RNG about these commodities? They spawn at every Unknown Thargoid Site, and you don't have to get the "right ones" as they're all accounted for in the CGs.

Grab a UA from a crash site, pick one of the live sites from this spreadsheet and start loading up?

If the CG were just for collecting UPs, you might have a point, the spawn rate on those is pants.

 

[CMDR-AD]

I wish that the CG templates allowed each requested material to be accounted and shown separately. Then, as each individual material reaches higher levels tiers, it's payout/value would drop a bit, shifting the profit focus to the next in line. Plus, for the goal to succeed, you'd need to have all requested commodities delivered to the same tier level.

This would allow mass haulage of the purchased commodities, with the requested tonnage in the millions for the top tier. But for the rare or low quantity items, the requested quantities could be far lower, making a contribution of just 3 to 10 units as important as hauling 1000 units of the purchases commodities.

With Palin's CG, I did consider heading out and trying to collect a few of the Thargoid materials to contribute. But then I must realize that this CG and it's progress appears to be about quantity, which mandates focus on the purchased commodities, to gain those Global Rewards.

An by the way... Regarding the supply/demand around CGs...

It's been months since I did a cargo CG, but I specifically remember my sources beginning to dry up, making me have to shop around for a new source. But in the last 2 cargo CGs I've done, it seems like all the sources have an infinite fixed supply? Did the dynamic production and supply aspect get removed somewhere along the way? Or is Frontier now manually fixing to allow 100% supply all the time?

I hope they aren't fixing supply, having to shop around was one of the few things that added interest and realism to doing the cargo CG runs, IMO.

 

[Kaocraft]

Excellent post, OP, and you're right. Incidentally I consider this a preview of the level of thought, care, and attention that we can expect from 2.4, btw.

 

[BDelacroix]

Some people are just never happy.

 

[Louis Calvert]

Yeah I'm quite annoyed to be honest.

I semi-RP Elite, and I only take part in CG's when my Commander would do, so I've only done ones relating to the Thargs or other mysteries and things since that what I love most about ED.

Same as OP, I was thrilled to see another one asking for Tharg material and Guardian junk, I've been off to Guardian sites collecting Relics with a swing by the Tharg sites to collect 4 Tharg things to fill the corrosive resistant racks.

Sadly though, it seems that the majority of people are just shuttling the explosives in from the adjacent systems, and of course you would, why wouldn't you do that? Why would yo travel 500ly to the Guardian ruins to scoop Relics in a laborious process when you can just travel 1 jump and fill up on explosives... It's a bit mental. While I'm not doing it specifically for the money, it's nice to have a good reward for travelling over 2000ly (2 trips to the Guardian ruins and back) and feel like I've contributed.

IMO, badly thought out CG. Should have been two separate ones for each collection, Alien junk in one, and regular commodities in the other.

 

[Stealthie]

I wish that the CG templates allowed each requested material to be accounted and shown separately. Then, as each individual material reaches higher levels tiers, it's payout/value would drop a bit, shifting the profit focus to the next in line. Plus, for the goal to succeed, you'd need to have all requested commodities delivered to the same tier level.

This would allow mass haulage of the purchased commodities, with the requested tonnage in the millions for the top tier. But for the rare or low quantity items, the requested quantities could be far lower, making a contribution of just 3 to 10 units as important as hauling 1000 units of the purchases commodities.

With Palin's CG, I did consider heading out and trying to collect a few of the Thargoid materials to contribute. But then I must realize that this CG and it's progress appears to be about quantity, which mandates focus on the purchased commodities, to gain those Global Rewards.

An by the way... Regarding the supply/demand around CGs...

It's been months since I did a cargo CG, but I specifically remember my sources beginning to dry up, making me have to shop around for a new source. But in the last 2 cargo CGs I've done, it seems like all the sources have an infinite fixed supply? Did the dynamic production and supply aspect get removed somewhere along the way? Or is Frontier now manually fixing to allow 100% supply all the time?

I hope they aren't fixing supply, having to shop around was one of the few things that added interest and realism to doing the cargo CG runs, IMO.

Yep,

That's exactly the sort of thing I'd like to see implemented, although I can see how it'd probably require quite a bit of work to make it happen and get it all working properly.

Basically, in any CG, there'd be a requirement for, say, items A, B and C.
Initially they might all have equal importance (or not, depending on the circumstances of the CG) and the only concern would be hauling the item which generates the larges profit.
But then, after everybody had decided to haul Item B, the CGs requirement would be met and the profit would drop and you'd have to swap to items A or C instead.

Added to which, the CG wouldn't actually progress in a linear manner unless all the items were being provided sufficiently.
After all, if you need items A, B and C to built, perhaps, a space-station and all you get are items A and B, it shouldn't matter how many of those things you get (beyond your actual requirements) because your station isn't going to get built until you get enough of item C as well.

In the case of these CGs, for example, ideally it'd be nice if providing millions of tonnes of regular commodities could only get the CG up to, say, level 2 or 3 and it'd require a couple of thousand tonnes of Alien doodads to get it the rest of the way - and the selling prices for the respective items should reflect that.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

There's no RNG about these commodities? They spawn at every Unknown Thargoid Site, and you don't have to get the "right ones" as they're all accounted for in the CGs.

Grab a UA from a crash site, pick one of the live sites from this spreadsheet and start loading up?

If the CG were just for collecting UPs, you might have a point, the spawn rate on those is pants.

I thought that UPs would be required and had forgotten that UAs are available at crash sites.

Thanks for the information and correcting my mistake.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

What is the sale price of the Unknown Thargoid items running atm?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Why do you think CG's are never exclusively at planet bases?

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Sadly though, it seems that the majority of people are just shuttling the explosives in from the adjacent systems, and of course you would, why wouldn't you do that? Why would yo travel 500ly to the Guardian ruins to scoop Relics in a laborious process when you can just travel 1 jump and fill up on explosives... It's a bit mental. While I'm not doing it specifically for the money, it's nice to have a good reward for travelling over 2000ly (2 trips to the Guardian ruins and back) and feel like I've contributed.

IMO, badly thought out CG. Should have been two separate ones for each collection, Alien junk in one, and regular commodities in the other.

yeah exactly, it only makes sense if you can sell the Alien items at like 200k per item but I bet its nowhere near that which was why I went back to check on the relics (which weren't so great either)

 

[Para Handy]

.....
This is a pretty dumb selection of goods for both CGs

..............

This is so non-Horizons players can take part. Presumably that is also why the CG stations are orbital.

 

[Crank Larson]

Yep I kinda agree. However my though went immediatly to the "Great, they will all be distracting getting supplies from the bubble while I make my millions!". So, to be honest, I don´t really care.

Except you can get all the resonating separators you could want from just next door in Merope. But I agree with your not caring - what other people ferry around doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[Crank Larson]

Initially I was quite excited about this CG, I saw what might be a good profit making opportunity in collecting and transporting the Ancient Relics since that would be clear profit and not too much grindy travel. So I did some investigation and worked out if you took the time to fill a Cutter up to 700t (which would take a long time) you'd only net 8.4M cr in profit + global rewards [knocked out]

I thought that the Thargoid items sold for very high prices (0.5m and higher, depending what you get). This would mean at least 350m profit for a fully loaded Cutter. Rather more than I've ever made from a CG. Of course, the biggest problem is that most Thargoid items are corrosive. Your Cutter would have melted by the time you loaded it up. If you filled it with corrosive resistant racks, you'd only be able to carry 20t or so. Actually, are any Thargoid items not corrosive?

I agree with others that have suggested that the alien items should be worth a lot more to the CG.

 

[Louis Calvert]

I thought that the Thargoid items sold for very high prices (0.5m and higher, depending what you get). This would mean at least 350m profit for a fully loaded Cutter. Rather more than I've ever made from a CG. Of course, the biggest problem is that most Thargoid items are corrosive. Your Cutter would have melted by the time you loaded it up. If you filled it with corrosive resistant racks, you'd only be able to carry 20t or so. Actually, are any Thargoid items not corrosive?

I agree with others that have suggested that the alien items should be worth a lot more to the CG.

The post you reply to was talking about Relics which aren't Tharg items, they are Guardian and are non-corrosive. So you could easily load up on them. But, it would take a looooong time to fill a Cutter since each Guardian Ruins site spawns only 3-5 (or so) Relics, and you need to shuttle them to your ship via SRV, which can only hold two, so it's maybe 5-10 mins work at least to clear the site. Even if you then re-log to refresh the same site (rather than flying several jumps to the next one, then having to land from orbit, etc), it would take a loooong time. Much easier to travel 1 jump to load up with explosives.

It's extremely frustrating. I normally give Fdev the benefit of the doubt but this time I genuinely can't excuse it.

 

[Louis Calvert]

There's no RNG about these commodities? They spawn at every Unknown Thargoid Site, and you don't have to get the "right ones" as they're all accounted for in the CGs.

Grab a UA from a crash site, pick one of the live sites from this spreadsheet and start loading up?

If the CG were just for collecting UPs, you might have a point, the spawn rate on those is pants.

Na you're thinking about something different I think. The ones required by the CG's are just lying on the floor in the outer-most ring of the Tharg sites. They are the items usually requested by Palin from the random Obsidian Orbital missions, you don't need a UA or anything to get them - however they are RNG based since they sometimes just don't spawn at all. I've personally been to two sites today and one site just didn't spawn any of the required items and the second ony only spawned two in the whole site, and I've been to those same sites previously doing Palin's missions and there's been dozens of them lying around. So, either Fdev have inexplicably set up a CG for items that they've reduced the spawn rate for, or, the spawn rate is RNG based and I got unlucky today.

Either way, this CG does suck giant Thargoid abdomens.

 

[Jmanis]

This is so non-Horizons players can take part. Presumably that is also why the CG stations are orbital.

Then they should've made UA's one of the items you can deliver, instead of some market-available good. Unlike UPs, these are available much more abundantly in the 135-150LY shell, sure it's a bit more RNGesus, but hey, go buy Horizons... it's a bit dumb to hamstring your own content development because people didnt buy your dlc and therefore everyone should have access. But hey, i didn't make that choice for FD.

Or they could've had this stuff accessible via in a fixed USS like they've done with salvage CG's in the past. Set up a fixed battle site like the ones we've seen at distress calls and the like and throw three or four of these in the site to pick up. We know the feds have been fighting with them...

FD can and have done literally do all these things in the past.