A Case Against Premium Ammo Synthesis...

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I just had an idea... (how many times do I start a thread with that sentence? Lol)... about premium ammo synthesis.

I personally don't like the idea of magic super ammo. Opinions will, of course, vary.

So, how would you feel if standard and premium ammo synthesis recipes, were actually replaced with....


*Drum roll*




...Simply two alternative recipes, which have the same result?
My idea was to rename 'Basic Ammo Synthesis' to 'Element Ammo Synthesis'.

Then rename 'Standard Ammo Synthesis' to 'Manufactured Ammo Synthesis'.

And 'Premium Ammo Synthesis' to 'Hybrid Ammo Synthesis'...? (Or something)

All 3 create the same ammo, damage damage, etc, but just require different materials to do it.

Element Ammo Synthesis, remains unchanged, and uses elements to synthesise ammo.
Manufactured Ammo Synthesis is changed to synthesise ammo using only manufactured materials.
And Hybrid Ammo Synthesis, can use both, as well as data. (Or something)

It was just a quick idea I had while driving. Haven't thought it through fully yet. Lol

I only thought of it, because I tend to have looooadss of manufactured materials, but constantly run out of elements. But I can only use manufactured materials in engineering, but elements are used in both ammo synthesis and engineering.

And this idea just felt like a logical solution to that. (And the fact I don't like premium ammo. Lol)

Thoughts?

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

My take:

Remove Damage Buffs.

Change them to AMMO BUFFS

basic (rearm 50%)

Standard (rearm 150%) Extra 50%

Premium (Rearm 200%) extra 100% ammo


Also give basic at least 1 more option. that uses something diferent.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

My take:

Remove Damage Buffs.

Change them to AMMO BUFFS

basic (rearm 50%)

Standard (rearm 150%) Extra 50%

Premium (Rearm 200%) extra 100% ammo


Also give basic at least 1 more option. that uses something diferent.

I've suggested that too. Lol

I just wanted to synthesise ammo using more left over scrap, rather than pieces of rocks.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Conch]

think syntesis should go althogether..

replaced by ammo as cargo. and bringing more ammo should bring more risks.
dont want you cargo hatch damaged.. or else..

 

[Redan]

Greetings.

I actually like both of those ideas (3 blueprints with different requirements, each giving the same results OR make the bonuses be ammo increases beyond the usual limits).

Of course this does cause an issue with weapons that have unlimited ammo due to engineering...But I'm sure we can figure something out.

Personally I'd also like to have some major rework to Synthesis as a whole (fingers crossed Oct. 7th?). I'll wait until the expo to harass the forums with my onslaught of ideas

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I've suggested that too. Lol

I just wanted to synthesise ammo using more left over scrap, rather than pieces of rocks.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

Yes but frankly FD is not going to do this. they are too busy making Dinosaurs genitalia. for their "The sims" for dinosaurs.

They dont care all that much for this game anymore.

Greetings.

I actually like both of those ideas (3 blueprints with different requirements, each giving the same results OR make the bonuses be ammo increases beyond the usual limits).

Of course this does cause an issue with weapons that have unlimited ammo due to engineering...But I'm sure we can figure something out.

Personally I'd also like to have some major rework to Synthesis as a whole (fingers crossed Oct. 7th?). I'll wait until the expo to harass the forums with my onslaught of ideas

Well to be fair synthesis should be like Engineering a extensive list of things you can sintesise with various types of bonus..

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

think syntesis should go althogether..

replaced by ammo as cargo. and bringing more ammo should bring more risks.
dont want you cargo hatch damaged.. or else..

I literally just suggested that (except the exploding/losing cargo bit, I did mean to add it, but forgot).

(Resupply Crates)

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

My take:

Remove Damage Buffs.

+9999999999999 hell yes please.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

Why the issue with the current synth results? If anything, having something that changes factors like reload time would be harder to finding any logic behind, whereas premium ammo that increases damage and even range is not only logical, but a reality today.

I can buy different ammo today of the same caliber for the same weapon that each have different ranges and damage levels. The simplest example is 100 grain vs 150 grain rounds for a .30-06. Another is for shotguns, with birdshot, vs slugs, vs varying pellet counts.

 

[Troy_McClure]

My take:

Remove Damage Buffs.

Change them to AMMO BUFFS

basic (rearm 50%)

Standard (rearm 150%) Extra 50%

Premium (Rearm 200%) extra 100% ammo


Also give basic at least 1 more option. that uses something diferent.

I 100% approve of this message +1

All PvPers with the time use premium ammo - even if they claim they don't!

Ooooh that's a provocative statement with no proof available, I hear you cry!

Well consider this...given that many PvPers have horrendous egos that would put Cristiano Ronaldo's in the shade; so much so, that to appear better at fighting with pretend spaceships ( [haha] ) are prepared to re-roll 100s (even 1000s of times) for that extra few percent of a god roll - but those same players come across as indignant about the advantages of a couple of hours collecting the mats for prem ammo & wouldn't ever dream of taking advantage of a non-identifiable method of gaining +30% damage on all weapons, out of principle - yeah, right!

I personally lament the great days of self-replenishing premium ammo for my fixed multis (before it was fixed) where I had to find the mats once...that was it & I never had to worry about this steaming pile of crap game-play ever again, simply to gain parity with those just cruising around in FDLs/FASs looking to kill players!

Over the last two weekends, I have engineered frags & plasmas for my Vulture & obviously wanted some premium ammo too (yeah, I'm up front about it) given that I play in open, only to discover that premium for frags requires 8 units of one mat - zinc, I think - in addition to the others, per weapons replen!! (& this doesn't include the times when one accidentally restocks everything at stations, thereby wiping all prem ammo) Hahahahaha now some of you may have the time & inclination to drive the SRV about for hours for this, but I sure don't. Hence zero premium ammo for me - that's for my Vulture with just TWO hardpoints; Jesus H, I can only imagine the grind for a FGS!

Please, please change damage buffs to ammo buffs as has been proposed by one luminary here! This would kill two birds with one stone as ammo limits are simply ludicrous since engineers changed everything in terms of thermal/kinetic damage & shield/hull hit points.

Transmission ends...

 

[Morbad]

All PvPers with the time use premium ammo - even if they claim they don't!

I have the time, but I have better things to do with my materials, so I don't (and I can prove I don't if I need to).

However, I don't have any problem with those that do, as long as they aren't abusing bug exploits to retain premium ammo after they should. When such bugs are known, one should avoid using premium ammo, or make sure they manually apply a basic reload to remove it.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Why the issue with the current synth results? If anything, having something that changes factors like reload time would be harder to finding any logic behind, whereas premium ammo that increases damage and even range is not only logical, but a reality today.

I can buy different ammo today of the same caliber for the same weapon that each have different ranges and damage levels. The simplest example is 100 grain vs 150 grain rounds for a .30-06. Another is for shotguns, with birdshot, vs slugs, vs varying pellet counts.

Ammo types with balanced trade offs would be fine IMHO.
High damage/low range or visa versa..
High penetration/low hull damage or visa versa
High Explosive/poor guidance or range.
Stuff like that works.

But just a magical +30% damage because you spent a while hoovering up rocks is not good balance. Lol

 

[Troy_McClure]

I have the time, but I have better things to do with my materials, so I don't (and I can prove I don't if I need to).

However, I don't have any problem with those that do, as long as they aren't abusing bug exploits to retain premium ammo after they should. When such bugs are known, one should avoid using premium ammo, or make sure they manually apply a basic reload to remove it.

Well I'm sure there are exceptions that prove the rule ('prove' meaning test, ofc) & if you are not BSing, then good for you!

As far as legitimate replens are concerned - Bollox to that! You have been caught up in the alternate reality of 'Elite normality' again!

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

You want to make TTK even longer?

Strong Disagree.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

Ammo types with balanced trade offs would be fine IMHO.
High damage/low range or visa versa..
High penetration/low hull damage or visa versa
High Explosive/poor guidance or range.
Stuff like that works.

But just a magical +30% damage because you spent a while hoovering up rocks is not good balance. Lol

Again, premium ammo resulting in a simple increase in damage is nowhere near "magical" as I can go to Walmart right now and purchase ammo that does x amount of damage, or I can pay a little more for ammo that will do x + y% more damage, where the difference in damage is a result of increased weight/grains of powder in the shell. I can spend a little more, and purchase ammo that has an entirely different bullet/projectile, which can be a different material or completely different manufacturing process, i.e. full metal jacket (lead encased in copper), softshell (wrapped in copper except for tip), hollow point (similar to FMJ/softshell combo, but copper tip is open and not filled with lead), and ballistic tip (polymer tip).

Differences in the bullet such as these only affect how the bullet impacts the target, but not range or velocity. Softshells and hollow points will mushroom when hitting softer targets, which means the diameter of the penetration will expand as the projetile travels, doing more damage and a larger exit wound if there is one, whereas FMJ rounds are more likely to retain shape and pass through soft targets, and will have greater penetration on harder targets.

Even if we're looking at something as extreeme as standard cannon ammo vs depleted uranium, where the projectile would have far more mass than the standard round, and while that results in far more damage and penetrating power, it would also require more explosive power to get it moving, but if we're making premium ammo of depleted uranium we would also be making a longer shell to hold the additional powder required to achieve the same velocity.

So today, in real life, different materials are used to produce ammuntion with increased damage.

I do think it would be helpful if there were some explaination or description of the different ammo being produced to clear up this perception that using additional and/ore different materials to produce more powerful ammunition is somehow magical.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Again, premium ammo resulting in a simple increase in damage is nowhere near "magical" as I can go to Walmart right now and purchase ammo that does x amount of damage, or I can pay a little more for ammo that will do x + y% more damage, where the difference in damage is a result of increased weight/grains of powder in the shell. I can spend a little more, and purchase ammo that has an entirely different bullet/projectile, which can be a different material or completely different manufacturing process, i.e. full metal jacket (lead encased in copper), softshell (wrapped in copper except for tip), hollow point (similar to FMJ/softshell combo, but copper tip is open and not filled with lead), and ballistic tip (polymer tip).

Differences in the bullet such as these only affect how the bullet impacts the target, but not range or velocity. Softshells and hollow points will mushroom when hitting softer targets, which means the diameter of the penetration will expand as the projetile travels, doing more damage and a larger exit wound if there is one, whereas FMJ rounds are more likely to retain shape and pass through soft targets, and will have greater penetration on harder targets.

Even if we're looking at something as extreeme as standard cannon ammo vs depleted uranium, where the projectile would have far more mass than the standard round, and while that results in far more damage and penetrating power, it would also require more explosive power to get it moving, but if we're making premium ammo of depleted uranium we would also be making a longer shell to hold the additional powder required to achieve the same velocity.

So today, in real life, different materials are used to produce ammuntion with increased damage.

I do think it would be helpful if there were some explaination or description of the different ammo being produced to clear up this perception that using additional and/ore different materials to produce more powerful ammunition is somehow magical.

Er... NO...

FMJ ammo is used for piercing trough Vests. On unprotected Bodies they HAVE LESS stooping power than a Hollow point 'cause most of the newton force would past straight out of the body. And a hollow point has MORE stooping power than a FJM on unprotected bodies but they don't do that well against vests.

So I call on that. every munition has specific usage and trade off it's not straight out upgrade.

The same way you can't say that a Lead slug is just an Upgrade of the buckshot. They are different ammunition with different purposes.

And Even more Please never say again that "Differences in the bullet such as these only affect how the bullet impacts the target"

Weight of the bullet, Aerodynamic coefficient , Supersonic aerodynamic, Volume of the discharge (subsonic rounds)

There are Hundreds of ways a different projectile type can influence on Much more than The different Impact on the target. for example a subsonic round has way less range over a hypersonic one.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

I like the idea of premium ammo, but that's probably because I'm an avid shooter and have the ability to do custom load with my reloading station. Also they sell the higher velocity and different grain size at the store as well so maybe just have stations sell the stuff at a higher price as well. If they did change the effects from sythesis though i think the effect should be a vhoice of armor penetration or damage.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

Er... NO...

FMJ ammo is used for piercing trough Vests. On unprotected Bodies they HAVE LESS stooping power than a Hollow point 'cause most of the newton force would past straight out of the body. And a hollow point has MORE stooping power than a FJM on unprotected bodies but they don't do that well against vests.

So I call on that. every munition has specific usage and trade off it's not straight out upgrade.

The same way you can't say that a Lead slug is just an Upgrade of the buckshot. They are different ammunition with different purposes.

And Even more Please never say again that "Differences in the bullet such as these only affect how the bullet impacts the target"

Weight of the bullet, Aerodynamic coefficient , Supersonic aerodynamic, Volume of the discharge (subsonic rounds)

There are Hundreds of ways a different projectile type can influence on Much more than The different Impact on the target. for example a subsonic round has way less range over a hypersonic one.

I literally say that FMJ will better retain shape and pass through soft targets, and that softshells and hollow points will do more damage on soft targets, to which you "call me on that" by countering that FMJ have less stopping power (albeit in all caps) than hollow point against soft targets because they will just pass right through...

Brilliant.

So, assume same bullets but with different grains yeild different muzzle velocities and impact force. If anything then, "perimum" ammo should not only increase damage, and should also increase range and velocity. If I'm using more or better materials to manufacture ammunitiom that will perform better against amor, how does that concept contridict anything I said before or that you posted?

But yeah, you totally schooled me by explaining how different munittions are better suited for different roles, and that "premium ammo" couldn't possibly equal increased damage due to producing better munittions for the job.

Tard.