I'm going to start advocating for improved PvE criminal gameplay.

[Deleted member 110222]

I like PvP piracy, but... Eh. The toxicity I've been receiving in the past few weeks has been unbearable. No, you won't recall it me being me who interdicted you if you were flying a Hauler, or if you interdicted me. I don't have the name "Un1k0rn" in-game anymore, and I'm not going to tell you my new name in full. Just pointing that out.

It's important to remember that in human encounters, every individual's experience will be different.

Now my problem isn't loggers. It's the verbal attacks I've been subjected to. Don't worry, all instances were reported. That isn't the point of this thread, other than it's why I'm making a change of stance on criminal gameplay. I'm no longer going to play in Open, as I don't wish to be insulted simply for playing a game.

With my change of stance however, I have a new cause to take, and that cause is to advocate improvements for PvE criminal gameplay. I invite everyone to join the discussions that I hope to start in the near future.

I don't expect anyone to care, and really, my message is, does anyone else want to see vast improvements to PvE criminal gameplay?

Have fun, whatever mode you play.

 

[Crank Larson]

I don't expect anyone to care, and really, my message is, does anyone else want to see vast improvements to PvE criminal gameplay?

I certainly wouldn't object. But then, I also wouldn't object to you pirating me either. I don't object to a lot, really. But improvements are always welcome, and it'll be very interesting to see if the changes in 2.4 affect anything in Open (or anywhere else, for that matter).

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I certainly wouldn't object. But then, I also wouldn't object to you pirating me either. I don't object to a lot, really. But improvements are always welcome, and it'll be very interesting to see if the changes in 2.4 affect anything in Open (or anywhere else, for that matter).

Oh that's fine. I want to carry on PvP piracy, which by the way, I'm terrible at, but the personal attacks are getting too much for me.

I hope to have some ideas soon to start discussions on.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

what kind of piracy are you talking about?

the murderous serial killer that just shoots down ships for the thrill,
or the one that tries to make his living by getting his hands on the cargo of the victim?

 

[Schmack]

3 things that would need to happen to make it worth my while:

1. Cargo ships with actual cargo that you can pirate (ships that will dump cargo when you request, a high percentage of the time)
2. Stop getting insta-wanted status. The instance itself can have an emergency call, but to peg you as wanted before you even drop out of SC is too much. The only reason you should become wanted is if system security detects you breaking the law. Otherwise, you should just be stopped and searched based on reports, but not instantly "kill on sight" based on hearsay.
3. For Open, don't differentiate between NPC and PC ships on the sensors. I know the different symbols allow you to avoid interaction against or with PC ships, but the opposite is also true - it allows griefers the ability to target only PC ships. You should be part of the background, your odds of being interdicted by a PC ship shouldn't be greater just because you're also a PC ship.

 

[Tuzmaal]

Is this the daily "These are my 2cents to Open" thread ?

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Is this the daily "These are my 2cents to Open" thread ?

Partially. There's absolutely no way I can deny that. But I also made it clear that my real desire is to discuss PvE criminal gameplay. The Open stuff was simply why I've shifted stance. Sue me.

 

[Crank Larson]

Is this the daily "These are my 2cents to Open" thread ?

Well, not really. Given that the OP has specifically stated it's to do with PvE piracy.

EDIT: I was wrong. Well how about that. I'll get my coat.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

3 things that would need to happen to make it worth my while:

1. Cargo ships with actual cargo that you can pirate (ships that will dump cargo when you request, a high percentage of the time)
2. Stop getting insta-wanted status. The instance itself can have an emergency call, but to peg you as wanted before you even drop out of SC is too much. The only reason you should become wanted is if system security detects you breaking the law. Otherwise, you should just be stopped and searched based on reports, but not instantly "kill on sight" based on hearsay.
3. For Open, don't differentiate between NPC and PC ships on the sensors. I know the different symbols allow you to avoid interaction against or with PC ships, but the opposite is also true - it allows griefers the ability to target only PC ships. You should be part of the background, your odds of being interdicted by a PC ship shouldn't be greater just because you're also a PC ship.

An extremely interesting post, and I think the real start of this discussion. Thank you and +rep.

 

[Robert Maynard]

3. For Open, don't differentiate between NPC and PC ships on the sensors. I know the different symbols allow you to avoid interaction against or with PC ships, but the opposite is also true - it allows griefers the ability to target only PC ships. You should be part of the background, your odds of being interdicted by a PC ship shouldn't be greater just because you're also a PC ship.

What about players that don't want to engage in PvP? They would have no way of telling whether the ship was player or NPC if the scanner differentiation was removed.

Instantly identifying players (in scanner range) works both ways - the potential target is aware that there are other players in the instance.

Plus, it's trivial to determine whether there are other players in an instance - the game provided bandwidth monitor being one of the ways.

 

[Schmack]

What about players that don't want to engage in PvP? They would have no way of telling whether the ship was player or NPC if the scanner differentiation was removed.

Instantly identifying players (in scanner range) works both ways - the potential target is aware that there are other players in the instance.

Plus, it's trivial to determine whether there are other players in an instance - the game provided bandwidth monitor being one of the ways.

Once you scan the ship the CMDR name will appear. You don't shoot at radar images anyhow.

 

[LaVie]

If this trend continues, FDevs will need to rename open in "SOLO Nr.2" to not lead new players to the impression they could actually meet other players. I understand both sides, the killers who have fun dooing PvP (which is perfectly fine and is to be supported) and the more peacefull ones who dont like unforeseen situations or (like you) made some bad experiences in Open. But if that infinite discussion is not solved soon, it will hurt both sides, because E will get more and more negative reviews and less recommendations to play. That will result in sale drops and eventually in fewer patches. And I dont quite get how changing to Solo protects you from verbal assaults? Not killing poor Haulers does. And when some guy in his high-end python is combat logging or flaming like a 12 year old kid, just keep reporting. Im lucky to be able to say that I never had such situations before in Open, I never really meet players at all. But thanks to the radar, Im always able to read his intentions. And if hes just a serial killer with no "piracy" in mind, I dont mind changing modes until I reach my next destination. But nonetheless, that still leaves FD open for (just) critizism about not properly handling the issue at hand. Where are all the PvP-loving PK-Killers by the way? Its high time you delivered some ganking to the gankers

Sorry for text wall

 

[Schmack]

If this trend continues, FDevs will need to rename open in "SOLO Nr.2" to not lead new players to the impression they could actually meet other players. I understand both sides, the killers who have fun dooing PvP (which is perfectly fine and is to be supported) and the more peacefull ones who dont like unforeseen situations or (like you) made some bad experiences in Open. But if that infinite discussion is not solved soon, it will hurt both sides, because E will get more and more negative reviews and less recommendations to play. That will result in sale drops and eventually in fewer patches. And I dont quite get how changing to Solo protects you from verbal assaults? Not killing poor Haulers does. And when some guy in his high-end python is combat logging or flaming like a 12 year old kid, just keep reporting. Im lucky to be able to say that I never had such situations before in Open, I never really meet players at all. But thanks to the radar, Im always able to read his intentions. And if hes just a serial killer with no "piracy" in mind, I dont mind changing modes until I reach my next destination. But nonetheless, that still leaves FD open for (just) critizism about not properly handling the issue at hand. Where are all the PvP-loving PK-Killers by the way? Its high time you delivered some ganking to the gankers

Sorry for text wall

The thread isn't about meeting other players. It's about wanting to have a criminal career but the game not really supporting it for anything except forced PvP that leads to undesirable interactions. If pirating is legit (there is a black market and the mechanics exist) then the game should support it in all modes.

More and more the game is getting away from the criminal career to the "Thargoid Hunters" career. It seems every patch has something to make it harder and harder to be an outlaw, with magical insta-knowledge of every hostile act you engage in being felt at the stations right away, no real cargo (just materials) and no way to support your criminal career other than the illegal missions.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Once you scan the ship the CMDR name will appear. You don't shoot at radar images anyhow.

Ah - that bit was missing from the proposal.

 

[Mohrgan]

2. Stop getting insta-wanted status. The instance itself can have an emergency call, but to peg you as wanted before you even drop out of SC is too much. The only reason you should become wanted is if system security detects you breaking the law. Otherwise, you should just be stopped and searched based on reports, but not instantly "kill on sight" based on hearsay.

To this point I would like to point out that Interdicting a clean ship is a crime. You are detected in SC, of firing your interdictor and committing a crime. It is reported by the victim's systems, with the 'Report Crimes' toggle on, and not with the toggle off.

With that point out of the way, I can definitely get behind the notion of fleshing out PvE Criminality. Just as Exploration needs some attention, so does Smuggling, Murdering, and Prating. There has to be a way for hardened criminals to fill their coffers, and enjoy the doing of it.

Keeping PvE crime out of the PF hands, so crime stays local, is a good start. Improving the cargo found on NPC ships has to be a starting point for the piracy issue. One has to be able to pay the bills, and get ahead, or the venture becomes pointless. The same can be said for Smuggling. There has to be a profit in doing it, but at this point, there needs to be more challenge in it, to ask to earn more. Murdering is the easy part, putting more game play, and consequences into it would be important going forward.

I play as a good guy, but that's just me. I don;t dream up ways to make crime more engaging normally. So, I'll leave the deeper suggestions to those with a hand in. But, this is a cause worth supporting.

 

[ChiefRedCloud]

3 things that would need to happen to make it worth my while:

1. Cargo ships with actual cargo that you can pirate (ships that will dump cargo when you request, a high percentage of the time)
2. Stop getting insta-wanted status. The instance itself can have an emergency call, but to peg you as wanted before you even drop out of SC is too much. The only reason you should become wanted is if system security detects you breaking the law. Otherwise, you should just be stopped and searched based on reports, but not instantly "kill on sight" based on hearsay.
3. For Open, don't differentiate between NPC and PC ships on the sensors. I know the different symbols allow you to avoid interaction against or with PC ships, but the opposite is also true - it allows griefers the ability to target only PC ships. You should be part of the background, your odds of being interdicted by a PC ship shouldn't be greater just because you're also a PC ship.

These are, interesting points. I can't say I have much to add to this discussion other than I have no problem with a pirate in role play intridicting me. That, is role play. But the very idea, and I appoligize for straying from your topic, that space or the stars are littered with physcotic killers, just escapes me. Yea I get that even in the future they can exists. But in any society they are an exception and NOT a rule.

Role play that I, personally, acknowledge that includes killing are, bounty hunting (for a legal warrant), assassin (on a contract), military action (if we had such) or law enforcement (as directed though we do not have this).

But as for abusive responses when you get intridicted by a legitimate pirate in role play or at all, is unneeded and should be looked at seriously as unprovoked senseless killing of players and calling it role play ... baulderdash ....

Chief

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

To this point I would like to point out that Interdicting a clean ship is a crime. You are detected in SC, of firing your interdictor and committing a crime. It is reported by the victim's systems, with the 'Report Crimes' toggle on, and not with the toggle off.

huh? to this point, i thought interdicting someone just gives you a fine.
even shooting a hatchbreaker is AFAIK only worth a fine.

so, unless you open fire on the target, there shouldn't even be a police response.

the question is just... how to get a hatch-breaker mod that is on par with dirty drive 5 mods...

 

[Deleted member 110222]

These are, interesting points. I can't say I have much to add to this discussion other than I have no problem with a pirate in role play intridicting me. That, is role play. But the very idea, and I appoligize for straying from your topic, that space or the stars are littered with physcotic killers, just escapes me. Yea I get that even in the future they can exists. But in any society they are an exception and NOT a rule.

Role play that I, personally, acknowledge that includes killing are, bounty hunting (for a legal warrant), assassin (on a contract), military action (if we had such) or law enforcement (as directed though we do not have this).

But as for abusive responses when you get intridicted by a legitimate pirate in role play or at all, is unneeded and should be looked at seriously as unprovoked senseless killing of players and calling it role play ... baulderdash ....

Chief

And it's the verbal assaults I've gotten sick of. No more player interaction for me. I'm done with the abuse.

 

[Mohrgan]

huh? to this point, i thought interdicting someone just gives you a fine.
even shooting a hatchbreaker is AFAIK only worth a fine.

so, unless you open fire on the target, there shouldn't even be a police response.

the question is just... how to get a hatch-breaker mod that is on par with dirty drive 5 mods...

A fine comes from committing the crime of Assault. It may not come with an automatic bounty, it's been a very long time since I interdicted anything clean, but for the sake of the player being interdicted, he gets the right to fire back right away. So, it's enough to excuse the interdicted for taking the bounty.

 

[Jmanis]

Ever since being Hostile was made a pure punishment state (locked out of stations owned by that faction), I've always wanted to see being Hostile improved, which overlaps with PVE crime in that it generally involves going to the neighbouring system where the people you don't like are, and start being a nuisance.