PvP Balance Big Ships

Gewinnste

G
Dear CMDRs,

I would like to say that the current state of the game regarding big ships in PvP is unacceptable in my opinion. I can pretty comfortably lkill a CMDR in an Anaconda with my Corvette while an FDL or even a single Vulture is able to kill me - this needs to be changed! Why are only small and mid-sized ships viable in PvP?

PvP is implicitly the end goal of the game (there's a reason why combat rank is placed first in the list of ranks and PvP obviously outmatches PvE) and there should be a place for big ships.

E.g. 8A sensors should be able to do more than 4A sensors - much more. Now, they cost lots more, way lots more and don't do anything more! Why not make 8A sensors (and the other grades accordingly) more capable of dealing with chaff and silent running?

This alone would fix pretty much most of the imbalance.

Thank you very much for your input, in advance.

Very best regards, Felix Tritschler (CMDR Gewinnste)
 

Nero Tacitus

Nero Tacitus
You're getting destroyed by smaller ships because .... your sensors aren't big enough.

Firstly, larger sensors increase the base range at which an average target can be resolved. My Corvette can resolve a target at 7.6Km, while my FDL can only resolve them at 6.7Km. Not a big difference, but there is one, and it translates into better tracking against colder targets.
Second, if you're struggling against chaff/silent, perhaps you should think about adding some fixed mounts. I run 2xPA and 2xRails for when my gimbals can't track. Chaff = largely irrelevant. Silent, I can still hit them with rails AND gimbals (no target).
Third, how would better tracking fix all of the problems? That's a bit of an over-statement, don't you think?
 

vampireuk

vampireuk
The vulture is a small agile ship with quite a punch to it, of course you are going to have trouble against it in a larger ship. If you are having issues with chaff then switch to fixed mounts and you can shoot them as much as you like.
 

concentric

concentric
vampireuk said:
The vulture is a small agile ship with quite a punch to it, of course you are going to have trouble against it in a larger ship. If you are having issues with chaff then switch to fixed mounts and you can shoot them as much as you like.
Click to expand...

And if you bring a well trained fixed weapons fighter you have an even smaller and more agile ship at your side which at the very least can distract your opponents for a while depending on their weapons loadout (most unlikely seeker missiles in case of the Vulture), making it easier for you to attack.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Elite is carefully balanced so that the better pilot (assuming equally well considered loadouts and engineering for pure combat) will win, almost no matter what the size difference. This one of elites very best features.
 

Gorr

Gorr
I can totally see OP's point regarding sensors... Having 450t sensor on Corvette should make much more difference against silent running ships compared to ships with smaller sensors.

I can't really agree that this part is well balanced.
 

Gewinnste

G
Dear All,

I can't believe that I get almost no support for what's the elefant in the room. Look at forum threads on what ships to use in PvP and the consensus is that big ships aren't viable - instead small or mid sized ships with crippling first strike damage (which they just shouldn't get to have - more on that later). So there you have it: PvP is abolutely NOT balanced!

The game is currently a bit unrewarding and even boring for me because PvP is such a mess.
A couple of additional points in this regard, also relating to the answers I received, in no specific order:

1. I can destroy pretty much anything in PvE with ease in a highly engineered A class Corvette and hold my own against Anacondas in PvP but I lquickly lose in PvP against ONE small ship or an FDL - how does that make any sense?

2. I do already employ fixed weapons but, again, that's far more useful for smaller ships because in a big ship it's increadibly hard to target small, fast ships with fixed weapons and the opposite is true the other way around! Smaller ships are so fast and agile that you can't get them efficiently into focus in a big ship - the small ship just boosts away a bit and is super hard to target, plus damage fall off kicks in hard. I also tried long range engineered turretted lasers that target even silent running ships at distance, but they just tickle the target, even multiple C3 beams. In addition, I already use a Fighter Bay but that doesn't turn the tide either at the moment.

3. vampireuk said that a Vulture is a really good combat ship and that it's hard to kill it with a big ship. My point was that this exacly shouldn't be the case. Sorry, but ... Duh!

4. A number of experimental engineering effects are way too good and clearly favor small ship against big ship situations like Phasing Sequence, Feedback cascade, Dispersal field, Reverbarating Cascade or Penetrator payload, whereas there is are no effects that favor big against small ships, like e.g. an Area of Effect (AoE) effect that does damage in a certain volume even without directly hitting. The latter could be an effect for Multicannons.

5. Right now smaller ships can have ridiculous alpha damage that's especially effective against big ships like with special effect Torpedos or PAs and it's easy to hit big ships with these weapons and instantly do comical amounts of damage that shouldn't be possible for a small or mid sized ship - but hitting small ships with PAs or Torpedos is really really hard.

6. 8A sensors, and lower tier sensors like 8D or 7A accordingly less efficient, should be completely immune to chaff and silent running. It's the 34th century and high tech sensors aren't ably to detect a ship through a bunch of aluminum debris or because the target isn't warm enough? Really?

7. As a last point and especially regarding my beginning boredom with the game, combat ranking should be based on PvP results exclusively (of course only when the mentioned balance issues are solved) and dynamic like e.g. in StarCraft: Commanders should be downranked if they keep losing against lower ranked PvP pilots in weaker ships etc.

Seal-clubbing thousands and thousands of weak ships in PvE hust shouldn't give anyone the rank Elite in combat.


I hope all this gets the attention of somebody at FD.


Best regards, Felix (CMDR Gewinnste)
 

Gewinnste

G
PvP Balance Big vs Small Ships

Dear All,

I can't believe that I get almost no support for what's the elefant in the room. Look at forum threads on what ships to use in PvP and the consensus is that big ships aren't viable - instead small or mid sized ships with crippling first strike damage (which they just shouldn't get to have - more on that later). So there you have it: PvP is abolutely NOT balanced!

The game is currently a bit unrewarding and even boring for me because PvP is such a mess.
A couple of additional points in this regard, also relating to the answers I received, in no specific order:

1. I can destroy pretty much anything in PvE with ease in a highly engineered A class Corvette and hold my own against Anacondas in PvP but I lquickly lose in PvP against ONE small ship or an FDL - how does that make any sense?

2. I do already employ fixed weapons but, again, that's far more useful for smaller ships because in a big ship it's increadibly hard to target small, fast ships with fixed weapons and the opposite is true the other way around! Smaller ships are so fast and agile that you can't get them efficiently into focus in a big ship - the small ship just boosts away a bit and is super hard to target, plus damage fall off kicks in hard. I also tried long range engineered turretted lasers that target even silent running ships at distance, but they just tickle the target, even multiple C3 beams. In addition, I already use a Fighter Bay but that doesn't turn the tide either at the moment.

3. vampireuk said that a Vulture is a really good combat ship and that it's hard to kill it with a big ship. My point was that this exacly shouldn't be the case. Sorry, but ... Duh!

4. A number of experimental engineering effects are way too good and clearly favor small ship against big ship situations like Phasing Sequence, Feedback cascade, Dispersal field, Reverbarating Cascade or Penetrator payload, whereas there is are no effects that favor big against small ships, like e.g. an Area of Effect (AoE) effect that does damage in a certain volume even without directly hitting. The latter could be an effect for Multicannons.

5. Right now smaller ships can have ridiculous alpha damage that's especially effective against big ships like with special effect Torpedos or PAs and it's easy to hit big ships with these weapons and instantly do comical amounts of damage that shouldn't be possible for a small or mid sized ship - but hitting small ships with PAs or Torpedos is really really hard.

6. 8A sensors, and lower tier sensors like 8D or 7A accordingly less efficient, should be completely immune to chaff and silent running. It's the 34th century and high tech sensors aren't ably to detect a ship through a bunch of aluminum debris or because the target isn't warm enough? Really?

7. As a last point and especially regarding my beginning boredom with the game, combat ranking should be based on PvP results exclusively (of course only when the mentioned balance issues are solved) and dynamic like e.g. in StarCraft: Commanders should be downranked if they keep losing against lower ranked PvP pilots in weaker ships etc.

Seal-clubbing thousands and thousands of weak ships in PvE hust shouldn't give anyone the rank Elite in combat.


I hope all this gets the attention of somebody at FD.


Best regards, Felix (CMDR Gewinnste)
 

Vola00

V
I did Just a little pvp, however i'm flying my ship for a long time now, i did hazardous extraction sites and cz, basically i know at least a bit of how to fight.

Yesterday when i was going to deliver 2 thargoid skin samples a vulture player interdicted me and got me out.

I got 7A enginered shields, 5 boosters, and i was aware that vulture can be a pain for large vessels, but i tought i had at least some protection, so after he typed that he wanted my cargo i was over confident and went "come and get it" deploying the little fighter.

Well comes out he had frag cannons, i assume double shot, and it just took two rounds for him to totally disable my shield even with 4 pips on them, i even intentionally rammed him (he screwed up come right in front of me) when he was comming with his second load.

Disabeled flyght assit, managed to lock the 3 laser turrets and all gimballed multicannons(he mande another mistake, went too far) and he had to ate afull load of enginered weapons, sadly for me that did not the expected damage i hoped for.

The fighter empire gimballed beam, the ramming and the weapon load took away only his outer shiels.

On his 3th round my canopy was gone and the armor was just around 40%

I managed to escape boosting in the perfect moment when he was turning (his 3th mistake).
Landed and the repair bill was 1 milion but my useless hard gained thargoid stuff was delivered.


Now i'm and old PvP player, i don't mind paper scissor rock balancing, neither i get angry if i get shot down, it's part of the game and makes it exciting, but that was a bit far beyond balance.

The 2nd best shielding in game should not be that useless.
His ship was obviously heavily enginered as is mine, and he of course had a lot of pvp expirince and even more important, he is skilled.

But such combats should really should last longer. A pvp pirate player should earn his cargo with a real good fight that should last more than just 40 seconds and the victim should have at least a chance to invert the situation.
 

jmp470

J
I use to love PVP, it was awesome as each ships was basically the same similar to nascar racing. And it boiled down to pilot skill and who could master their ships flight model. Then enter Engineers and jacked that all up. PVP is not about pilot skill, but, more of who has more time and materials to engineer their ships. It’s absolutely lame now.
 

Gewinnste

G
Ok, that makes more sense. Thank you guys very much! I put something in the suggesting box and hope it has at least some impact.
 
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