I think it's more about how it's done, and how informed that criticism is.
Shouting angry nonsense isn't typically a good way to bring someone around to your point of view.
General / Off-Topic Forum posters angry with developers
- Thread starter two quiet suns
- Start date
I think it's more about how it's done, and how informed that criticism is.
Shouting angry nonsense isn't typically a good way to bring someone around to your point of view.
Yes, agreed but this is like trying to catch sand using a sieve....a waste of time.
What the OP is asking is to police the forums which we already have in the form of moderators, so perhaps they could become a moderator, otherwise this whole thread is pointless.
Someone wants to rant and rage with poorly thought out arguments, they will do just that regardless of this post or the collective will for more constructive discourse.
Absolutely.
But I have a hard time believing this whole "gamers are toxic so we're not going to interact with them" shtick is nothing more than an excuse to absolve themselves of responsibility to their customers. If you can marginalize all criticism as coming from a toxic community which is only out to demean and harass, you no longer have to listen to that criticism.
It's a convenient scapegoat we're seeing used in other mediums as well: Disney (re: Chuck Wendig) used this very tactic to step around criticism of the Aftermath novels. Instead of responding to criticism that his books were poorly written, he instead attempted to label the critics as misogynists and homophobes because the books contain a female hero and a few openly-gay characters. While there were a handful of those comments, they were such a small minority that it's silly to think he and Disney put so much focus on them. But when you consider that the anti-hate campaign draws a lot of attention, it's easy to see why such a tactic is useful for advertising a product. I see this push by Mr. Randall to be no different; he's trying to label his critics as toxic hate-mongers in order to step around responsibility for their criticisms.
He and all of us need to remember that not everyone is educated in how to form and express a cogent argument. Criticism and debate are learned skills. We should perhaps be more understanding of people who don't know how to communicate their anger or frustration in constructive ways. So the way forward is to guide them into finding a more helpful voice and means to communicate with developers why they're upset. Blanketing them with "you're toxic and responsible for silent developers" isn't going to solve anything. In fact, I wager it'll only make those angry voices louder and angrier.
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Its a bit of a dichotomy, since a company with incompetent devs can't really be expected to have any potential
Its a bit of a dichotomy, since a company with incompetent devs can't really be expected to have any potential
Heh.
verminstar
Banned
Well said and repped.
Its human nature to shout when they feel ignored. Its human nature to get angry and shout louder and more toxic when repeatedly ignored. Dont want the anger and the salt then stop creating it and start actually talking to players who might not all have had the benefits of further education.
Blaming the community fer being too toxic is just gonna make it worse when those who are toxic blame frontier fer their being toxic in the first place. Its really not gonna have a happy ending and is about as effective as peeing into the wind during a hurricane at resolving the underlying issues.
Ive seen just as many toxic fanbois who appear to relish laying into those they label as toxic, which causes an argument that they then blame on the community. Thats borderline narcissistic and has caused its fair share of the arguments on its own.
The community is extraordinary. It is David who says it
I dont get why people get angry with dev.
They have a hard time for producing some bloody amazing stuff.
The complexity of what is happening we don't appreciate. The fact, they roll out PC, Mac, Xbox and PS4 updates at the same time is totally not appreciated enough.
We seem to complain something is missing because another game had something . This game is far superior to the orginal series, and is continually being improved all the time.
Its a game, and it should be hard and time consuming I don't want a game I get everything day one. I want to earn and strive to own something in the game.
People with large ships I look up to especially if they have worked hard for it.
Which is dev prop ably nerf stacking of missions etc. Which is good to make people earn stuff. As in real life we don't all drive round I'm lambagini aventadors so some people will have smaller ships.
Let's stop attacking dev,
They have a hard time for producing some bloody amazing stuff.
The complexity of what is happening we don't appreciate. The fact, they roll out PC, Mac, Xbox and PS4 updates at the same time is totally not appreciated enough.
We seem to complain something is missing because another game had something . This game is far superior to the orginal series, and is continually being improved all the time.
Its a game, and it should be hard and time consuming I don't want a game I get everything day one. I want to earn and strive to own something in the game.
People with large ships I look up to especially if they have worked hard for it.
Which is dev prop ably nerf stacking of missions etc. Which is good to make people earn stuff. As in real life we don't all drive round I'm lambagini aventadors so some people will have smaller ships.
Let's stop attacking dev,
The wisdom here
On a good day I congratulate myself for not making a comment in threads like this. On a mediocre day I try to sit on a fence balancing the issues and making a comment. On a bad day I respond without much thought to what's going on.
Are the Frontier forums all toxic .... no. Are their toxic or unhappy threads ... yes. All games forums have them. Some worse some not. Is this a good reason for Devs not to talk/communicate with their patrons/players? Absolutely not. Though I can well appreciate their reluctance. One has to assume, whether you like the content put out in a game like ED, that they are working hard on their project.
And as Devs are only human and I doubt the ratio of work required from them equals what they get paid or the long hours they may put in. And yes, as humans, they have feelings. Ok so boo hoo, right? Everyone wants A game that THEY want. But honestly if all the suggestions/demands were met I doubt we'd have a game any of us would play.
I'm not a software engineer. I've never made a game. I did do a wee bit of basic programming back in the dark ages. But that certainly does not qualify me to be openly critical of what a game developer does or does do. I do understand how tedious and unforgiving it is to have problems with programming. But nothing else.
Actually I marvel at what comes across my screen in the way of graphics. And I'm thankful. Do I want more? Yes. Would I like to see additions? Yes. Am I going to quit if I do not get them? No. But if I ever do get to a point where I am unhappy with this game, I will not plague the kind folks of this forum who welcomed me just a few months ago to this game and the forums.
I'm sure that the Devs welcome suggestions and even often regret not being able to empliment certain things for what ever reason. But I have to assume they have a certain passion for what they work on. So inspite of all of wanting to express our opinions, which I might should have kept mine to myself instead boring you, perhaps we should all step back and take a deep breath. And maybe play some of the game. At least those of us who still like it.
Chief
Are the Frontier forums all toxic .... no. Are their toxic or unhappy threads ... yes. All games forums have them. Some worse some not. Is this a good reason for Devs not to talk/communicate with their patrons/players? Absolutely not. Though I can well appreciate their reluctance. One has to assume, whether you like the content put out in a game like ED, that they are working hard on their project.
And as Devs are only human and I doubt the ratio of work required from them equals what they get paid or the long hours they may put in. And yes, as humans, they have feelings. Ok so boo hoo, right? Everyone wants A game that THEY want. But honestly if all the suggestions/demands were met I doubt we'd have a game any of us would play.
I'm not a software engineer. I've never made a game. I did do a wee bit of basic programming back in the dark ages. But that certainly does not qualify me to be openly critical of what a game developer does or does do. I do understand how tedious and unforgiving it is to have problems with programming. But nothing else.
Actually I marvel at what comes across my screen in the way of graphics. And I'm thankful. Do I want more? Yes. Would I like to see additions? Yes. Am I going to quit if I do not get them? No. But if I ever do get to a point where I am unhappy with this game, I will not plague the kind folks of this forum who welcomed me just a few months ago to this game and the forums.
I'm sure that the Devs welcome suggestions and even often regret not being able to empliment certain things for what ever reason. But I have to assume they have a certain passion for what they work on. So inspite of all of wanting to express our opinions, which I might should have kept mine to myself instead boring you, perhaps we should all step back and take a deep breath. And maybe play some of the game. At least those of us who still like it.
Chief
I'm glad you posted, you made some very good points and expressed them well.
mostly ego ....i guess thats why they do it
ill ask again whats complex about ED
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Let me just check the Op.....
the subject was why devs don't communicate and the premise was that its because of the toxic attitude of the people who post.
So let me ask, why are you taking snide digs at the forum moderators in this thread?
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I hear many local colleges offer "Intro to Programming" classes that might give you some insight. Throw in a graphics art course, advanced math course, an astronomy course, music course, acting course, business course, management course, writing course, oh my this list is getting huge.
What's complex about ED? [haha]
verminstar
Banned
Not entirely I have to say, although I have met others who fit that description to a tee...who they were and on what games isnt relevant to the debate. I know the job they do is a thankless one because its a job I did once upon a time in a land far far away...that however is where the similarities end.
I actually think most the mods here are ok...one or two could do with not taking themselves so seriously but nothing overly serious. I disagreed with the point being made at the time however and in the way it was made, not the mods specifically. Im anti authority by nature but understand they have a job to do, so a little common sense is needed.
Doesnt always work out fer me, but its never stopped me speaking my mind and it never will ^
he essentially told me to leave the forum, and was virtue signalled buy another mod
whats complex about the things you listed
What the flippity flip are you even on about? I don't even know how to process your nonsense, this is just garbage posting.