Federal Ships a let-down?

[sniperdoc]

Maybe I'm just missing something, maybe there are folks in agreeance with me... or maybe people vehemently disagree... but here's my gripe:

I've acquired a Fer-de-Lance (FdL), way before I even bothered to put effort into advancing through the Federation Navy ranks. However, recently I've decided to dedicate some time towards advancing in the Navy ranks.

What I've found is, that when I had the Vulture for some time already, and then bought the Dropship, thinking I'd have this angel choir moment, I was quite let down... it was more of a "weeeeep wooooomp" moment. Maneuverability sucked, shields sucked, jump range sucked, etc.

Fast forward then, me acquiring an FdL. Now, I'm zipping around in an FdL that's basically got the best stock components that I can buy. I acquire enough rank to try out the Assault ship, but looking at it on Coriolis, I'm highly disappointed by the stats once again... I follow this up and look at how the Federal Assault ship compares to the FdL and I'm literally just blown away that things haven't improved much at all, when compared to the FdL. I can go and fit a stock FdL with the best components and come out at about 93 - 95mil credits. I fit an Assault Ship and I'm looking at 75Mil-ish, and it's just weeeep woooooomp all over?

If I fit an Assault ship and I'm looking at about 103Mil I benefit from a Fighter bay, but the effort to GET the Assault ship seems to be very tedious and in a way... also feels like a let-down? Shields suck, maneuverability sucks, jump range sucks, DPS is marginally better, etc...

So, I read some forum posts and basically everyone said "well, that's not its role, it's mean as a troop carrier, it's an armor tank, etc." However, none of those roles exist in the Elite Dangerous gameplay and I don't feel like they will ever exist.

Instead of creating an environment where these roles are viable, Frontier seems to already have glossed over game-play balancing/fixes and has moved on to Thargoids and UI changes.

If these ships are meant to be "armor" tanks, they're not really. It's HULL. Components get damaged as soon as shields are penetrated, so there's really not an "armor" aspect of the game. These ships are HULL tanks. Sure, it takes longer to kill them, but effects that affect flight and fight take hold as soon as shields are breached. What would be nice, is, as a player becomes a Navy veteran and has access to these ships, to have Navy Hull mods that provide more than your average protection vs thermal/explosive/kinetic, ones that don't necessarily have any negatives to explosive/kinetic protection, or at least not as high as the standard mods. Maybe have the mods not affect mass as well. Something positive...

I just feel like the overall effort put forth to get the ships, they all feel like a major let-down, if a player already has an FdL. I WANT to fly a Fed ship... I'm proud of having acquired the Fed ships... but I feel like I'm a sailor flying around in a civilian vessel because the Navy's equipment sucks... xD

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I find all of the rank locked ships (bar Cutter and Corvette, because I don't own them yet) to be 'meh'.

I've flown all of them. And sold all of them, bar the iCourier. Which o only keep to see how ridiculously fast I can get it. It has no other purpose.

The FDL, Python and Anaconda do everything I need, and require no rank on top of that. And look better. (IMHO).

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Jack Dalton]

I don't have much experience in playing around other people or following the "meta", but during the latest CG, I think I almost got literally sick of seeing imperial Cutters and Clippers and NOT A SINGLE player flown Federal Ship. It's a bummer, as I have made the decision to improve my Federal standing since a while ago and now am starting to realize it will probably be a letdown. At least I about to get my SOL permit

 

[EUS]

First, assault ship cannot have a fighter hanger, only the gunship can have it.
Second, stats aren't everything, the assault ship is crazy maneuverable, almost the same as the vulture. It destroys everything PvE. When shields go down (and they will), the hull can still take a crazy beating.

Note, I haven't flown a FDL, I went from Vulture to FAS.
Never bothered with the dropship, or gunship either, but the gunship seems to have a fierce cult-like following, I haven't discovered its secret to why people love it.
Maybe it's the fighter bay, and seven weapon slots.

I agree with the jump range, low jump range seems to be a "thing" with federal ships.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Maybe I'm just missing something, maybe there are folks in agreeance with me... or maybe people vehemently disagree... but here's my gripe:

I've acquired a Fer-de-Lance (FdL), way before I even bothered to put effort into advancing through the Federation Navy ranks. However, recently I've decided to dedicate some time towards advancing in the Navy ranks.

What I've found is, that when I had the Vulture for some time already, and then bought the Dropship, thinking I'd have this angel choir moment, I was quite let down... it was more of a "weeeeep wooooomp" moment. Maneuverability sucked, shields sucked, jump range sucked, etc.

Fast forward then, me acquiring an FdL. Now, I'm zipping around in an FdL that's basically got the best stock components that I can buy. I acquire enough rank to try out the Assault ship, but looking at it on Coriolis, I'm highly disappointed by the stats once again... I follow this up and look at how the Federal Assault ship compares to the FdL and I'm literally just blown away that things haven't improved much at all, when compared to the FdL. I can go and fit a stock FdL with the best components and come out at about 93 - 95mil credits. I fit an Assault Ship and I'm looking at 75Mil-ish, and it's just weeeep woooooomp all over?

If I fit an Assault ship and I'm looking at about 103Mil I benefit from a Fighter bay, but the effort to GET the Assault ship seems to be very tedious and in a way... also feels like a let-down? Shields suck, maneuverability sucks, jump range sucks, DPS is marginally better, etc...

So, I read some forum posts and basically everyone said "well, that's not its role, it's mean as a troop carrier, it's an armor tank, etc." However, none of those roles exist in the Elite Dangerous gameplay and I don't feel like they will ever exist.

Instead of creating an environment where these roles are viable, Frontier seems to already have glossed over game-play balancing/fixes and has moved on to Thargoids and UI changes.

If these ships are meant to be "armor" tanks, they're not really. It's HULL. Components get damaged as soon as shields are penetrated, so there's really not an "armor" aspect of the game. These ships are HULL tanks. Sure, it takes longer to kill them, but effects that affect flight and fight take hold as soon as shields are breached. What would be nice, is, as a player becomes a Navy veteran and has access to these ships, to have Navy Hull mods that provide more than your average protection vs thermal/explosive/kinetic, ones that don't necessarily have any negatives to explosive/kinetic protection, or at least not as high as the standard mods. Maybe have the mods not affect mass as well. Something positive...

I just feel like the overall effort put forth to get the ships, they all feel like a major let-down, if a player already has an FdL. I WANT to fly a Fed ship... I'm proud of having acquired the Fed ships... but I feel like I'm a sailor flying around in a civilian vessel because the Navy's equipment sucks... xD

The federal ships are mainly a PVP vessels. Their shields are almost non existent, and in PVE farming they come out to be useless. The FAS is the most maneuverable ship in the game and its a lethal power in PVP (second choice) that can take on FDLS.
The key is to fit a bi-weave with good regen roll, everything else must be HRPs and 1-2 MRPs. Choice of weapons is PA, rails and frags.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

Different ship types appeal to different people. If you're flying around in a Vulture and then the FdL, I would honestly expect you to not like the Dropship, because it's far more a multirole than a dedicated combat ship.

The Assault Ship and the Gunship do have their combat-focused fanbases though (as does the Dropship, for that matter). I currently own all the aforementioned ships, and I would much rather fly my Assault Ship or my Gunship into a fight (PvE, I don't really PvP) than I would the FdL. I prefer the handling on the Core Dynamics ships. On paper the Gunship should fly like a brick, but in practice, I think it's great. Some combination of acceleration and thrusters or something. Those paper stats are misleading though.

 

[ironhammer500]

The Dropship sucks, end of story, only thing its good at is being a battering ram with full hull tank since its a heavy beast. The FAS i used some time ago and it was pretty good with the full PA weapon loadout i nukes Condas pretty fast, its nimble enough to stay behind a connie but really the Vulture is just better, i tried a FDL on test didnt like the lack of aim with the huge hard point so i felt it was useless and fitting a PA kinda took to much power.

 

[XanderVekk]

Maybe I'm just missing something, maybe there are folks in agreeance with me... or maybe people vehemently disagree... but here's my gripe:

I've acquired a Fer-de-Lance (FdL), way before I even bothered to put effort into advancing through the Federation Navy ranks. However, recently I've decided to dedicate some time towards advancing in the Navy ranks.

What I've found is, that when I had the Vulture for some time already, and then bought the Dropship, thinking I'd have this angel choir moment, I was quite let down... it was more of a "weeeeep wooooomp" moment. Maneuverability sucked, shields sucked, jump range sucked, etc.

Fast forward then, me acquiring an FdL. Now, I'm zipping around in an FdL that's basically got the best stock components that I can buy. I acquire enough rank to try out the Assault ship, but looking at it on Coriolis, I'm highly disappointed by the stats once again... I follow this up and look at how the Federal Assault ship compares to the FdL and I'm literally just blown away that things haven't improved much at all, when compared to the FdL. I can go and fit a stock FdL with the best components and come out at about 93 - 95mil credits. I fit an Assault Ship and I'm looking at 75Mil-ish, and it's just weeeep woooooomp all over?

If I fit an Assault ship and I'm looking at about 103Mil I benefit from a Fighter bay, but the effort to GET the Assault ship seems to be very tedious and in a way... also feels like a let-down? Shields suck, maneuverability sucks, jump range sucks, DPS is marginally better, etc...

So, I read some forum posts and basically everyone said "well, that's not its role, it's mean as a troop carrier, it's an armor tank, etc." However, none of those roles exist in the Elite Dangerous gameplay and I don't feel like they will ever exist.

Instead of creating an environment where these roles are viable, Frontier seems to already have glossed over game-play balancing/fixes and has moved on to Thargoids and UI changes.

If these ships are meant to be "armor" tanks, they're not really. It's HULL. Components get damaged as soon as shields are penetrated, so there's really not an "armor" aspect of the game. These ships are HULL tanks. Sure, it takes longer to kill them, but effects that affect flight and fight take hold as soon as shields are breached. What would be nice, is, as a player becomes a Navy veteran and has access to these ships, to have Navy Hull mods that provide more than your average protection vs thermal/explosive/kinetic, ones that don't necessarily have any negatives to explosive/kinetic protection, or at least not as high as the standard mods. Maybe have the mods not affect mass as well. Something positive...

I just feel like the overall effort put forth to get the ships, they all feel like a major let-down, if a player already has an FdL. I WANT to fly a Fed ship... I'm proud of having acquired the Fed ships... but I feel like I'm a sailor flying around in a civilian vessel because the Navy's equipment sucks... xD

FAS maneuverability is amazing. It’s like a vulture with a ton more armor and better guns. It’s one of the few decent PVP ships out there. Fit a simple biweave that just keeps coming back every few seconds. If you’re flying this right, you shouldn’t BE in a place where bigger ships can shoot at you.

FGS? It’s slow. But it gets seven hard points and a class seven distributor backing them up. Fit all multicannons, and tear people a new backside. Has better shields than an FAS. Plus, it gets a fighter. Best ship in the game for surface attack missions.

FDS? Don’t knock it. Check the Thargoid killing videos out there. People fit the FDS with four of those new AX missiles. FDS has like 3-4000 hull, so the shield-bypassing murderous corrosive thargoid attacks don’t instantly kill you.

All federal ships come with a built in mobility buff, it’s called FA-OFF. FAS really doesn’t need it often though, it can dance.

Federal ships work best with an AFMU, and a couple of module reinforcements, and everything else hull. Your internals shouldn’t be getting hit that hard.

Finally, I’ll leave this (the setup I use). This is why we love it:
https://youtu.be/fJ1oBDQHhfM

 

[ALGOMATIC]

FAS maneuverability is amazing. It’s like a vulture with a ton more armor and better guns. It’s one of the few decent PVP ships out there. Fit a simple biweave that just keeps coming back every few seconds. If you’re flying this right, you shouldn’t BE in a place where bigger ships can shoot at you.

FGS? It’s slow. But it gets seven hard points and a class seven distributor backing them up. Fit all multicannons, and tear people a new backside. Has better shields than an FAS. Plus, it gets a fighter. Best ship in the game for surface attack missions.

FDS? Don’t knock it. Check the Thargoid killing videos out there. People fit the FDS with four of those new AX missiles. FDS has like 3-4000 hull, so the shield-bypassing murderous corrosive thargoid attacks don’t instantly kill you.

All federal ships come with a built in mobility buff, it’s called FA-OFF. FAS really doesn’t need it often though, it can dance.

Federal ships work best with an AFMU, and a couple of module reinforcements, and everything else hull. Your internals shouldn’t be getting hit that hard.

Finally, I’ll leave this (the setup I use). This is why we love it:
https://youtu.be/fJ1oBDQHhfM

This.


On top of that, if you dont want to fly the meta FDL in pvp, the FAS is the best alternative.

 

[Redomus]

I don't have much experience in playing around other people or following the "meta", but during the latest CG, I think I almost got literally sick of seeing imperial Cutters and Clippers and NOT A SINGLE player flown Federal Ship. It's a bummer, as I have made the decision to improve my Federal standing since a while ago and now am starting to realize it will probably be a letdown. At least I about to get my SOL permit

I did fly one (the gunship) during this but I got promptly rammed by many FDL's. I might not be an FOTM kid - but while its heavy its kinda fun. Multi-Cannons make you look like a hero, at least vs npcs! plus a double slf to have 16 fighters at your disposal.

I use MRP's now to try to get around the module damage issue. It mitigates an amount for a bit of time but hardpoints get crushed off pretty quick. Expensive to run, but you look bloomin cool.

And yes, its super slow - so really your only option is to stack as much hull as you possibly can and pray its enough to outlast someones shield in essence from what i've found.

 

[Morbad]

If these ships are meant to be "armor" tanks, they're not really. It's HULL. Components get damaged as soon as shields are penetrated, so there's really not an "armor" aspect of the game. These ships are HULL tanks. Sure, it takes longer to kill them, but effects that affect flight and fight take hold as soon as shields are breached. What would be nice, is, as a player becomes a Navy veteran and has access to these ships, to have Navy Hull mods that provide more than your average protection vs thermal/explosive/kinetic, ones that don't necessarily have any negatives to explosive/kinetic protection, or at least not as high as the standard mods. Maybe have the mods not affect mass as well. Something positive...

It's not that difficult to adequately protect modules to make hybrid setups worthwhile.

TThe FAS is the most maneuverable ship in the game

Not by any reasonable definition of maneuverable it's not.

It's rotational performance is very good, only decisively bested by ships like the Eagle and Vulture, but it's translational performance is quite average and well behind the Viper, FDL, Vulture, DBS, etc.

 

[ROSS-128]

The assault ship is definitely far more maneuverable than its stats let on. Also, because it compensates for its overweight hull with oversized engines, it responds fairly well to engineering.

It's got an excellent turn rate, and is deceptively fast due to its high boost speed and ability to boost pretty much continuously. It also has extreme acceleration when boosting, so a combination of FA-Off and boosting can let you execute some neck-snapping changes in direction. It is prone to drifting due to its high hull weight, it's very easy to turn faster than your non-boosting engines can change your vector, which combined with its reliance on FA-Off and aggressive boosting gives it a bit of a high learning curve, but it is a very rewarding ship once you get the hang of it.

It does have a poor stock jump range and only carries enough fuel for about 3 jumps, but it can be engineered to about 21LY and an FDL pilot should be used to having low fuel reserves.

Its low shield strength is definitely a weak point, especially with only 4 utility slots. The key is a bi-weave shield, an AFMU, and some willingness to shrug off a bit of module damage. Spec for resistance to make every point of regen count.

For weapon layout, its main weakness is that its large hardpoints are split between top and bottom. The three bottom hardpoints have excellent convergeance, the top one does not. I run mine with three fixed cannons on the bottom and a gimballed beam on the top, the gimballing helps the beam converge by extending its arc down a bit and the type split means I can favor one side over the other based on my current target. Its capacitor can handle a large beam pretty well. In general, three fixed weapons of your choice on the bottom and one gimballed on the top seems to work well. Overall it has less total firepower than an FDL or Python, but it can apply that firepower directly to the powerplant like a surgeon.

I like my FAS. It's definitely not for everyone, but if you like an aggressive high-risk, high-reward ship, you might find the FAS surprisingly enjoyable.

I haven't gotten around to outfitting the FGS yet (after I got my corvette I looked over my collection and realized "I forgot the FGS? This won't do!") so I can't give it a similar review. But I think with its abundance of small and medium hardpoints, it might have a bright future as a dakkaboat or missile boat.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

The federal ships are mainly a PVP vessels. Their shields are almost non existent, and in PVE farming they come out to be useless. The FAS is the most maneuverable ship in the game and its a lethal power in PVP (second choice) that can take on FDLS.
The key is to fit a bi-weave with good regen roll, everything else must be HRPs and 1-2 MRPs. Choice of weapons is PA, rails and frags.

Thanks, been meaning to build one.

 

[Redomus]

The assault ship is definitely far more maneuverable than its stats let on. Also, because it compensates for its overweight hull with oversized engines, it responds fairly well to engineering.

It's got an excellent turn rate, and is deceptively fast due to its high boost speed and ability to boost pretty much continuously. It also has extreme acceleration when boosting, so a combination of FA-Off and boosting can let you execute some neck-snapping changes in direction. It is prone to drifting due to its high hull weight, it's very easy to turn faster than your non-boosting engines can change your vector, which combined with its reliance on FA-Off and aggressive boosting gives it a bit of a high learning curve, but it is a very rewarding ship once you get the hang of it.

It does have a poor stock jump range and only carries enough fuel for about 3 jumps, but it can be engineered to about 21LY and an FDL pilot should be used to having low fuel reserves.

Its low shield strength is definitely a weak point, especially with only 4 utility slots. The key is a bi-weave shield, an AFMU, and some willingness to shrug off a bit of module damage. Spec for resistance to make every point of regen count.

For weapon layout, its main weakness is that its large hardpoints are split between top and bottom. The three bottom hardpoints have excellent convergeance, the top one does not. I run mine with three fixed cannons on the bottom and a gimballed beam on the top, the gimballing helps the beam converge by extending its arc down a bit and the type split means I can favor one side over the other based on my current target. Its capacitor can handle a large beam pretty well. In general, three fixed weapons of your choice on the bottom and one gimballed on the top seems to work well. Overall it has less total firepower than an FDL or Python, but it can apply that firepower directly to the powerplant like a surgeon.

I like my FAS. It's definitely not for everyone, but if you like an aggressive high-risk, high-reward ship, you might find the FAS surprisingly enjoyable.

I haven't gotten around to outfitting the FGS yet (after I got my corvette I looked over my collection and realized "I forgot the FGS? This won't do!") so I can't give it a similar review. But I think with its abundance of small and medium hardpoints, it might have a bright future as a dakkaboat or missile boat.

Thats interesting - originally wanted to load it up with missiles but I was advised not to due to reasons. They seem to deal a lot of damage from what I have seen though when they arent PD nullified

 

[Old Duck]

My Dropship is one of my favorite mission runners. It can carry enough cargo for many delivery missions, it's jump range is fine for "planet next door" missions, and it's great for 'private' planetary scan missions where everyone turns hostile and you need to soak up damage before jumping out of system.

As for maneuverability, I actually like having a sluggish old boat in my fleet. All my class 2 hardpoints are currently turret weapons, so I don't need to outfly anyone to hit them. It does take a certain skill to pilot and land this thing, and I like the challenge of that.

All that said, I also have a Vulture and a Viper III. If I had to pick only one ship, it would not be the Dropship.

BTW - I'm still grinding rank for the other Federal ships.

 

[ROSS-128]

Thats interesting - originally wanted to load it up with missiles but I was advised not to due to reasons. They seem to deal a lot of damage from what I have seen though when they arent PD nullified

Probably because the alternative is dakka, and dakka has generally been (probably still is, I haven't checked) better. Similar damage, more ammo, no worry about point defense, ability to hit internal modules (ie powerplant), stuff like that.

Though missiles sure can strip external modules now, might be great if you particularly want to focus on breaking the target's engines.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

It's not that difficult to adequately protect modules to make hybrid setups worthwhile.



Not by any reasonable definition of maneuverable it's not.

It's rotational performance is very good, only decisively bested by ships like the Eagle and Vulture, but it's translational performance is quite average and well behind the Viper, FDL, Vulture, DBS, etc.

The pitch rates combined with boost and FA off is the fastest of any ship. Laterals and verticals are not, you are correct.
I am not comparing eagles, vipers and DBS for PVP fights vs the FAS, they are maybe more maneuverable in some ways but lack the armor and DPS and in 1 v 1 the FAS is a clear winner.

 

[Gamatech]

I agree with op and their statement on the Federal ships being built for a playstyle that just doesn't exist. "Dropship", the clue is in the name! The Assault and Gunships are just variants of the same vessel. It's supposed to deploy vehicles, troops and supplies into ground combat zones. The only somewhat simmilar role we can use it for is cargo runs through war torn systems, and it's cargo space isn't the best out there.

These ships are among some of the hardest to obtain in the game, they should be something special and effective but they all fall short.

The only thing I've found them to do quite well is rescue missions. I have a Dropship kitted out with the best scanners, an SRV, even fuel and repair limpets for good measure. Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that the new search and rescue agent contact has been introduced! But there's still a lot to be done for that career path to stack up alongside the payoffs of others. Besides that point, it still leaves the Dropship and variants thereof lacking in every other field.

 

[Morbad]

I am not comparing eagles, vipers and DBS for PVP fights vs the FAS, they are maybe more maneuverable in some ways but lack the armor and DPS and in 1 v 1 the FAS is a clear winner.

That still leaves the Vulture and FDL as common PvP vessels that I'd consider generally more maneuverable than the FAS (though narrowly so in the latter case).

 

[G-Two]

What about the 'vette? I've seen a lot in this thread about the FDS, FAS, & FGS, but nobody's brought up the corvette. I've found it to be quite versatile. (As long as I don't need to land on an outpost, that is.)