Yes exactly. Earth like worlds are common, yet there is no sentient creatures anywhere except in the cluster of stars near Earth. That heavily implies a causal link between all three species.
Alien archaeology and other mysteries: Breaking News, Theories and Tinfoil Hattery
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Yes exactly. Earth like worlds are common, yet there is no sentient creatures anywhere except in the cluster of stars near Earth. That heavily implies a causal link between all three species.
Yes I know, please read my original post. As I've said the link isn't biological for the Thargoids, it's technological.
Panspermia would not create two almost physically, socially and mentally identical creatures. That's just not how evolution works.
Sure that might mean there's a DNA link, but if that were the case the Guardians would be just as likely to be Jellyfish or Lizards.
The fact they are basically humans but with some differences implies a much more recent common ancestor, but since there's significant skeletal differences then it seems likely they might have genetically altered themselves into, presumably, early primates. Or maybe spliced their DNA with our ancestors which could (in game) account for the relatively sudden appearance and dominance of early modern humans and the eventual downfall of Neanderthals.
At least sentient creatures on approximately our own level of development.
There could be less developed types out there, that don't emit light or EM waves. I guess the Achenarians fall in to this category?
There could also be more developed types that we can't detect, because they don't want us to.
Other types of life that has mentioned in the context of Elite are:
- Silicon life. Life forms where carbon structures are replicated by silicon compounds(not the same as silicon based metabolism, that we find on Earth). According to FFE their planets are all airless and close in to the local star and they are slow moving.
- Plasma based life. As far as I know it has never been mentioned in Elite lore, but Michael Brookes once posted this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ife-possible?p=2723790&viewfull=1#post2723790
I don't think there are any indications that the Guardians were that similar to us?
They do sound 'mammal like', but had a totally different bone structure. They also favored sign language over speaking.
It also seem implied that they have evolved from a pure carnivore type pack hunter animal.
I'm thinking more wolf than monkey.
They are described as being bipedal, slightly taller than the average human, with two arms, four fingers on each hand. vestigial noses in the middle of their face and two eyes that are similar to human eyes but slightly larger in the front of their heads, small mouth under the nose, they have blood that is exactly like a humans, they eat the same food (although they can also digest meat uncooked). The major differences are more flexible bones, two joints on the elbow and spikes on the forearms and red skin (but it is skin, just as we have, and in different shades of red like we have different skin colours). Those similarities alone are absolutely remarkable on a biological level.
Yes they are described as pack or tribal hunters and nomadic (in their earliest history, but that can also be applied to us too, we didn't settle down until very recently in our evolutionary history), the wolf analogy is great, nice work, although again, we also fit that description. Even if they are more wolf than monkey (we're descended from Apes by the way, not monkeys) that alone would still be an amazingly remarkable discovery, and doesn't preclude that they could be our ancestors.
If we (in the real world) encountered aliens that looked like that our scientists would go nuts over how similar they are to us since it's such a crazily remote possibility that another form of sentient life would evolve all those traits exactly like us (because there are so many options).
Plus, as we've said, Ram Tah also comments on how similar to humans they are right down to the DNA. He says that we could live on their worlds with no problems at all.
Again, it's not a coincidence. They are related to us 100%. Just depends whether they made us (accidentally or deliberately) or we're some offshoot of their descendent. I suspect we're the (descendants of the) Exile colony to be honest. I think the narrative is all going that way. Especially since the first Alien artefact found in the Elite universe by Humans was on Mars in the early space development (and is still kept secret there) but no other artefacts of sentient life were found there, suggesting it was left by a space-faring race, the info is in a tourist beacon around Mars if you want to go look. It's entirely possible that's a Guardian artefact (although it's supposed to be very small, the size of a finger). It could easily be a data stick or something, maybe that's how Ran Tah translated the Guardian data so fast, maybe they already had a lot of data and all he did was run the new scans through the translator. It did seem that the knowledge we collected at the Ruins sites was what was amazing to him, not the fact that the Guardians existed at all.
True, and I really, really hope that's the case. I'd love it if there was another sentience out there.
There's tons of life out there in Elite, but it's all just animals and plants, so until we get atmo planets it's basically just a number on a chart.
There's hints of more advanced sentient life too. Raxxla for example would imply a very advanced race (possibly long dead). The legends of that suggest a species that made a portal (or something) that leads to other universes. Some think that was a Guardian project (some think it's a Guardian VR type simulation), but I personally think it was likely another alien race entirely. We probably won't know for sure until Raxxla is discovered (again).
I really hope we see some other signs of sentience, but I think for now we've got our active aliens and I suspect there's a Third live one out there somewhere (though may just be more Thargoids, who knows!).
Here is a theory i have and sorry its in another thread https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/381902-A-small-theory-on-the-alien-cyclops its basically the thargoid ships we see now are actually real life overgrown biological thargoids breed for space , they will allso have an eggsac in them cause they are all female wich would most likely have ground based thargoids for invasion. (this is all just speculation but seems more plausable then most other theorys out there)
So are bananas...
Sure, and if we found bananas on an Alien planet we'd be like "holy crap, this is a banana, that means Earth bananas and these bananas are related. That's amazing, let's investigate and see where that relationship accurs!"
We wouldn't say: "Sure, it looks like a banana, tastes like a banana, shares the DNA of a Banana, but it's not related to our bananas at all, it's just convergent evolution".
... I guess some of the people on this forum would say exactly that actually
Sorry, I'm still not getting why it's not possible for nature to have evolved similar solutions to the same problems in similar environments.
In fact, it seems to me to be absolutely compelling.
DNA, for example - Ram Tah doesn't say they have the same DNA as us, just that it has the same structure.
Blood: well you need to transport nutrients around the body somehow. Trees do it with sap, plants with a similar substance. So again: they had blood but that's more likely due to the fundamental chemistry on which their bodies are based, which is more down to the *environment* they evolved within rather than automatically making them related to us. Again, we have other organisms on Earth with different biochemistry precisely because of their environment - e.g. Sulphur & Carbon Dioxide-based life. Even then, that life has a blood analogue.
And re physiology - again, it might just be that evolution selects certain physiologies for the most intelligent species. Example - to change the environment you need tools, at least for beyond the most basic changes (e.g. beavers building dams), and if you can't manipulate objects effectively then your ability to make those changes is severely hampered. So it seems likely that the best toolmakers throughout this universe would all evolve analogues to hands and fingers which are nimble and which can manipulate objects very efficiently. Crows also use tools, but their beaks and feet are inherently limiting factors in the range of tools they can make and use. In short: they won't be making spaceships any time soon.
Similar with forward-facing eyes for seeing, or legs or similar for moving around unimpeded etc...
So for every interpretation which says 'they're similar, so we must be related' there is an alternative explanation which says that life could well have evolved similar solutions more than once. We're patterns matchers and classifiers, that's the way our brains work: so it's natural to see similarities and to say 'they're the same': but there might be a more benign explanation.
In fact, it seems to me to be absolutely compelling.
DNA, for example - Ram Tah doesn't say they have the same DNA as us, just that it has the same structure.
Blood: well you need to transport nutrients around the body somehow. Trees do it with sap, plants with a similar substance. So again: they had blood but that's more likely due to the fundamental chemistry on which their bodies are based, which is more down to the *environment* they evolved within rather than automatically making them related to us. Again, we have other organisms on Earth with different biochemistry precisely because of their environment - e.g. Sulphur & Carbon Dioxide-based life. Even then, that life has a blood analogue.
And re physiology - again, it might just be that evolution selects certain physiologies for the most intelligent species. Example - to change the environment you need tools, at least for beyond the most basic changes (e.g. beavers building dams), and if you can't manipulate objects effectively then your ability to make those changes is severely hampered. So it seems likely that the best toolmakers throughout this universe would all evolve analogues to hands and fingers which are nimble and which can manipulate objects very efficiently. Crows also use tools, but their beaks and feet are inherently limiting factors in the range of tools they can make and use. In short: they won't be making spaceships any time soon.
Similar with forward-facing eyes for seeing, or legs or similar for moving around unimpeded etc...
So for every interpretation which says 'they're similar, so we must be related' there is an alternative explanation which says that life could well have evolved similar solutions more than once. We're patterns matchers and classifiers, that's the way our brains work: so it's natural to see similarities and to say 'they're the same': but there might be a more benign explanation.
You're conflating two different things here. "Carbon-based" refers the fact that complex carbon molecules are essentially the basis for all life on Earth. Thargoids are described as "ammonia-based" not in that sense, but merely in the sense that they are adapted to an ammonia environment. In fact DB has stated that they are also carbon-based, but with ammonia as the solvent rather than water (Rolling Stone interview).
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Sorry that doesn't make any sense at all. Guardian artefacts have survived millions of years on these planets where the sites are found, and even now the Earth fossil record is well understood (if not, obviously, complete) way back beyond that timescale, and not a single Guardian-like artefact or whatever has been found on Earth, according to ED canon.
In fact, we have a very clear line - not least from DNA - from current modern humans all the way back to the start of life on Earth - with very clear evidence that the earlier we go back, the more 'primitive' those humans were.
The idea that we're an offshoot of a space faring race runs completely contrary to that idea.
And, more importantly, for this to be correct, then, you'd have to be saying that *all* life on Earth is related, right back hundreds of millions of years.
And that's just not possible. It's a romantic notion, nothing else.
Sure, and if we found bananas on an Alien planet we'd be like "holy crap, this is a banana, that means Earth bananas and these bananas are related. That's amazing, let's investigate and see where that relationship accurs!"
We wouldn't say: "Sure, it looks like a banana, tastes like a banana, shares the DNA of a Banana, but it's not related to our bananas at all, it's just convergent evolution".
... I guess some of the people on this forum would say exactly that actually
It all depends on hove strict the rules of evolution are, in the Elite universe. For example, every water world system in the bubble will sell fish. Fish is something that evolves on all water worlds, it seems.
These alien fish are edible for humans, so they are most likely quite similar to earth fish. They probably look quite similar as well, because the most hydro dynamical and energy efficient will survive.
(Sorry for multiposting - last one for the time being, promise)
All that said; the idea that Thargs might be a creation of the Guardians is entirely more possible - especially as a freak bio-AI chimera that got out of control.
The ED universe already has a precedent for runaway AI - that which was (hopefully!) exterminated & banned by humanity - and it's not a stretch to suggest that a previous intelligent species created the same problem, but failed to deal with it, leaving us to mop up the mess perhaps.
All that said; the idea that Thargs might be a creation of the Guardians is entirely more possible - especially as a freak bio-AI chimera that got out of control.
The ED universe already has a precedent for runaway AI - that which was (hopefully!) exterminated & banned by humanity - and it's not a stretch to suggest that a previous intelligent species created the same problem, but failed to deal with it, leaving us to mop up the mess perhaps.
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Sure, and if we found bananas on an Alien planet we'd be like "holy crap, this is a banana, that means Earth bananas and these bananas are related. That's amazing, let's investigate and see where that relationship accurs!"
We wouldn't say: "Sure, it looks like a banana, tastes like a banana, shares the DNA of a Banana, but it's not related to our bananas at all, it's just convergent evolution".
... I guess some of the people on this forum would say exactly that actually
Wrong on both accounts... They would probably say "Mmmm, Tasty!"
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With a leg spike and extra joint, I'm thinking insectoid or reptilian.
I found around 30 new barnacles but i just found it because of the glitch...