General / Off-Topic More than 50 killed in Las Vegas terror attack

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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Boomer Kay said:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

He's assuming "Firearms, type not stated" are not rifles.
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I would tend to think it was a similar distribution to the rest of the sample, perhaps slightly favoring smaller weapons as they probably were not found.
But hey, I'm fair like that.
I know, weird right?

Stigbob said:
True you can kill with a lot of things, but guns are the most efficient and effective method.
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Bombs are much more efficient.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Bobdelion said:
Except that it really isn't - it speaks to the whole rhetoric around gun ownership in the States. Just because handguns are most commonly used in shootings does not make the kinds of heavy armaments discussed here and being sold to and owned by the general public anything other than completely preposterous, and yet the mere thought of new regulation results in chorus of 'they are taking our guns!'

Again, I do not believe for one second that this has anything to do with the second amendment or the notion of self defence. You can deal with handguns however you like (I'd argue for stronger restrictions but that is a whole other debate). When it comes to fully/semi-automatic firearms; it's the equivalent of saying that just because every 17 year old out there can buy a hatchback and will statistically account for the most car deaths while driving them doesn't make it a good idea to allow the sale tanks or APC's to every Tom, , and Harry who wants one. These are tools of war, designed specifically for killing people on mass.

In many respects the most shocking aspect of this incident is that the murderer in Las Vegas was using these tools exactly as intended. That alone is horrifying. We can quibble about people's mental state's when they carry out these actions but the fact remains that without access to these types of weapons this tragedy - and other like it - would've been a very different affair.
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Well, he might have stuck with the ammonium nitrate, yeah...
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Boomer Kay said:
Also easier to detect and thwart: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/oklahoma-van-bomb-domestic-terrorism.html

Suspicious in the US: buying lots of fertilizer and box cutters
Completely ok: hoarding assault rifles
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False dilemma and no, that's not true.
Dude in Vegas had bomb stuff in his car, and no magic detection happened.
Perhaps you should read more before just trying to justify your beliefs?
I'm very fair and balanced.
Consider that I recognized your fake stat right away; that suggests I'm pretty familiar with these numbers, no?
 

FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
Guys, this is fact.

gundeaths.jpg


If you want to defend it - that's ok. That's fine. But denying it sounds offensive, because it sort of denies the carnage that happened in Vegas.
 

Boomer Kay

B
Bob Lighthouse said:
False dilemma and no, that's not true.
Dude in Vegas had bomb stuff in his car, and no magic detection happened.
Perhaps you should read more before just trying to justify your beliefs?
I'm very fair and balanced.
Consider that I recognized your fake stat right away; that suggests I'm pretty familiar with these numbers, no?
Click to expand...
First you bring up violent crime rates as metric for gun homicide.
Then you're not capable of substracting suicide from total gun incicents.
Then you declare 30% gang related gun homicides "the majority of gun issues".

If I wouldn't know better about the limits of the human mind, I'd attribute the 3 hurricanes to the congitive dissonance in the US rather than global warming.

jontycampbell said:
Also beware the NY Times, their lying liar reporter Caitlin erson lied about Twin falls Idaho 5 yo girl sex assault case by three boys, and lied about the investigative journalist that covered the case and provided her with the details
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I gave you 46,000 source material links to check.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
 
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Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
FuzzySpider said:
Guys, this is fact.

https://travelingneuroscientist.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/gundeaths.jpg

If you want to defend it - that's ok. That's fine. But denying it sounds offensive, because it sort of denies the carnage that happened in Vegas.
Click to expand...

Did you watch the video I linked?
Those are almost exclusively in very small, highly gun controlled parts of the country.
The places with the highest per capita gun ownership do not share those numbers.
These are easily verifiable facts.
If you want to blame people fine, but it's not the gun toting rednecks and average Americans.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Boomer Kay said:
First you bring up violent crime rates as metric for gun homicide.[/quote\

Don't lie,
I brought up violent crime.
Gun deaths do plot in a similar line.
Do you disagree?

Then you're not capable of substracting suicide from total gun incicents.
Then you declare 30% gang related gun homicides "the majority of gun issues".
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're claiming.

If I wouldn't know better about the limits of the human mind, I'd attribute the 3 hurricanes to the congitive dissonance in the US rather than global warming.


I gave you 46,000 source material links to check.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
Click to expand...


You have not made any valid counter points.
The facts are pretty clear, sorry.
Click to expand...
 

[SI] Bobdelion

[SI] Bobdelion
Bob Lighthouse said:
Well, he might have stuck with the ammonium nitrate, yeah...
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That is missing the point; people can kill people in many and varied ways should they be inclined to do so, but that still doesn't make it anything but idiotic to allow the sale of high powered military style weapons to the general public. More over the idea that even the notion of banning/restricting these weapons should always result in cries of 'they are taking all of our guns' is to do nothing but play into the hands of the big business that earns money off of this practice, and has nothing to do with individualism, freedom, or home defence.
 

Adept

Adept
Bobdelion said:
Except that it really isn't - it speaks to the whole rhetoric around gun ownership in the States. Just because handguns are most commonly used in shootings does not make the kinds of heavy armaments discussed here and being sold to and owned by the general public anything other than completely preposterous, and yet the mere thought of new regulation results in chorus of 'they are taking our guns!'

Again, I do not believe for one second that this has anything to do with the second amendment or the notion of self defence. You can deal with handguns however you like (I'd argue for stronger restrictions but that is a whole other debate). When it comes to fully/semi-automatic firearms; it's the equivalent of saying that just because every 17 year old out there can buy a hatchback and will statistically account for the most car deaths while driving them doesn't make it a good idea to allow the sale tanks or APC's to every Tom, , and Harry who wants one. These are tools of war, designed specifically for killing people on mass.

In many respects the most shocking aspect of this incident is that the murderer in Las Vegas was using these tools exactly as intended. That alone is horrifying. We can quibble about people's mental state's when they carry out these actions but the fact remains that without access to these types of weapons this tragedy - and other like it - would've been a very different affair.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I just meant that the problem goes way further than semi-automatic rifles with high capacity magazines.
 

FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
jontycampbell said:
Why would anyone defend gun deaths, specifically murders. Which leads one to the granular detail, is this figure for 2017? Via official crime records? Most important of all is this figure ALL deaths from firearms: murder, accidents, suicides, those shot by cops? Or just murders?
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Not defend gun deaths but having guns available to society.

The date of the figure is completely immaterial. And whether the figure includes accidents, suicides etc is least important of all. Those are still gun deaths.
 

Adept

Adept
Zaphod Hawke said:
You can't really be so dense.

He used a Mosin-Nagant exclusively, and killed over 500 armed men with it. All by himself.

I own several Mosin-Nagant rifles.

They are Russian models, so probably not as accurate as the Finnish model used by Hayha, but they are bolt action rifles.

You can put five rounds downrange in short order, and be ready to fire again in mere seconds.

I was directly countering your point, as if you were not aware.

I see you neglected to comment on the Paris truck attacks.

Care to try again?
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Sigh...

The truck attacks are rare, and honestly easier to deal with than gun massacres. They are also outlier cases where a vital piece of transportation equipment is turned into a weapon. Banning trucks isn't an option, but steps are being taken to make this sort of misuse harder.

The guns used in massacres are serving their primary purpose. They are tools for killing, easily and at range. Banning guns, or at least drastically reducing them is an option. It has been done all over the world, and it works.

As for Häyhä, an exeptionally skilled soldier can indeed kill hundreds with a bolt action rifle. In a war, over a long period of time. It has essentially no relevance in comparison to the mass shootings perpetrated in the US.

I don't think I'm the one being dense here.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
FuzzySpider said:
Guys, this is fact.

https://travelingneuroscientist.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/gundeaths.jpg

If you want to defend it - that's ok. That's fine. But denying it sounds offensive, because it sort of denies the carnage that happened in Vegas.
Click to expand...



Also, you quoted raw numbers?
That's just more of the dishonesty I'm talking about.
You know the US is a little bigger than those countries, right?
Denmark is like a California suburb.

I guess 4.88(US) vs 1.58(France) isn't nearly as shocking, sorry.

Fake news!
lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Bobdelion said:
That is missing the point; people can kill people in many and varied ways should they be inclined to do so, but that still doesn't make it anything but idiotic to allow the sale of high powered military style weapons to the general public. More over the idea that even the notion of banning/restricting these weapons should always result in cries of 'they are taking all of our guns' is to do nothing but play into the hands of the big business that earns money off of this practice, and has nothing to do with individualism, freedom, or home defence.
Click to expand...


You do realize an AR15's round is actually WEAKER than say an average deer rifle right?
People actually argue that round is cruel to hunt with because it's too small and weak.

You seem misinformed.
 
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