"Sigh, *again*, FDev?", or: "A heartfelt plea to the Development Gods"

[barnstormer1126]

We've been looking forward to Thargoids for months now, you hyped us up, got us all excited....

And all it is is just more of a grind, more of the same ol' same ol', if you want to stand any chance of not being immediately killed?

Come on guys.

Now (IIRC) I know you've stated in some way that after this update you were gonna work on core mechanics and such but...this 2.4 update makes me a little worried that you don't truly understand what players *really* want from your game. I mean...the toxic idiots aside, this post on reddit makes a *lot* of really good points https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange..._bull_this_game_needs_proper/#bottom-comments one of the most salient of which is that no game, *ever*, should require you to turn on Youtube or Netflix on the TV or another monitor to not be bored to tears while playing, and if you read through the whole thread there's a *lot* of really good suggestions as well. So please, O Powerful Development Gods, by all means, ignore the toxic players, but I beg you: at *least* engage with those of us who are willing to genuinely discuss these issues and offer suggestions.

I, and many others, *want* to absolutely love this game, but...we just can't, not right now.

 

[ArchEmperor]

We've been looking forward to Thargoids for months now, you hyped us up, got us all excited....

And all it is is just more of a grind, more of the same ol' same ol', if you want to stand any chance of not being immediately killed?

Come on guys.

Now (IIRC) I know you've stated in some way that after this update you were gonna work on core mechanics and such but...this 2.4 update makes me a little worried that you don't truly understand what players *really* want from your game. I mean...the toxic idiots aside, this post on reddit makes a *lot* of really good points https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange..._bull_this_game_needs_proper/#bottom-comments one of the most salient of which is that no game, *ever*, should require you to turn on Youtube or Netflix on the TV or another monitor to not be bored to tears while playing, and if you read through the whole thread there's a *lot* of really good suggestions as well. So please, O Powerful Development Gods, by all means, ignore the toxic players, but I beg you: at *least* engage with those of us who are willing to genuinely discuss these issues and offer suggestions.

I, and many others, *want* to absolutely love this game, but...we just can't, not right now.

You do the same in the game of life.

 

[barnstormer1126]

You do the same in the game of life.

...Seriously? This isn't life, it's a bloody VIDEO GAME.

 

[lokvette]

That reddit post did score some home truths about the game.

 

[barnstormer1126]

That reddit post did score some home truths about the game.

Exactly. And the comments go even further, I was very surprised at how *few* commenters took the route of "LOL YEAH ELITE SUCKS" and had real, genuine responses and even suggestions in some cases. And like I get that FDev just doesn't wanna deal with the toxic players, but they can't just ignore the legit stuff alongside it, which is what they seem to kinda be doing :/

 

[RaSenche]

...Seriously? This isn't life, it's a bloody VIDEO GAME.

But its also a Simulation.
And this is not a game where the player is automatically a Hero. so the "grind" is part of it.

But i do agree that the recent change to Thargoid damaging is way to excessive. forcing ppl back to CG's if they want to fight the thargoids.
Yes they would also be working on a way to counter is.. so no mater what technology they have its a bit extreme to say the weapons you developed and actually killed Thargoids with, they would become immuume against in about a week or 2.

 

[Allchemyst]

But its also a Simulation.
And this is not a game where the player is automatically a Hero. so the "grind" is part of it.

But i do agree that the recent change to Thargoid damaging is way to excessive. forcing ppl back to CG's if they want to fight the thargoids.
Yes they would also be working on a way to counter is.. so no mater what technology they have its a bit extreme to say the weapons you developed and actually killed Thargoids with, they would become immuume against in about a week or 2.

There are two errors in what you say :

1) This is not a "simulation" as in "truck simulator". It's a game that contains a 1-1 scale simulation of the entire galaxy. The notion that something being "simulated" is reason to tolerate "X" is a non sequitur anyway.

2) (This is gonna be one mouthful...) Either being a hero or not being a hero does in no way in itself constitute a reason for there to be - or not to be - repetitive gameplay or so called "grind". There are many games out there where a "hero" needs to commit to an absurd amount of grind, and others where such a thing dosen't even exist as a possibility to the character.

Any game, barring very quick, usually indie experiences, will contain a repeating gameplay loop. It is the quality of this loop that makes people feel it as either "great fun" or "grindy".

How can we tell the difference? Surely, it has to be purely subjective? Well, not really :

Introducing the notion of intrinsic vs extrinsic reward. The best games and experiences are those whose gameplay is a reward in and of itself. That is Intrinsic reward : Just playing is satisfying enough. Extrinsic rewards, on the other hand, are based on external gratification, like coins, armor/etc. Example : This raid boss was amazingly fun to kill and I can't wait to do it again tomorrow = Intrinsic reward. The boss dropped great loot and that makes me happy : Extrinsic reward.

The difference is that it's immensely easier to appeal to the human brain's "neurotic" or compulsive side and focus on offering tempting extrinsic rewards (the whole microtransaction economy is based almost entirely upon it) and get people hooked to the reward they're going to get, than it is to build really fun, interesting, compelling and absorbing gameplay. Creating such gameplay requires a true sense of style - in the artistic sense, real creativity, because it is an artform. Creating loot boxes, carrots at the end of the stick, etc... does not. Of course, the best game possible can deliver on both extrinsic and extrinsic rewards to form a coherent whole that offers even more satisfaction, but F2P games have proven that a mere "skinner box", being "grind, get random rewards that make the grind faster/easier, grind again" are enough, sadly to captivate the human mind. The sheer success of the game "Cow Clicker", which was meant as a parody of those mechanics, is proof enough.

"Grind", in essence, is a gameplay loop whose reward is near-100% extrinsic. Sometimes, good gameplay becomes grindy when it is too drawn-out, because the intrinsic reward element fades over time. Sometimes, it isin't even interesting to begin with.

When many (if not most) of your players identify an important part of the game as "grindy" or even "pure grind", what you need to hear is that only the reward is fun, and the gameplay is not, for one reason or another. It should make you question the quality of gameplay offered and rethink those mechanics.

And regardless of how many games do contain "grind", such a thing should never be accepted as a "good" or "normal" thing, because it's litterally meant as a means of lenghtening the lifespan of the game at the expense of player time. Every moment in this game could be made into an adventure in itself, and when you're having an adventure, you're not grinding.

 

[barnstormer1126]

Very well said, Allchemyst, thank you.