FX17: No space legs and no atmospheric planets

I made a quick scan on the thread to see if people really expected Spacelegs or Atmo release announcement for next year. I didnt find anyone (if there are some, they must be a minority). Why do you guys talk about the reactions on the absence of news about Spacelegs as if they were complains (or as some like to say, "whines")? Or why do you misrepresent the opinions expressed as if they are about Legs not coming this year or the next? OP complained that they are just not part of the roadmap. Granted that is not part of the roadmap for 2018, why isn't it part of the roadmap for 2019 then or just a general view on plans for the future (instead of a "would like to do that, that would be cool"? When you don't see progress, I think is a reasonable question.

I think the speculation is coming from the absolute lack of news for 3 years or more and the history of flops with ED. But as usual, the apologist tendency is to create a misrepresentation of the opposing view and ridicule it for what is not about.

The absence of news in this regard only make the speculation stronger, and issue that FD didn't address. For the people who actually have an interest in Legs since the KS, the silence is either because Frontier really want to make it a surprise for 2019 or even later -at the expense of incrementally hurting trust and other things, for potentially 5 years or more-, or because they don't have anything to show -which would also hurt trust and other things.

And many of the ones who are calling others inpatient, delusional, and so on and on, were also the ones who though Spacelegs or Atmo would come on December last year. So calm your teats you all, because those of you who though that were at least two or three years off.

They will announce space legs and atmospheric planets when they are ready. Not earlier and not later. No amount of whining, complaining and entitlement will change this.

BTW most of the reasonable people in this community knew from the beginning that it will take quite a lot of time until these features are released.
 
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Honestly IDGAF about some insects thargoids. But damn those new planet tech pics got me riled up really good! Wish I could skip all this thargoid nonsense and get to the good parts of Beyond. I really love what's coming.
 
You would have a point if space legs and atmospheric landings would be cancelled. They aren't. You just have no idea what you are talking about.
If people want to be disappointed than that's because they are idiots. You can't blame frontier for that.

Do you have any arguments to offer or just unsubstantiated insults?
 
They will announce space legs and atmospheric planets when they are ready. Not earlier and not later. No amount of whining, complaining and entitlement will change this.

BTW most of the reasonable people in this community knew from the beginning that it will take quite a lot of time until these features are released.
Like you didn't read what I said [where is it]
 
Do you have any arguments to offer or just unsubstantiated insults?

I do, but you somehow managed to ignore it. How about you, do you have an argument to offer?

BTW
It's not insulting but simply true. FDEV said a few weeks ago that atmos and legs are still far away. If someone expects them to be in 2018 after reading such a statement he is simply not very clever.
Like you didn't read what I said [where is it]
I did, I just think it was very contradicting ;)

"Nobody expects to hear something about space legs, but they absolutely should announce space legs..."
 
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... look at my screen running Space Engine and wonder... why don't we have this in ED? ...

The difference being, how much interactivity and game play is there in SpaceEngine?
I have not touched it for a while it may have changed, so that is a genuine question.

My point being, both products have very different goals and hence different results.
 
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The difference being, how much interactivity and game play is there in SpaceEngine?
I have not touched it for a while it may have changed, so that is a genuine question.

My point being, both products have very different goals and hence different results.
You can in fact fly spaceships, but is very tricky. The comparison between SE and ED is always made in the context of a 1 man team, although this can be misleading, since there are some custom addons made by other people creating some stuff. I played with the ships from Interstellar that were not created by the creator of SE. In any case, is a engine created by voluntary work during spare time mainly by one man, and a handful of independent contributors. When this proportions are considered in comparison to Frontier, the question is almost inevitable. But the question emerges exactly because we don't know.

https://youtu.be/0Dtpk5Hpb6o?t=12m13s
 
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That is a misrepresentation of what I said. Please, read it again, and with good will.

Sorry I did and really tried, but to me it's still the same message plus an insulting comment to the "apologists"... :)

BTW
That's part of the problem, I really don't think that anybody has something to apologise for.
 
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Mu77ley

Volunteer Moderator
After the main streaming this is the conclusion, there are a few upcoming features that are good but not enough, at least for me. They showed a roadmap until Q4 of 2018 and in the incoming features there were no mention to space legs, atmospheric planets and other features promised by FDev. I have the feeling that FDev refuse to compete. It seems like they have accepted the second place behind Star Citizen.

/me bangs head on desk

How many times do FDev have to say that space legs, while in the plans, are a long, long, LONG way down the road and not coming any time soon before people actually listen?
 
The difference being, how much interactivity and game play is there in SpaceEngine?
I have not touched it for a while it may have changed, so that is a genuine question.

My point being, both products have very different goals and hence different results.

Point well taken. But forget about SE not really being a ship simulation for a moment. Imagine you had these planets in ED. Furthermore, let's assume that you could do only the things that you can do on airless worlds there, so random pockets of resources, crashed ships, small box buildings. Heck, outside the bubble you'd probably never see any type settlements at all.

Now I don't know about you, but man... that'd make ED the go-to for people who don't normally care about space games. It'd make exploration ten times more amazing. Going to that 200.000ls planet would be worth it for the sights alone.
 
Sorry I did and really tried, but to me it's still the same message plus an insulting comment to the "apologists"... :)
Well, I never claimed that nothing was expected from Spacelegs, and I didn't say that they should totally announce it. Those were not premises in what I wrote. As for the insult (I suppose you mean the "calm your teats" thing), is in response to the hypocrisy behind the type of reply that claims that "we always knew it was a long way off, you [whiners, idiots, babies, etc] should be more [patient, be an adult, go play SC, etc]". On the other hand, I certainly don't mean the word "apologist" in a pejorative way, and I clearly didn't attribute that hypocrisy to all of them, but only to some (the ones that wield that kind of response, even when they believed Atmo and Legs were coming last year or the current one). "Long way off" seems to have different meanings as time goes by

That's part of the problem, I really don't think that anybody has something to apologise for.
In the context of a debate, an apology means a defense. On one side there are critics, and on the other apologists. And I don't mean this as a sharp separation of people (but primarily of opinions and arguments), since one's opinions can vary from one specific point to another.

BTW
It's not insulting but simply true. FDEV said a few weeks ago that atmos and legs are still far away. If someone expects them to be in 2018 after reading such a statement he is simply not very clever.
Or maybe they don't have time to check the forum every day, simply to find a stranded post from a single developer in the middle of a multiple pages thread. But your first guess is that people want to be willingly disappointed because they are idiots, which of course, is an even weirder interpretation of things. Idiots are common, but voluntary disappointment is not.
 
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OK: let's look at what would be necessary for atmospheric planets:
- model sky
- model water: rivers, lakes, sea.
- model atmospheric entry
- model weather: wind, clouds, rain, lightning
- model flight dynamics therein
- model vegetation: grass, plants, trees. These need to be diverse and respond to wind and player interaction.
- model wildlife: an ecosystem of insect-like life right up to big animals, which need to move, behave, interact, make noises etc.

Basically look at No Man's Sky, and the difficulties it has had to come up with a different but interesting ecosystem on every planet.

Now, space legs:
- Model character movements (walking, crouching, bending, gesturing etc.)
- model ship environments. These need to be interactive.
- model station and outpost environments: basically entire cities. Every building, every corridor, every room.
- fill those environments with their own ecosystem: people (with logical behaviour patterns and interactive dialogue), props.

Again look at No Man's Sky, which has interaction with life forms that the player comes across.

All this has to connect to the game in some meaningful way.

Easy, no? Can be done in a few months. :p
 
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I do, but you somehow managed to ignore it. How about you, do you have an argument to offer?

I fear we may be talking at cross purposes. I advocated that FD created the expectation for atmos and legs in the KickStarter. That I think is irrefutable.

The expectation that atmos and legs were going to come after main game release might also have accidentally been created by the KickStarter. The only content that was mentioned as after launch expansions were our old friends legs and atmos.

I’m disappointed that there is still no further fixing of legs and atmos in the roadmap other than far off. Did I expect it to be announced at Expo17? No, but I still harboured a crazy hope.

It’s like supporting the England football team. Do I expect them to win the World Cup next year? No, and all the indications are they will not. Do I hope they will? Yes, but they won’t so I’ll end up disappointed as usual :)
 
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Expectation and hope are driven by hype and promises, something that FD need to get better at managing I guess
 
After the main streaming this is the conclusion, there are a few upcoming features that are good but not enough, at least for me. They showed a roadmap until Q4 of 2018 and in the incoming features there were no mention to space legs, atmospheric planets and other features promised by FDev. I have the feeling that FDev refuse to compete. It seems like they have accepted the second place behind Star Citizen.

GOOD! The last thing the game needs is yet more tacked on, pointless bare bones game-play.
As for 2nd place behind Star Citizen, SC is still a looooooooong way off and the 2017 release date is for Squadron 42, not for SC.

I'd rather the game had some depth and proper game-play added and THEN they can get spacelegs and atmospheric planets done properly. Please note, proper game-play is not another gambling machine RNG grind or the pointless joke that was multicrew.

The fact that so many of us have been saying this on the forums (with many of us just simply not playing anymore) and FD has actually listened is a huge relief.
 
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OK: let's look at what would be necessary for atmospheric planets:
- model sky
- model water: rivers, lakes, sea.
- model atmospheric entry
- model weather: wind, clouds, rain, lightning
- model flight dynamics therein
- model vegetation: grass, plants, trees. These need to be diverse and respond to wind and player interaction.
- model wildlife: an ecosystem of insect-like life right up to big animals, which need to move, behave, interact, make noises etc.

Basically look at No Man's Sky, and the difficulties it has had to come up with a different but interesting ecosystem on every planet.

Now, space legs:
- Model character movements (walking, crouching, bending, gesturing etc.)
- model ship environments. These need to be interactive.
- model station and outpost environments: basically entire cities. Every building, every corridor, every room.
- fill those environments with their own ecosystem: people (with logical behaviour patterns and interactive dialogue), props.

Again look at No Man's Sky, which has interaction with life forms that the player comes across.

All this has to connect to the game in some meaningful way.

Easy, no? Can be done in a few months. :p

You've been very feature complete with your atmospheric planet inclusions. The MVP could be a subset, with the remainder brought in later, if ever. Ditch fauna in the first instance, and probably flora. FDev are on fairly solid ground assuming life is so scarce that it can plausibly be omitted entirely. Basic weather is fine. We don't need the whole gamut. Let FDev expand gradually. Start more simply.

Edit: Populated ELWs and terraformed worlds would indeed need fauna and flora in the long run.
 
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Some of you are saying that we don't need space legs and atmospheric planets because before that the game needs improvements in the core mechanics. But those things (space legs, atmospheric planets, ship interiors... etc) ARE core mechanics. These things were in the scope at the beginning of the game, in the kickstarter.

This is the source of you frustration and disappointment right here.

You seem to be working under your own definition or "core" based either what you want/think should be in a game, what other games have/have had/promise they will have and what FD have stated as an ambition/future goal/"we'd really like to, at some point, way off, don't hold your breath".

The generally accepted definition of "core" as it applies to Elite, and the one the FD themselves are using is the basic game and features as they already exist.

Making up you own definitions and alternative facts is fine but the drawback is that they will lead to frustration and disappointment when they come into contact with reality.
 
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