"Beyond" free for Horizon owners - LEP musings

[KING5TON]

a group of folk are setting themselves up for disappointment

I think you are underestimating some people's ability to twist what is happening in reality to what suits their internal narrative.

An example would be if you remember back before launch
Some people - "This can't be the game you're launching with, there's so much stuff missing"
Defenders - "No, there's an internal magical mystery dev build that contains the rest of the game!"
FD - "This is the game we are launching with"
Defenders - "Yey, best game evar! Magical Mystery build? I didn't say that, I'm just going to ignore any reference to it now because I never mentioned it"

I'm paraphrasing

 

[Jex =TE=]

I'd like to believe they've learned a few things from their past mistakes, and that 2018 is all about consolidation and overall improvement / rewrites, to set the game up for the next big paid expansion(s).

Given that we had years of "Winter is coming" and then they release the big, bad alien to scare us all and it's defeated by simply flying backwards then no, FDev don't learn from their mistakes because this was how everyone defeated the regular AI which FDev had to fix. Then a couple of years on and we're back at square one.

 

[Ian Skippy]

FDev are either way too slow or have nobody working on ED and given that 2.0 took forever, this "2.4 beyond" is going to take 2 years and then they start work on 3.0 which will likely be 2-3 years but this will be a full release which means it will need bug testing so more likely 3 years (and let's not forget that ED is full of bugs that need fixing ON TOP of the new content they're adding).

If at the end of "2.4 beyond" we have a couple of new shallow features and we still have the bugs, who's going to hang around a few years for 3.0? If you were on the board of directors or a shareholder, would you be comfortable pushing out 3.0 if it was like that?

Yesterday it rained a lot, so it must rain a lot next week too. It must rain for at least four consecutive days, after which probably a volcano will erupt for a month or two. But volcano's are big so kinda like four months I think. After that we'll have a lot of ash and dark clouds, plus it may still rain, so who is going to hang around? If you were the mayor of this place I just pulled out of my rear based on pretty much nothing, would you run for office again?

Well, would you punk?

 

[Stryka Choon]

I think this thread has run it's course. There are many, many people who've posted in this thread with genuine concerns about the future development the game, existence or not of paid-for expansions and therefore what the point of buying a LEP in 2015 was; but all these people are continually shouted down by a small group of people who disagree with the sentiment of the majority, some of whom unfortunately use insults and aggressive wording to make their point. Soon the only people left will be the small, rude minority, violently agreeing with themselves, all the while completely missing the valid point that the OP and many, many others have made.

I know, it's called Dangerous Discussion for a reason

My final words: I'm optimistic. I think there will be a season 3 in 2018 that is paid for. All that was shown at FX17 is only what will be available without cost to owners of season 2, just like 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, etc were available without cost to owners of season 1 (base game). Paid-for season 3 will be awesome

See you in the black commanders.
Cheers

It seems to me that the point of Beyond is to wrap up Horizons as the game FD originally meant it to be. That's, at least in part, why it's free. The few extras included (Squadrons etc) are by way of a bonus to compensate for the extended period over which Horizons has rolled out. Once Beyond is done, they will return to their original scenario of paid-for DLCs, which all those with LEPs will have with no further payment while the rest of us will pay up if we wish to participate. And that's as it should be.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I think it actually is pragmatic capitalism. They noticed how many people were upset by the pricing model of Season 2 (paying upfront, paying so close to release, for features that some argued should be part of the base game, etc.) and tried to do better to please their players so it's more likely they'll buy the next expansion. They didn't expect a 25 pages thread of people complaining that others get stuff for free though, which is a bit naive because complaining is the only thing this community is good at. Must have something to do with our age, we are all bitter old men.

Now get off my lawn!

LOl maybe!

However, in defence of the forums, FDev keep punching themselves in the face. It's perfectly reasonable to ask where your LEP is going and we've all seen what's been offered by FDev which has mostly failed.

CQC
Power Play
Wings (a failure because it's so buggy and unreliable but absolutely needed but the failure compunds with no missions for winged players, not even a basic escort mission in 3 years)
MultiCrew
RNGineers (this is more mixed as a lot of people like it but it cut off none Horizon players from PVP and ruined PVP and made PVE even easier than what it already is)
Passenger Mission (an extra mission added as an expansion. I think if we didn't have delivery missions and they tried to sell those as an expansion people would complain.

Then there's Horizons, or the planets, where FDev did exactly the right thing and then stopped working on those to give us the rubbish other stuff whilst charging before it was made and cutting their staff to work on JW.

Imagine if instead of cutting staff to work on other projects and they concentrated on the planet stuff would anyone care if we didn't have MC, RNGeers and Passenger Missions?

 

[WR3ND]

Yesterday it rained a lot, so it must rain a lot next week too. It must rain for at least four consecutive days, after which probably a volcano will erupt for a month or two. But volcano's are big so kinda like four months I think. After that we'll have a lot of ash and dark clouds, plus it may still rain, so who is going to hang around? If you were the mayor of this place I just pulled out of my rear based on pretty much nothing, would you run for office again?

Well, would you punk?

Spoiler

 

[Jex =TE=]

Jex, you so self centred here that you don't even recognize why FD took longer route for Horizons. Because they added way more than they planned, especially to core game. That's what they planned. They intended to do that right after 2.1 update. After it were no delays, it was all planned. It is called reorganization. It happens a lot and it is why good management is essential in big software projects - to call it, to make that unpopular change.

They have 1 year planned ahead, and most likely already plan for 2019, when next paid for extension will be rolled out.

As for Horizons content, I think people don't really realise what's done in background, and what kind of improvements and changes they added due of longer schedule.



Considering it is only one of features they talked about for Q4 (and it is more than year ahead), expect way more in that patch besides Squadron gameplay.

Each update contains something I don't use or pay for. Not going around claiming I should get something extra.

How can I be self-centered for pointing out what other people did. That isn't self-centered. They added way more than they planned? So the offering that you lapped up so greedily is something other dev houses would knock up in 3 months. You got a turret, passenger missions, a buggy and wheel of fortune weapons. The planets was the only decent thing in the lot and they made them all beige.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Yesterday it rained a lot, so it must rain a lot next week too. It must rain for at least four consecutive days, after which probably a volcano will erupt for a month or two. But volcano's are big so kinda like four months I think. After that we'll have a lot of ash and dark clouds, plus it may still rain, so who is going to hang around? If you were the mayor of this place I just pulled out of my rear based on pretty much nothing, would you run for office again?

Well, would you punk?

What are you going on about LMAO!! Something unprediactable you use as some kind of point about a development team working on a game?

OK well let's see - in 2018 you expect there to be the meat added to the game and all the bugs removed in addition to new content for squadrons and exploration on top of continuing the Thargoid thing - or is that stopping in a few months time?

 

[Sashenka]

I think you are underestimating some people's ability to twist what is happening in reality to what suits their internal narrative.

An example would be if you remember back before launch
Some people - "This can't be the game you're launching with, there's so much stuff missing"
Defenders - "No, there's an internal magical mystery dev build that contains the rest of the game!"
FD - "This is the game we are launching with"
Defenders - "Yey, best game evar! Magical Mystery build? I didn't say that, I'm just going to ignore any reference to it now because I never mentioned it"

I'm paraphrasing

Ah yes, the good old "Vertical Slice". Good times.

I, for one, don't mind the LEP, I took a gamble, so far I'm on the losing side since it would have cost me less if I hadn't took it. On the other side, the ride isn't over, even if it is slow AF. Now that the Expo is over and Frontier is back to being silent for months, I just have to wait for the next Expo.

 

[Juniper]

What are you going on about LMAO!! Something unprediactable you use as some kind of point about a development team working on a game?

OK well let's see - in 2018 you expect there to be the meat added to the game and all the bugs removed in addition to new content for squadrons and exploration on top of continuing the Thargoid thing - or is that stopping in a few months time?

Apparently the youtube gameplay narrative is going to continue well into 2018 and after. Deep joy.

And here's the thing. As a developer, when you refactor and rewrite code on the scale that they're proposing for Beyond, bugs inherently disappear. It's a big reason why you do it. New ones might appear, but they're hopefully easier to track down and fix with cleaner code.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ah yes, the good old "Vertical Slice". Good times.

I, for one, don't mind the LEP, I took a gamble, so far I'm on the losing side since it would have cost me less if I hadn't took it. On the other side, the ride isn't over, even if it is slow AF. Now that the Expo is over and Frontier is back to being silent for months, I just have to wait for the next Expo.

Thargoid stuff at FX indicates there will be new challenges and actual escalation in game - if you care about that.

Other than that, they will go and we will go to get time off at the end of the year, and will most likely start to communicate about Q1 release - I suspect Sandro will give us update about C&P changes they will propose and will gather some feedback.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Apparently the youtube gameplay narrative is going to continue well into 2018 and after. Deep joy.

And here's the thing. As a developer, when you refactor and rewrite code on the scale that they're proposing for Beyond, bugs inherently disappear. It's a big reason why you do it. New ones might appear, but they're hopefully easier to track down and fix with cleaner code.

Well let's hope so and let's hope we get some good exploration content too

 

[Juniper]

Well let's hope so and let's hope we get some good exploration content too

I do believe that's something we can all agree on.

I personally have 2 x LEPs. I don't consider myself ripped off, and I'm happy that Beyond is free. I considered them long term investments at the time, and I still do.

 

[Kayweg]

Ah yes, the good old "Vertical Slice". Good times.

I, for one, don't mind the LEP, I took a gamble, so far I'm on the losing side since it would have cost me less if I hadn't took it. On the other side, the ride isn't over, even if it is slow AF. Now that the Expo is over and Frontier is back to being silent for months, I just have to wait for the next Expo.

Personally i don't think you (and other LEP holders) have anything to worry about.
Not that i have read every single post in this thread, though many i have, but you might be the first here who acknowledges he took a gamble.
Because that's what buying as of yet undeveloped and unreleased gaming content always is, be it season passes, lifetime passes or pre-orders.
That doesn't give any company the right to take undue advantage of the shown trust, but it is in the end something everybody, who does purchase in advance, needs to remember.
So, it was refreshing to note, some still do.

 

[GJ51]

Just think of how much better a deal SC players are getting...

 

[rennarda]

If FD don't have any plans to sell further paid DLC updates, then, yes I do think that they have taken LEP holder's money under false pretences. It was clearly sold under the guise that there would be many paid updates after Horizons.

I don't agree that this was a gamble - there was no disclaimer when purchasing that there might not actually BE any more paid updates...

If this isn't the plan then perhaps they could convert this to £100 frontier store credit for in-game purchases, or convert it into in-game credits as a 10M:1 ratio ;-)

 

[LKx]

There was no "gamble" about the LEP(2015) it was a purchase of all future paid expansion content. Frontier changed the rules after selling the LEP when they went to a new model for releasing content. If you bought a lottery ticket and won the main prize and suddenly the rules were changed that everyone who entered got a share, you might be a bit upset.

A LEP is ALWAYS a gamble. There were no guarantees about how many expansions released nor when.

Said so, we WILL get a value from our 2015 LEP, just not next year. The core game desperately needed enhancements, and that what beyond sounds like, and they couldn't possibly monetize on that.

When they are ready to sell new big features, they will certainly have a paid expansion for that.

 

[Popalu]

A LEP is ALWAYS a gamble. There were no guarantees about how many expansions released nor when.

Said so, we WILL get a value from our 2015 LEP, just not next year. The core game desperately needed enhancements, and that what beyond sounds like, and they couldn't possibly monetize on that.

When they are ready to sell new big features, they will certainly have a paid expansion for that.

Agreed and whose to say that they are not working on the paid for expansions, alongside these core enhancements, so we get to the end of 2018 and get a Q1, new content launch at the next Expo

 

[Sashenka]

Agreed and whose to say that they are not working on the paid for expansions, alongside these core enhancements, so we get to the end of 2018 and get a Q1, new content launch at the next Expo

We don't, like most of everything that has to do with the game development, and this is what makes people uneasy. I remember the LEP mentioning Planetary Landings and Space legs, and as far as we know (refer to point 1), they are still on the roadmap. If they are paid or free is another matter. But if they are free, then nice, more people gets to play them, if not, then you have your LEP's 'worth'. Why get mad if people get things for free? For me, the LEP was always 'no ETA, no guarantees' like most of the development of ED up this point.

 

[Drelthar]

If FD don't have any plans to sell further paid DLC updates, then, yes I do think that they have taken LEP holder's money under false pretences. It was clearly sold under the guise that there would be many paid updates after Horizons.

To be fair, this is exactly how Braben got into a fight with Ian Bell.

Promising lot's of expansion disks for Frontier Elite 2 (which granted Ian Bell royalties.) Then just relasing a "New game" (which didn't grant royalties) instead

(Though obviously that was all sorted out by the lawyers at the time, and resolved)