Every update simply makes progression more tedious, past exploiters have found religion.

[Cmdr. Numa]

Yet there also exists the ever-so vocal reformed cheaters that support these changes. Since they have engorged themselves on a feast of skimmer and massacre missions, planetary scans etc, they now stand at the forefront of FD's tedium initiative.

Not all of us, not all of us. I'm neither reformed, nor do I consider myself a cheater. I did the lion's share of my wealth with Robigo smuggling back in the day (and no, I didn't sell/rebuy mission commodities to stack even more missions, nor did I use the take mission, abandon, sell exploit), then later massacre missions and that forever legendary 400 million cr CG.

I'm very sympathetic to your plea in fact. There's so much stuff in this game that requires grind and time, namely engineers and naval ranking, getting credits doesn't have to be yet another thing. I thought I'd finally be free from the credit grind shackles at least, 4 billion in ships/stored modules and 2 billion spare in the bank. But with lots of new ships coming I see that money melting away fast. Though I might sell some of my current ships if something better for their roles comes on.

 

[ShimEnki]

Its only as clever as one baby step beyond the most clever reason these white knighted fanbois have to play and well..... we'll just leave it at that cmdr P

 

[Johnathlon]

Best thing that could happen to the game would be if the 'Goids hacked the credit currency system and reset everyone to zero, even better broke the payment system all together.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Like it was in the old days when you had to play for weeks to get a much needed Docking Computer (Elite I) or for days to switch (!) to another ship without being able to keep the old one (Elite II+).

Elite is and ever was a slow paced game and a grind. It was intended as an open sandbox of opportunities. Not an action simulator like Wing Commander.

Where does this fallacy come from? Install DosBox and go play FE2. I did not long ago and within 7 hours of gameplay I was flying a Panther Clipper. Weeks to get a docking computer? It doesn't even take 10 hours to get into the biggest ship in the game. The rate of progression in ED has been a sticking point for many since release. It's got f2p progression rates. The only difference between ED and a f2p title in terms of progression is that in ED, progression can't be accelerated with real money.

I will agree that earnings are a lot higher than they were on release day (particularly bounties), but the amount of in game time required to experience the high end ships is beyond ridiculous. I can't think of one other game (f2p or otherwise) that requires the hundreds of hours (without exploits) of play to unlock top tier (PVE) equipment that ED does.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

A lot of hyperbole in the OP. I've made 30Mil today. A combination of pax, kill pirate lord and cargo delivery. I've swapped around in a few ships for different roles.
Earning potential is vastly improved since I started playing.

 

[Zebaoth]

You can easily make 50-70mil an hour in an anaconda with economy cabins doing single jump passenger missions.
Or you can post on the forums, complaining about how hard it is to make money in game, while not playing the game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

After playing for nearly 2 years now, what I have noticed is that every update seems to wage war against earning currency. Every viable means of bypassing the tedium and frustration of Elite Dangerous seems to shrink with every update.

Each update removes former credit acquisition resources, with areas like Rhea and Quince being perfect examples. Frontier Development seems to have no problem with removing means to earn money in this game. Yet I notice they very rarely to never implement improvements to quality of life gameplay. Players are tasked with not only earning currency but also surviving the tedium of earning naval rank. A process which I have survived to earn my Corvette and sadly have no desire to repeat. I would be interested in owning an Imperial Cutter, however knowing that the daunting task of Naval rank would once again rear its ugly head, as well as having to grind the 2 billion plus credits to do so, well to say it is discouraging is an understatement.

Let us pay our foolishly loyal community pennies, while tasking them with amassing 2 billion credits..

From community goals with ridiculously pathetic payouts, a broken Mission Board with the same pathetic payouts, time-consuming and rare resource acquisition with abysmal drop rates, brutal Engineer unlock requirements and RNG, as well as tedious, torturous and unfun Naval rank acquisition. Is a 20 million credit Community Goal helping at all towards a two billion credit goal? I think not, especially not for a week of dedication. This however does not stop Frontier Development from removing every viable source of income acquisition that they can find. It is as if they indulge themselves at the prospect of the filthy Plebs toiling away for hours in the fields.

Yet there also exists the ever-so vocal reformed cheaters that support these changes. Since they have engorged themselves on a feast of skimmer and massacre missions, planetary scans etc, they now stand at the forefront of FD's tedium initiative.

Ever so ready to suggest new areas to neuter. Even though it is thanks to these people that the gameplay is so unrewarding and frustrating in the first place. Their incredible greed mandating most of the changes that have made the game so unfulfilling in many ways.

What is good for the goose is no longer good for the gander. They have their hot Corvettes, fully ranked Cutters, and both combat and exploration Anacondas ready to go! Fresh from the ED Chop Shop. These avatars of hypocrisy have found religion.

Hopefully one day this game will actually reward player effort properly and in a way that makes sense. Perhaps one day FD will consider trying to find new ways to make their game fun and not just new ways to make it more tedious, frustrating and unfulfilling. Rather than simply sending their players to dig ditches while giving them a spoon rather than a shovel. Here's hoping.

In the meantime I will continue trying to decide if Elite Dangerous is actually a video game or just a clever and insidious psychological and sociological experiment.

What is this progression you speak of. I have been playing for three years, have never done an exploit, not done any grinding, nor do I ever intend to and I don't have any of the big ships. The biggest I have is the python which I could only afford because I did the Guardian ruins quest.

 

[Pumabear8]

This. I don't even have a Conda yet (not really bothered anyway). I won't cheat myself, it's a game I just want have fun. Progression? it'll happen in it's own sweet time.

I consider it cheating myself when I'm hauling cargo back and forth for weeks for measly credits while there is a nice little earner being called an "exploit"

 

[Blasphemous One]

After playing for nearly 2 years now, what I have noticed is that every update seems to wage war against earning currency. Every viable means of bypassing the tedium and frustration of Elite Dangerous seems to shrink with every update.

Each update removes former credit acquisition resources, with areas like Rhea and Quince being perfect examples. Frontier Development seems to have no problem with removing means to earn money in this game. Yet I notice they very rarely to never implement improvements to quality of life gameplay. Players are tasked with not only earning currency but also surviving the tedium of earning naval rank. A process which I have survived to earn my Corvette and sadly have no desire to repeat. I would be interested in owning an Imperial Cutter, however knowing that the daunting task of Naval rank would once again rear its ugly head, as well as having to grind the 2 billion plus credits to do so, well to say it is discouraging is an understatement.

Let us pay our foolishly loyal community pennies, while tasking them with amassing 2 billion credits..

From community goals with ridiculously pathetic payouts, a broken Mission Board with the same pathetic payouts, time-consuming and rare resource acquisition with abysmal drop rates, brutal Engineer unlock requirements and RNG, as well as tedious, torturous and unfun Naval rank acquisition. Is a 20 million credit Community Goal helping at all towards a two billion credit goal? I think not, especially not for a week of dedication. This however does not stop Frontier Development from removing every viable source of income acquisition that they can find. It is as if they indulge themselves at the prospect of the filthy Plebs toiling away for hours in the fields.

Yet there also exists the ever-so vocal reformed cheaters that support these changes. Since they have engorged themselves on a feast of skimmer and massacre missions, planetary scans etc, they now stand at the forefront of FD's tedium initiative.

Ever so ready to suggest new areas to neuter. Even though it is thanks to these people that the gameplay is so unrewarding and frustrating in the first place. Their incredible greed mandating most of the changes that have made the game so unfulfilling in many ways.

What is good for the goose is no longer good for the gander. They have their hot Corvettes, fully ranked Cutters, and both combat and exploration Anacondas ready to go! Fresh from the ED Chop Shop. These avatars of hypocrisy have found religion.

Hopefully one day this game will actually reward player effort properly and in a way that makes sense. Perhaps one day FD will consider trying to find new ways to make their game fun and not just new ways to make it more tedious, frustrating and unfulfilling. Rather than simply sending their players to dig ditches while giving them a spoon rather than a shovel. Here's hoping.

In the meantime I will continue trying to decide if Elite Dangerous is actually a video game or just a clever and insidious psychological and sociological experiment.

Many people you are calling cheaters are poorer than you are, they are explorers who haven't seen bubble since ages, I completely agree with you on Engineer RNG issue, Sandro have a good news for you.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Ohhh boy we are doing another one, don't we.

Hello, I am resident white knight. And I am gonna tell you about story of the game who wanted just to be on it's own. It wanted to be slow, it wanted it to be atmospheric, and it wanted ship's death to mean something in it.

But modern gamers, no, modern gamers never take no for an answer. They demanded, stumped their feet, yelled, called every opponent white knight and explained that to play game "properly" in PvP, they needed rebuys at least four or five a day - and that kind of money make even laziest ensurer quite prompt.

Don't die. Don't let your ship die. Run away and come back. Fight smart.

 

[ROSS-128]

If every update wages war on earning credits, then they must be losing that war badly because earning credits is easier now than it has ever been. At least in general gameplay. All that ever really changes is where exactly you earn it.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

We need a nice "I don't know how to make credits" catchall thread for these kinds of posts.

Let's wind back time, to the week before the launch of 2.4

There were a pair of CG's, one for Liz Ryder, one for Professor Palin.

I made a marginal effort towards both, then the day before the release of 2.4, I packed up my Beluga, grabbed a passenger wanting to make a roughly 6,200 Ly trip.
I plotted out my first 500 Ly, which took me through the Coalsack Nebula, which has been on my list of places to visit for a while anyways.
Then I plotted my next 500 Ly, closer to where I was going, and off I went.

It didn't take long before I was in completely unvisited space, and started scanning, from the Primary Star to the last ball of ice in the system.

Then 2.4 launched, and I replotted my course, now that we have 20,000 Ly route plotting and the option to plot via dwarf and neutron stars.

I was at 200 Jumps to reach where I was going, and I went, scanning every square inch of space along the way.

On the 7th, I reached my destination and started my return trip. I made it back by late afternoon on the 8th.

It took me 17:50 to sell all my data and list all my first discoveries.

I dropped off my passenger and then went and collected my outstanding CG payments.

What did I make from all this? Around 63 million credits. Did I feel rewarded? Sure did.

Now, let's flip things around some more - now I'm back in the bubble, bought my 3rd Orca, outfitted it the way I want, flew it around, collected some replacement materials for what I used engineering my new ship and starting goofing around with it.

Took a passenger, blew up some bad guys, stuck some repair limpets to damaged miners, and... at the end of the day I made.. a whole 1.2 million credits. Did I enjoy my time spent? Very much so.

Let's flip this around once more, to about a week before - I bought an Anaconda, my second, outfitted it, engineered it, and found myself wanting for funds.

I know a great little spot to smuggle certain goods, so I opted to give my new Anaconda a go at this - first trip, 14.2m, second trip, 14.2m, third trip, 14.2m, then I switched to my Keelback which I keep in the area, as it's easier to land and made 3 more trip, each 14.2m. Total net, 85.2 million credits, each trip takes about 15 minutes give or take. That covered what I needed to make up for what I spent on outfitting, then it was back to doing other things. Was it fun? Well, there's a reason I only made 6 trips - yeah, it's fun for a little while, but after a few trips of running goods around, I'm ready for something else.

The point is, it's really not that hard to make credits, without having to rely on Gaming the Play and just playing the game.

 

[CMDR ANCALAGON]

As someone who started playing after Horizons, and who has not "cheated", and who has an Anaconda worth over $430 mil cr, an "A Classed" FDL and a few other small ships, a $300 mil Cr balance ($800 mil cr in assets) who has only just reached a lifetime earning of $1bn CR, and who only explores, runs random missions and participates in CGs (not trading though), AND who has faced 65 rebuys over my 748 hours, I am having a hard time relating to your perceived problem.

I've played for three hours this week and earned my $25 mil rebuy, and that is not counting the $18mil payout from the CG.

If I'm a "white knight" because my own quantifiable, data driven observations run counter to your outrage, then so be it.

You know, a big red flag may be that your whole premise seems to be constructed around this $2bn for a goal. If that is the measure, then yes it is very difficult and time consuming to amass that much money. Of course, $2bn dollars is not required for most of the things you listed. Have you considered lowering your target for happiness?


"This is too hard and not fair to new people!"

"I'm fairly new and have already done a lot of that!

"You're just a white knight, go away!"

 

[babelfisch]

No.

 

[Jenner]

I remember how expensive it was to buy a Cobra during the Alpha/Beta timeframe. Seemed like it was impossible! I felt so thrilled when I bought my first one, lol.

TL;DR Darn kids! Get off my lawn!!

 

[Darth Ender]

instead of crying about closing exploits. Maybe rally behind demanding that more work be put into making the intended activities less of a grind by making the goals of doing them not to only be a means to purchasing hundred million dollar ships.

Credits can only buy ships and the upgraded parts to ships. That makes every activity you do in the game basically amount to grinding so you can get a ship and it's respective loadouts.

More work needs to be put into the game to have other uses for credits. Or other non-credit rewards for completing an activity. Make the background simulation more meaningful, so that the various currently available rewards that aren't credits actually matter.

You wont get rid of the grind so long as there's only one thing the sad excuse for the game's economy allows players to actually reward themselves with.

Closing these stupid money give-away exploits is necessary. It should be done 10x more quickly and players should not benefit from them. But that's not going to fix what's really not working. If the above can be addressed....then we can easily lose any players who still want to try and fast track grind their way to huge multi-hundred million dollar ships without caring. It should take months if not years to amass great wealth in the game. Not a couple weeks. The entire thing falls apart when credits are worthless... as it already has for everyone not playing in their own reality bubble. Find a way that's not related to credits to make players feel like their accomplishments are accomplishments

 

[CmdrJacks]

FE2: trade some cheap agricultural goods to Barnard's Star, then go back and forth between Barnard's Star and Sol. You'll fairly quickly get onto Robotics/Luxury Goods as the trade items. Sell all weapons and defences for more hold space and starter cash - there are never any pirates in either system - and upgrade to a bigger hold size as money allows. Make full use of the "Seeking X" missions which let you sell an entire hold of Robotics/Luxury Goods at well over twice your purchase price.

Shh, don't tell everyone. Next you'll be giving away the illegal live animal or narcotics trades.

 

[Anthemeia]

I have a couple billion and all the big ships A-rated and maximally engineered. Nearly all of it I earned through a thousand hours of trading, and more recently CZs and mission/pax running. Here are nine theses on ED I have seen develop:

1. We make many more credits now than we did in 1.0. Credits are of the same limited use now as then. Their most important functions are as a player reward, either to acquire other rewards (like arcade tickets) or as symbolic in themselves (being rich as its own reward).

2. We have a lot more very expensive things to spend those credits on, but those things are a difference of scale rather than of kind. This makes credit rewards feel samey and shallow, except for the symbolic value of being rich.

3. Every update reveals a way to make huge money as something was broken and not caught by FD. This is normal and predictable in new releases, but has become particularly alienating of FD's characteristic response.

4. FD characteristically responds to its oversights in an extreme way, removing desirable gameplay across the galaxy, which feels like punishment, because that's how humans respond to the removal of any reward. It feels more like punishment because FD does not explain its decisions well. In other words, players feel punished when engaging with new ED content, because they lose access to a reward in a way that seems excessive and therefore unfair.

5. Little about the economy that players can engage makes any sense from a real-world perspective or even as a simplified approximation of real-world trading. As Sandro said on stage at FX17, their idea of giving traders tools is to help us "buy low and sell high," which is the dullest of all notions of a trade economy.

6. Since all we have as traders is ABA buy low sell high trade runs, which are unsustainable from a play perspective due to boredom, two of the core tenets of ED - "play your way" and "forge your own path" - are demonstrably false. Therefore ED's vision and its extant design are contradictory, which FD won't admit. (This principle extends to all other professions, mutatis mutandis.)

7. When players realize that the game-as-designed doesn't provide the experience they were marketed, they will seek to resolve their tension in other ways: leave the game, discuss online, change careers, become griefers, or engage in emergent opportunities that provide the gameplay they want (e.g., make lots of money through exploits or semi-exploits). The most desirable for FD is for players to change careers. The most desirable for players is to engage emergent opportunities. Thus, player and designer priorities are at odds.

8. This problem will remain until FD improves quality control to avoid such grand oversights, produces a game that does what they say it will do, or reinvents the in-game economy - and other features - such that it provides a richer play experience and aligns design and player priorities. Most players intuit these options if they don't know them intellectually.

9. None of those three options appears to be in the short- to medium-term roadmap. Most players intuit that the game will continue to be unsatisfying, and over time choose the remaining options: leave, grief, or discuss online.

So, here we are.

 

[Omicron Psi]

https://youtu.be/Sq2K1ti411U

I get your point, OP.

Have some rep...just for the tune.

 

[ROSS-128]

I do wish that we could have enough influence on the game's "economy" such as it is to kind of create and develop trade routes.

For example, you know a station takes ores and makes metals. You know another station takes metals and makes widgets. You know another station takes widgets and makes industrial machinery, etc.

So what if miners bringing in a megaton of ore could suppress the price of metals at the first station? What if a trader could then ship those metals to the widget station, suppressing the price of widgets but raising the price of ore, and so on?

I guess the main difficulty would be one of scale. Any individual station would be able to run a very simple algorithm to determine its prices, but it would add up when the server has to repeat it for billions of stations.

Making money is quite easy now, but I do wish the BGS felt a little more dynamic.