What is on your TRADING wish list?

[Colonel Kenney]

They said they are going to "Tweak" trading to be a little more useful for us. I hope they are going to make it MUCH MORE useful! They certainly didn't mention a complete overhaul or revamp. So all of your suggestions should be realistically possible. Almost all of the trading upgrades will really be UI changes and queries for data. It should not be very hard to do at all.

In the future age of computers we can fly around the galaxy so there is no reason why we should not have the ability to build massive trade databases in game. I know my wish list is huge and 95% of it won't be in there but all of it is completely doable and has been done in other games.

My Wish List

1) A "Trading Computer" similar to when you click on "engineers" or "galaxy map" where it takes you to a UI interface INSIDE YOUR SHIP. This gives us so much to do while we are flying, on the ground etc. This UI would not have "live" data but historical data you've downloaded at your last stop at a dock. If you are docked you would have local live data for the system you are in. This trading UI will have:
a) Graphs / Trends / Historical data
b) A local map or list of nearby systems within 100LY (or more) breaking down the economy, and its faction's states (Famine etc)
c) Ability to granularly delve into each system to get the last known pricing.
d) Ability to PIN commodities and stations to "compare" with others for profit/loss
e) Timestamps of the most recent information - and if docked the ability to purchase updated pricing at nearby stations - available at a cost.

2) Actual trading would continue to be done in the commodity market - the Trading Computer would simply be for research. However the Trading Computer would have the ability to xfer purchase orders and sale orders to the commodity market.

3) All the features you'd find in something like EDDB - Single route finders, Multi Hop finders. All very easily done in a ship based GUI.

4) Galactic or regional "emergency supplies needed" alerts. AKA Trading "hot spots" similar to community goals. These would pay much higher, require specific amounts of goods that will pop up throughout dozens of stations around the galaxy. These hot spots would be listed in the Trading Computer by distance and requirement.

5) Brokerage missions - You put your # of cargo slots, your destination and post a job wanted. The Commodity broker will find a job for you. Example - I'm taking passengers to Lembava but I have 128 Cargo free. There are no missions to take cargo there, there are no profitable products that want to go there. You post 128T of cargo available to haul (Legal or Illegal) to Lembava and wait. A timer is set and there is a random chance someone will spot you going there and require their goods to be xferred for a price. This is a way of "filling up" your ship.

6) Add some crazy difficult to find 2-5% chance of huge home runs. In other words keep these mini gold mines going. People call them exploits but I don't think they are. I believe in a free market you WILL HAVE GOLD RUSHES all around the galaxy that can last months until resources and supply/demand are met. Make an automated shifting of these really interesting runs. Make a unique run to a special faction who want fish and are willing to pay 2000% pricing. But the fish has to be from X planet. Call it a rich person who loves it so much they want to buy 1000 tonnes of it. You could creatively and procedurally write a bunch of easily repeatable stories with these unique runs. IE "Thurston Howell the Third has put out a call to pilots to bring him 1000 ton of Caviar from the shores of Lave Beach - deliver this for his party by tomorrow and you will be rewarded 25M".

n trucking when you are empty or partially empty it is called "deadheadding". Nobody likes to do that. It means you are not making money. We need to go to stations and 95% of the time have some commodity that needs to be moved profitably.

We as traders want the ability to have fun A) Searching for good paying jobs B) Having fun transporting the goods C) Being rewarded for delivering the goods multiple ways. Materials, faction, money.. D) Having a certain amount of risk can make it fun if wanted. This risk should only come in risky systems and outskirts of humanity.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

I like your ideas

 

[ethelred]

A lot of what you are asking for exists in the Trade Computer extension, that is an overlay of your UI. Link in sig, but appreciate it is PC only.

As such (and as it is provided by someone FOC) it's unlikely to be implemented by FDev.

I would much rather see a more volatile market for prices, meaning finding routes is much more rewarding, and there is a reason to visit far away stations, outposts and places off the beaten track for better profits.

I'd also like to see a buying and selling black market that deals in contraband for better prices but at a much higher risk.

I do like your 4, 5 and 6.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

I don't want an overlay that requires installation, maintenance incompatibilities etc. I'm sure its good and I may even look into it (I think I did once but couldn't get it running because of the .net issues) but you can't beat an in game fully supported trade computer. They (FD)have access to the actual raw data. Systems like that require the mercy of other pilots to update the data. It is NEVER reliable and I've lost money many times. It'll also be VR friendly. Not a knock on the TCE or anything just that I would prefer not needing to use external webpages to play the game! This was not supposed to be spreadsheets in space!

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Nobody gives a crap about trading? I wonder what % of people that play actually do trading as their profession? It must be low because they only mentioned small changes coming. Or most people are happy using exterior websites and exterior tools. Don't you people think it would be more convenient and more immersive if you did it all in game? Especially if you are a VR user!

 

[777Driver]

Nobody gives a crap about trading? I wonder what % of people that play actually do trading as their profession? It must be low because they only mentioned small changes coming. Or most people are happy using exterior websites and exterior tools. Don't you people think it would be more convenient and more immersive if you did it all in game? Especially if you are a VR user!

Only reason I use trade tools is for fetch missions. Everything else for system state trading is already in-game. Oculus Dash will also allow you to display apps/web pages whilst on the bridge in VRhttps://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/383990-Oculus-Dash

Nice ideas though

 

[Iskariot]

I hope we will eventually get a more juicy depiction of trade goods with illustrations of what we are trading. FD had some interesting concept art.
I think currently it is a bit too much spread sheet.


I would also like a much more interesting black market with an option to buy illegal stuff too.
There is a lot of potential there I think.


I would also like to see arms dealing to become a thing on its own, with its own dangers and quirks and reputation.
They could add more diverse weapon types and all kinds of shady stuff like having to exchange cargo with a client on the surface of a planet far from any outposts.
I would love to become and feel like a true arms dealer in the Elite galaxy.

 

[Stealthie]

I must say, I DO like the idea of ED deliberately, randomly, creating proper "gold rush" scenarios for short periods.

Perhaps it'd require a bit of "sim city" style mechanic operating within the BGS to create short-term events?
Random planet suffers catastrophic hurricane damage. Profits from selling Emergency Shelters escalate wildly for a few days.
Random planet has major technological problems as a result of computer virus. Profits from selling technology escalate wildly for a few days.
Random planet discovers foods supplies are contaminated. Profits from selling foodstuffs escalate wildly for a few days.

Put these events onto the Galnet "tickertape" and leave it up to people to notice and take advantage of the situation.

All it'd take would be to have a bit of a "brainstorming" session to think of a couple of dozen situations which could apply to every type of planet, and provide potential profits of one sort or another and then write a bit of code that creates, say, a 0.1% chance (or whatever level of chance would be appropriate to create 4 or 5 of these things in the bubble at a time) of these things happening at any planet at any time.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Actual freighters.

Let's look at the Emma Maersk:

Dimensions
Length overall (LOA)		1302' 6" (397 m)
Beam		183' 8" (56 m)
Tonnage
Gross		170,974 bt
Cargo capacity		15,000 TEU (1 TEU = 20 ft container)
Net		55,396 nt
Deadweight (DWT)		156,907 DWT
Power		80,080 kW (109,000 hp) Engine: Wartsila 14RT-Flex96c plus 40,000 hp from five Caterpillar 8M32
Speed		more than 25.5 knots, Cruise Speed - 31 mi/h
Crew		The ship has accommodation for 30 people, though the normal crew is only 13.
First Trip		Sept. 08, 2006
Construction cost		US $145,000,000+
Country of origin		Denmark

Let's compare that to some of our ships:
Ship Dimensions (in metres)

Ship	Length	Width	Height
Adder	31.5	28.8	9.6
Anaconda	152.4	61.8	31.0
Asp	56.5	51.3	19.7
Cobra	27.1	44.0	7.9
Eagle	31.2	29.7	7.1
Federal Dropship	73.9	52.3	21.7
Fer de Lance	73.6	51.6	15.4
Hauler	28.6	26.2	10.4
Imperial Clipper	106.7	103.7	24.8
Lakon Type 6	48.4	27.2	15.0
Lakon Type 7	81.6	56.1	25.4
Lakon Type 9 Heavy	117.4	115.3	33.2
Orca	130.4	50.8	22.7
Python	87.9	58.1	18.0

Now to be fair, the Emma Maersk is considered a "super-freighter" but we're not even anywhere close to matching the capacity - The maximum gross mass for dry cargo TEU is 52,910 lb: 47,770 lb (net load) + 5,140 lb (empty container weight). A 400-ton capacity Type-9 is barely over 15 TEU. Even the beloved Imperial Cutter at 700 tons is just a bit over 26 TEU. That 's NOT freight. That's Fed-Ex.
The Emma Maersk would have an Elite Cargo Capacity of 793,650,000 tons. Now THAT's freight.

Now clearly that much cargo would just be ridiculous - I've seen CG's complete with far less total contribution, but a good middle ground would be fantastic. I fear even the Panther Clipper will feel like a tandem box-truck in comparison to what cargo ships hold.

Even the Edmond Fitzgerald held 39,632 ton of cargo when she sank.

Length:	729 ft (222 m) 711 ft (217 m)
Beam:	75 ft (23 m)
Draft:	25 ft (7.6 m) typical
Depth:	39 ft (12 m)

Something to the tune of 2000 - 5000 tons of cargo would finally feel like an actual Freighter. I'm sure someone can figure out how to cram that into half the dimensions of the Edmond Fitzgerald, so it can fit on a large pad.

 

[Sneake Llama]

My biggest complaint is that... for the most part Imperial Slaves is the most profitable per ton, so therefore why would anyone solely trade anything else? Don't know how this can be fixed, but I like the idea of certain "missions" paying extra for ordinary commodities. Kinda like how if you want something NOW rather than LATER, you would pay extra for the shipping cost.

Granted, we kinda have that now with the delivery missions, but you just get the reward for delivering them. I want "extra" profit instead with the reward PLUS the profit of selling the deliverables. But, knowing how so many people get rump hurt over "making too much money", it will probably never happen.

 

[777Driver]

Actual freighters.


Something to the tune of 2000 - 5000 tons of cargo would finally feel like an actual Freighter. I'm sure someone can figure out how to cram that into half the dimensions of the Edmond Fitzgerald, so it can fit on a large pad.

Bulk freighters in ED are the ingame equivalent to Super freighters. If you look at the mass and freight tonnage of the bigger ED cargo ships, they are all very similar to current dedicated air freighters like the 747-800F/ An-225, although the upper limit of air freight tonnage is around 250 tonnes.

These ships are more like beefed up cargo aircraft, not super tankers.

 

[sidereal6]

5) Brokerage missions - You put your # of cargo slots, your destination and post a job wanted.

This is a neat idea and would be great for passenger missions too.

You say where you're planning (or willing) to go, and what kind of cabins you have, and people make offers to buy tickets. If you have a specialty passenger ship, you'd get more business/higher rates.

 

[Knightshark]

Many good suggestions here.

My must have improvement is a much, much better way to source stuff. I want a UI where i select a commodity, a ship, a module, and get a list of locations sorted by distance where i can get this.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Only reason I use trade tools is for fetch missions. Everything else for system state trading is already in-game. Oculus Dash will also allow you to display apps/web pages whilst on the bridge in VRhttps://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/383990-Oculus-Dash

Nice ideas though

There anything that works with the vive? I'm planning on buying one next year.

 

[777Driver]

There anything that works with the vive? I'm planning on buying one next year.

I think there is some beta software, best to check the VR forum. Fairly certain Vive will come up with something to rival Oculus Dash.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

I must say, I DO like the idea of ED deliberately, randomly, creating proper "gold rush" scenarios for short periods.

Perhaps it'd require a bit of "sim city" style mechanic operating within the BGS to create short-term events?
Random planet suffers catastrophic hurricane damage. Profits from selling Emergency Shelters escalate wildly for a few days.
Random planet has major technological problems as a result of computer virus. Profits from selling technology escalate wildly for a few days.
Random planet discovers foods supplies are contaminated. Profits from selling foodstuffs escalate wildly for a few days.

Put these events onto the Galnet "tickertape" and leave it up to people to notice and take advantage of the situation.

All it'd take would be to have a bit of a "brainstorming" session to think of a couple of dozen situations which could apply to every type of planet, and provide potential profits of one sort or another and then write a bit of code that creates, say, a 0.1% chance (or whatever level of chance would be appropriate to create 4 or 5 of these things in the bubble at a time) of these things happening at any planet at any time.

In reality people will keep good runs secret as long as they can - however once word gets out it spreads like fire. The california gold rush for example. So you WOULD hear about it in the news.

This is where I think in the "Contacts" section there should be some form of "information broker" or bartender where you pay them for such tidbits of information.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

I think there is some beta software, best to check the VR forum. Fairly certain Vive will come up with something to rival Oculus Dash.

That dash looks cool. I'm just wondering how well it will work with an actual game loaded in the background that is already commanding quite a bit of processing power. Going to need some serious rigging to get that to work. I've had a good system for a long time but the vid card can run ED full 1080 max settings but if i go with a vive I'm positive I'm going to need to get a $500+ video card to run ED and other apps at the same time with a Vive etc.

 

[Anthemeia]

1. Getting out of the ABA trucking business. I'm a multibillionaire. I want to buy/build my own consortium. Where I'm at with trade is like if Mark Zuckerberg were personally still building databases. Let me be the magnate my bank account says I should be!

2. Balancing goods transport with trade missions. Ever since missions got bumped, bulk trading is not as good as trade missions. I make much more stacking 20 missions and filling my cargo hold with miscellaneous goods than I do trading from the commodity market. Spec trading goods should be high risk-high reward. Trade missions should be low risk-low pay.

3. Implement Trade Contracts: You know how CZ massacre missions require you to knock out X number of enemies for a juicy payout? What about a trade contract that requires you to haul X tons of goods to a station over multiple trips for a big payout? ("Suchnsuch Station needs to offload a surplus of crop harvesters. Transport 10,000 tons, and we'll pay you 15 million.") Tie these into the BAGS, so they're more likely to appear in certain states or at stations that get ignored so long that their supply is too high. Even better, include tech from long range passenger missions: faction hires you to complete a circuit among these four stations for a big payout.

4. Create constrained situations where players can exchange goods and credits directly. If I can make my own trade consortium and hire a couple new pilots (PC or NPC) to help me with trade missions, I'd be thrilled with this game and play for years to come.

5. Implement Tycoons. Just like Engineers, there could be trillionaire magnates across the galaxy. Unlock them, and you can get access to special modules (overstuffed cargo racks, special smuggling gear) or special trade opportunities. For example, Abe Froman is the Sausage King of Achenar, and he'll give you special trade contracts for hauling food commodities, special combat missions for disrupting competitors, and a special decal branding you as one of his.

5. At a smaller scale, you could unlock a trade buff at a certain station who gives you a bonus while trading there for a certain period of time (maybe +10% bulk trade income) but occasionally makes demands of you to maintain the relationship (we have a a VIP that needs to get into and out of Sol discreetly). Failing to uphold the deal means jeopardizing a lucrative arrangement.

In short, I want to see a more personal trading culture in the game, not just more tools to parse data in game.

 

[Imgran]

How about this:

Trade Database Terminal. computer granting access to the Universal Cargo Solutions trade database and paying a small premium (say 5,000 credits) for updated trade data for every station with a Commodities market that you visit and access the commodities terminal. That doesn't sound like a ton but if you're trading fulltime it would add up quickly, especially for the kind of new player who needs help getting out of their sidewinder and REALLY getting into trade. This would mean that for the most-visited stations, trade data would be up to the minute.

Slap on a premium that adds a sliding scale reward for trade data from less visited stations, up to a maximum of 10,000 credits for a station that hasn't had an upload of their commodities prices within the last month, and you have a diaspora mechanic that makes it much easier to get newbies to leave the newbie area.

That information is then updated into the Trade Database, which functions like UC and guides traders in game by providing them with data on the best prices for their good within their jump range, or within the range of a selectable number of your jumps (in other words, if you want the best price within 3 jumps, and your jump range is 30LY, it will calculate that based on available price within 90 LY).

The more traders upload price data to the Trade Database the more accurate it is, and traders with a Trade Database Terminal can spend a 1000cr fee for the Database to crunch the best available place to sell their cargo and display it and a link to the Galaxy Map. This would be accessed from the Inventory screen on the righthand terminal.

For big players that's a pittance, 1000cr for the best local price is easily worth spending, but for little guys, it's an incentive to go off the beaten track and find markets for yourself so that you're selling to ECS rather than having to buy.

Basically take the EDDB concept and put it in the game with reinforcing game mechanics and make it gameplay instead of metagaming. That way you can pick up a small trade income in a Sidey just from flying from point to point and selling the commodities data to UCS, and much heavier trade concerns will pay Universal Cargo Solutions.

 

[Stealthie]

In reality people will keep good runs secret as long as they can - however once word gets out it spreads like fire. The california gold rush for example. So you WOULD hear about it in the news.

This is where I think in the "Contacts" section there should be some form of "information broker" or bartender where you pay them for such tidbits of information.

If it worked properly, it wouldn't really matter.

If half a dozen CMDRs noticed a "gold rush" event starting they might be able to milk it for several days.
If hundreds of CMDRs noticed then it'd be over in a few hours.

That'd create an element of uncertainty and risk.
If you see one happen, do you drop everything and try to take advantage, even if it might only last for hours, or do you ignore it?
Conversely, if you decide to ignore it, maybe most other people will too, in which case it might be very profitable for a couple of days.
And, will it attract the PvP sharks?

It could certainly be "tweaked", though, so that things like, perhaps, naval rank, status with local factions or superpowers might provide specialised information.
Perhaps the "tip-off" system could be modified to provide players with this information, aside from just offering hokey random missions?