Frontier- You Have My Support

[Tadeus72]

Well, all of the KS backers, that didn't get what was promised have my sympathy and I can understand them being upset.

But other than that? I don't care They've helped with their money to create the game I love, so yeah, thanks and bad luck for you

This game is still pretty young for an online game, so I'm not really surprised that people with over 1000 gaming hours feel there isn't much to do for them. I'm quite happy with what is already there, which doesn't mean I don't want tonnes of changes and new things. I agree that there is a lot missing when it comes to meaningful gameplay, but as a roleplayer I mostly enjoy the small immersion things. The sounds, the shadow play, the scrathes on windows and the paintjob, the different voices in stations, and the stations, outpost and planetary bases themselves, the system that is randomizing their elements is ingenious. I have visited hundreds of them and still find new ones that look uniqe, with the different light and steam colors and new elements in hangars that I haven't seen before. It really feels real, despite it being randomized. It's pure art.

 

[Jorge Palu]

As long as you realize, that there are quite a lot of ppl who want them to use the nerf hammer more often ( cut down on these insane mission payouts pls.) and voice this in your critique ( Less mission income takes away from the game for me NOT is a really dumb game design desicion and kills the game for everyone bc only unlimted funds is fun .. ) OP is with you.

I wasn’t referring to credit nerfs.
They have nerfed more things than just mission credits. Some things were nerfed into non-existence. Take Robigo slave running missions. These were some of the best fun I have had in the game, and were well worth the credits due to the constant interdictions, and instant fail on scan. Videos popped up, people complained about too many credits being made per hour and boom, instead of dialing things back but leaving the fun missions, they need hammered it to non-existence. Long range hauling missions copped the same death stroke as well. Mining copped a flogging when the Engineering cancer was introduced to the game and we had the (now worthless) engineering commodities thrown into the mix when mining an asteroid.

These are examples where (in my opinion) they have killed parts of the game that I love to play. Credits are important to people starting out in the game and are needed if you want to progress through to the end game ships. Lower them by all means, but Frontier needs to stop killing off the different fun ways we had to earn them.

It’s stuff like this that frustrates me in the game I love.

 

[NecoMachina]

I'm a huge Elite fan. I played the other three games to death and then some in the 80s and 90s.

So when Frontier launched their Kickstarter to do Elite IV I backed big... bigger than was really sensible at the time (>£1000) because I was desperate to see the game made.

I contributed to the DDF, spent hours on here formulating my thoughts and thinking about the specifications FD were presenting and using all my dev experience (30 years) to find holes in what they were putting forward. It was an enjoyable and exciting time.

Offlinegate sickened me. Truly. Both figuratively and literally. I won't go into details, but it wasn't good. Frontier deserve zero credit for how they handled that. Similarly, the way they discarded and ignored the DDF's work was (and is) disgraceful. Since then, I had a love hate relationship with this game, and by extension, Frontier themselves. I threw the game away in disgust, and didn't touch it for about a year.

Then, last year, when I was off work sick, I decided to load it up... just to see. Ended up pumping about 500 hours into it. I realised then that what E: D was, was a nice version of FFE, with modern graphics. And at the end of the day, that was all I really wanted when I backed the game on Kickstarter. I think that goes for a lot of backers tbh.

I've now put over 1000 hours in (which means I got my money's worth by my criteria of £1=1 hour gameplay) and taking a break again because there isn't much left for me to do in the game (that I want to do), and I don't want to reset my save and do it all again. So I'm eagerly awaiting Beyond.

TL;DR Frontier have my support, but it is guarded (always will be after Offlinegate) and in terms of making the game enjoyable for older players, utterly dependant on what comes next in Beyond. There are things in the game I absolutely adore, but just as many things that annoy me or even make me angry. I will always call them out when I see them.

People need to remember this post when accusing someone who criticizes the game of "not even playing the game" or "well, this probably isn't your type of game - go play CoD" or whatever. I'm much the same - LOVED the original games. I didn't back the Kickstarter, but noone can accuse me of Elite not being my type of game when they try to dismiss my criticism.

And as for why criticisms aren't always phrased in a respectful way... FDEV has LOST the respect of many who used to love them. Everyone points to how passionate David and the team are about the game, and about science, and how they are great people. I point to how they handled offline-gate. Despicable. I treat everyone with respect until they prove to me they don't deserve it.

Now I don't make it a point to disrespect them, but I'm not pulling any punches on the truth bombs either.

 

[Bondrewd The Novel]

I support the FD, but I do not stop from making constructive criticism: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/384087-Frontier-is-really-capable-to-truly-change-the-face-of-the-planets-in-2018
The first thing does not rule out the second one, made evil criticisms or empty compliments is always deleterious.

 

[Loth Tear]

There's been a lot of threads this week about absolute crap. People trying to stir the pot with unfounded allegations, taking facts out of context, or just outright deliberate lying. From the phrasing of some of them, I doubt if they've even played the game they are trashing.

I've been a customer of Frontier since Jan 2015 (v1.0.) Since buying Elite, I have encountered a few major bugs that were fixed relatively quickly. Certainly nothing that affected my game play for any significant time period. There's been some disappointing releases that could have been implemented better and they are being addressed in Beyond. There's been a few controversies because of communication foul-ups, but they were sorted out, usually to the customers benefit.

Some players have bashed and harangued the devs over the smallest pieces of information in the past and up to today. Just one example: Three words in a livestream, "Winter is coming" caused a spew of verbal diarrhea that went on for over eighty pages in one thread alone. If a dev mentions anything off-the-cuff in a livestream the forums explode with speculation based on few, if any, actual facts. And you wonder why they don't communicate with us anymore?

People who criticize Frontier need to go buy games from other companies to see just how well they have it here. I owned a computer games company and I would have killed to have a motivated staff like the Frontier devs. Talented, forthright people who truly love what they do. Well, until they read some of the drivel generated on these forums. Maybe they think negativity will somehow speed the devs up. Good luck with that.

Today, I have three accounts, two of them with LEP's and I'd buy a third in a heartbeat if given the chance. I do appreciate the fact Frontier are giving us a year of FREE updates in Beyond. Thank you for that ladies and gentlemen. As a multiple LEP owner I don't feel "cheated" or "sold short" by any means. The LEP's are long term investments and I know that Elite will be developed for many years to come. The value of my LEP's will be eclipsed by what gets delivered to me in time. Yet, there are some here who feel a years worth of upgrades for nothing is a bad thing? Good lord.

People have called me a fanboi in the past, because of my optimistic posts. A fanboi sees no faults in the thing they promote. I've been critical of some Frontier decisions and I see faults, take a look at the list of bugs I've submitted, but I also see them being fixed and improved as time goes by. Elite isn't perfect, but I'm not expecting perfection. I just want a game to take my mind off the real world for two hours a night. Elite does that, because it's a damned good game, getting better all the time.

I prefer to think of myself, and I'd like Frontier to consider me, a satisfied customer to date.

Haters, trolls and the eternally negative are entitled to their opinion. That's mine.

I agree! I'm a very satisfied customer too. And after about 1050 hours of ED I have some criticism, lots of ideas how things could be improved, but I'm a very satisfied customer overall.

More than that, most of the haters sound just like any other generic game haters tou see on any other game's forums. Their rantings are as useless and unconstructive as they are detached from reality, based mostly on a teenage need for spotlights.

I don't care being called a fanboi. In fact, I'm glad I can play a game I'm so satisfied with. The lives of people that waste so much time ranting about a game they don't like instead of moving on must be pretty sad. Fanbois have a great time.

 

[Loth Tear]

Another characteristic condescending thread created by fanboi OP to undermine legitimate criticism.

By condescending you mean not as full of teenage angst as the haters posts and by legitimate you mean YOUR opinion?

Ok. I get it.

 

[NecoMachina]

Started off good...

I agree! I'm a very satisfied customer too. And after about 1050 hours of ED I have some criticism, lots of ideas how things could be improved, but I'm a very satisfied customer overall.

...but then came the typical insults and dismissals.

More than that, most of the haters sound just like any other generic game haters tou see on any other game's forums. Their rantings are as useless and unconstructive as they are detached from reality, based mostly on a teenage need for spotlights.

Ugh. [blah]

 

[sqzbox1]

Well, they have my support also. I'm a KS and I do not feel short changed at all. I don't give a rat's a.. about a decal. And if something turns out to be impossible it is wise to recognise the reality of the situation, accept it, and move on - sometimes life bites. So what? No song and dance is going to make it happen, and no amount of vitriol directed towards the cause of your angst is going to help either. Suck it up! Grow up and learn that sometimes things don't go the way you want them too. Put your energy into something that actually matters - like eliminating plastic bags from the world, or join Greenpeace and help save the whales or something. It's all about priorities, and to me the fact that FD delivered a game, and one that is continually being refined and improved, is astonishing and I am grateful to have it to play.

 

[Macros Black]

Love ED and respect FD for the product they've created. However, I do wish they'd take another look at annoying bugs like instancing problems with freezes and ctd's.

 

[Dutchman141]

Although I have my opinions about some aspects of the game ED is my all time favourite game and FD is the company that made it and is still making it.
I support FD because of this magnificent game and will do so as long as I am able to play ED.

There's just no comparable game out there like ED especially on console.
I've played most Elite lookalikes but nothing beats the real thing, my 1984 dream has become reality with ED.

Although I complain sometimes about things I would like to see different, it's because I'm passionate, FD is boss and ED my number one game.

Enough compliments they might get complacent

 

[Old Duck]

It is the use of language that puts so many posts in discredit. And why do some folks think critic and suggestions to the Devs must sound harsh? Is this working in RL? I don’t think so.
I welcome Commanders who point out shortcomings and bugs of ED, but too many critics are just childish rants garnished with swear words.

FWIW, I liked, and still do, your OP on this topic - the love of ED. It was nice, simple, and allowed people have problems with the game and still love the game. Sometimes less (words) is more [up]

 

[Rorkan]

Bravo to the OP. Another satisfied customer here.

On a personal note, this game has generated the closest thing to a religious experience for me. When I first jumped into supercruise and started zooming around a star system, my heart skipped a beat, and when I watch the videos from deep-space exploration, I am as moved as when watching videos of actual human space endeavours. ED has been a dream realized for me, and I hope it continues to be for a long, long time. Playing the original Elite as a kid had its effect, and FrontierE2 basically made me as a gamer, but this current version has the added layer of presenting the galaxy in visual ways that simply were impossible for the earlier games. The verisimilitude of current-day graphics makes for an experience with such a magnified impact that it cannot be overstated.

So, from a happy player, thanks FDEV. Right on, Commanders!

 

[Marc_Hicks]

There's been a lot of threads this week about absolute crap. People trying to stir the pot with unfounded allegations, taking facts out of context, or just outright deliberate lying. From the phrasing of some of them, I doubt if they've even played the game they are trashing.

I've been a customer of Frontier since Jan 2015 (v1.0.) Since buying Elite, I have encountered a few major bugs that were fixed relatively quickly. Certainly nothing that affected my game play for any significant time period. There's been some disappointing releases that could have been implemented better and they are being addressed in Beyond. There's been a few controversies because of communication foul-ups, but they were sorted out, usually to the customers benefit.

Some players have bashed and harangued the devs over the smallest pieces of information in the past and up to today. Just one example: Three words in a livestream, "Winter is coming" caused a spew of verbal diarrhea that went on for over eighty pages in one thread alone. If a dev mentions anything off-the-cuff in a livestream the forums explode with speculation based on few, if any, actual facts. And you wonder why they don't communicate with us anymore?

People who criticize Frontier need to go buy games from other companies to see just how well they have it here. I owned a computer games company and I would have killed to have a motivated staff like the Frontier devs. Talented, forthright people who truly love what they do. Well, until they read some of the drivel generated on these forums. Maybe they think negativity will somehow speed the devs up. Good luck with that.

Today, I have three accounts, two of them with LEP's and I'd buy a third in a heartbeat if given the chance. I do appreciate the fact Frontier are giving us a year of FREE updates in Beyond. Thank you for that ladies and gentlemen. As a multiple LEP owner I don't feel "cheated" or "sold short" by any means. The LEP's are long term investments and I know that Elite will be developed for many years to come. The value of my LEP's will be eclipsed by what gets delivered to me in time. Yet, there are some here who feel a years worth of upgrades for nothing is a bad thing? Good lord.

People have called me a fanboi in the past, because of my optimistic posts. A fanboi sees no faults in the thing they promote. I've been critical of some Frontier decisions and I see faults, take a look at the list of bugs I've submitted, but I also see them being fixed and improved as time goes by. Elite isn't perfect, but I'm not expecting perfection. I just want a game to take my mind off the real world for two hours a night. Elite does that, because it's a damned good game, getting better all the time.

I prefer to think of myself, and I'd like Frontier to consider me, a satisfied customer to date.

Haters, trolls and the eternally negative are entitled to their opinion. That's mine.

I'm with you, Shadragon. The game is by no means perfect, & I have certainly criticised some of their design choices & priorities-but as someone who has played since December 2014, I've not known a game that has managed to hold my attention for so long, & the game has definitely come along in leaps & bounds since then. I confess, however, that even I was beginning to lose faith around the middle of this year.....but the road map laid out in the Expo has reinvigorated my enthusiasm.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Really? Because what I found sickening is how Frontier handled the situation. Some people were interested in the game, but refused to buy in until they were assured that there would be an offline mode. Did Frontier try to do an offline mode? I'm 100% confident they did. I attribute no malice at all to them on this.

But when it was announced that there wouldn't be offline after all, some people who were ONLY interested if offline was a thing, wanted a refund. Frontier took WAAAAAAY longer than a reasonable timeframe to get back to them. We're talking weeks and weeks. And then when these people did hear back from Frontier, they were offered a 70% refund (I believe? I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was not a full 100% refund). And IIRC the reasoning that a FULL refund was not offered was because they were "playing" and testing the game for some time during the pre-release alphas and betas?

That was a pretty scummy move by Frontier. That was not how an honorable, upstanding company should have handled that situation. Were some of the customers angry? Absolutely. Was there a level of vitriol? Yes, absolutely. That does not excuse Frontier's handling of the situation. If you change the product before launch, and you take out a key feature that was the ONLY reason these people were interested in the game (and they were VERY clear about that), then when they ask for a refund, a full refund should be given, no questions asked. And it shouldn't have taken over a month for those people to even have heard back from support.

Quite frankly, Frontier was the one that acted in a disgusting manner in that situation.

As it happens, I wanted an offline version way back when I pre-ordered the game......but when they explained *why* it couldn't be done, I was cool with it.....and we got solo mode.....which seemed a reasonable compromise. That said, I went to Open in January 2016.....and wouldn't go back to solo now.

 

[NecoMachina]

As it happens, I wanted an offline version way back when I pre-ordered the game......but when they explained *why* it couldn't be done, I was cool with it.....and we got solo mode.....which seemed a reasonable compromise. That said, I went to Open in January 2016.....and wouldn't go back to solo now.

The lack of offline mode isn't a problem for me. The way they handled the refund situation is a HUGE problem for me.

 

[CmdrKull]

The lack of offline mode isn't a problem for me. The way they handled the refund situation is a HUGE problem for me.

They certainly created some enmity back then. I always thought most of that was general frustration with the lack of offline mode, the doors that closed for some people, and the expectations it created for some other people. 1/2 the posted we’re talking about their 1/7000th mbps internet connection that was mostly made of rusted barbed wire to their lonely island, and the other half were complaining that Frontier were making WoW and that it’d go subscription-only soon. In all that, I missed the legitimate complaints about refund hassles.

However, here we are a few years later. If you’re still here you really shouldn’t have a problem with the lack of offline mode. Plenty of time to adjust, obviously a decent return on investment, and still no subscription model in sight.

I’m clearly in this for the long-haul. I’m happy to stay I’m a fan; of Frontier, of the Cobra engine, and of all things Elite. Raise a glass to the 10 year plan.

 

[raok]

I dont really know why people think that critical people are not supporting?

Critical, saying negative "things" is often helping more than just saying GG.

Frontier Development has failed so many times that it is amazing me. I have understood that ED is still a big technical demo but not a game. They do not have anyone who understands how to make a good game. Sad but unfortunately true.

PvE content is expensive, and in my opinion it is pretty damn bad in ED. Why I cannot be critical and say that when you released Wings, you should have released content for wings as well. Why saying this obviously failed development decision is so bad? Basically the same as if in MMORPG we introduce 5 man raid groups but we do not introduce any raids. Then we say that 3 years later you will get raids as well. So tell me why this is not a major g fail? This is like mega fail in game development and frontier should get feedback that they have earned from this move. I like ED, I think it is an awesome technical demo, awesome platform for a game.

PvP content is easier, it is cheap to produce. PvP players entertain each other longer than any PvE game can do. We have 0 real PvP content. If I am critical and saying that FD, you really failed hard here. Just stating the facts mam. They should have implemented PvP content because that is so cheap to implement. They gave us PP that NONE asked. Also PP is separated from BGS which makes it double fail. Why I am not allowed to say this? Why being critical here is not the right thing to do? It is the right thing to do.

Many wanted to be bad, they wanted to be pirates. They made piracy to be unplayable. Am I not allowed to say that they failed here and hard? Is being critical here somehow bad for FD? I dont think so.

Saying that everything is ok when clearly is not -> Is a fail from community.

I have been every now and then reading this forum and I think major issue here is that our community is full of fan boys that are always saying that all is ok. It does not matter how hard they fail, you guys say GG. Then you fans repeat these insanely useless threads here. You are also toxic vs anyone who is critical. Every post I write there has to be one super fanboy saying that I should go to play another game. Lets stop it here. Why should I go to play another game? I think ED can be an awesome game, it is awesome platform. Why I am not allowed to be critical and hope that FD understands that they have failed hard multiple times. Why I should not follow this forum even tho I am not playing the game anymore? I say that I am a rare case, that has still hope for ED. Why should I go to play another game? I shall not.

1. FD fix your development priorities.
2. Learn to see the difference between technical demo and computer game. Making tech demo is like cultivating fields, making a game from it is the harvest time. Your tech demo is awesome, takes years before you run out of content possibilities. I know 100 guys who did not care an F from multicrew, they are just waiting for more to do in you game. 235% focus to content please.
3. Stop listening fanboys who ask people to leave your game. You could even make a forum rule to stop this toxic spam. I know tens of guys who stopped writing here because the forum is so toxic.
4. I have to wait 3 years before you make content for wings. Seriously, this is something where I can be super-duper-ultra-mega critical!
5. No PvP content, which is pure PvP not PvE floodable. Another serious mistake. Super-duper-ultra-mega-hyper critical here! Maybe just the biggest market sector in gaming and you guys were happy to ignore them.

...

I suppose that is enough rant for now...

 

[Jack Schitt]

And if something turns out to be impossible it is wise to recognise the reality of the situation, accept it, and move on - sometimes life bites. So what? No song and dance is going to make it happen [...]

Except that in the case of Offline, a song and dance was necessary. Not to "make [the impossible] happen" but to get FD to acknowledge that they had a commitment under UK consumer legislation to refund or compensate for the missing feature. It was sad that it took so much bad press to effect this, but you've no idea how messy things could have got if it had ended up in court. FD might actually have won with regards to KS pledges, because the whole crowdfunding thing was very new and largely untested, but the games they'd sold through the Backers' App would have put them on very shaky ground. Either way they would not have come out smelling of roses. Fortunately FD did the right thing, eventually. But the bad taste remains.

The lack of offline mode isn't a problem for me. The way they handled the refund situation is a HUGE problem for me.

Nutshell.

However, here we are a few years later. If you’re still here you really shouldn’t have a problem with the lack of offline mode. Plenty of time to adjust, obviously a decent return on investment, and still no subscription model in sight.

I don't think anyone here is still salty about not being able to play offline (although there are those who cleave to FD's "promise" to release the server code should the game die, and I suspect they might be in for a rude awakening too). We just have long memories of what FD tried to get away with when they pulled the feature. FD has become much better at handling their commitments over the intervening years, putting together great Community and Support Teams who've done a stellar job (a couple of blips notwithstanding) at herding the cats. But there'll always be this nagging feeling of "fool me once..." lurking at the back of the minds of some players, especially backers, who'll be keeping a cautious eye on what FD does in case they try something similar. The likelihood of a repeat is low, but when someone has previously tried to pull the mother of all fast ones, absolute trust can be difficult to regain.

It's a shame that we keep having to dredge this up, but it seems as though some members of the community never understood that the concept of "you pays your money and you takes your chances" doesn't really apply in the UK. UK/EU has some of the strongest consumer protection legislation in the world, and for a British company to take money from British consumers through a UK website, then remove an advertised feature from the product and refuse compensation, was an astonishingly daft thing to do.

It staggers me to this day that FD (and especially David Braben, who wrote the piece in which the bad news was buried and presumably directed the response) believed they'd get away with it. Maybe they thought the goodwill they'd seen during KS and early development would carry over and people would happily write off that part of their "investment" in favour of seeing the game funded. How wrong they were. Sometimes it takes a lot to pee off a Brit, but trying to rip us off is a fast-track to pitchfork land.

 

[lysan]

I believe many of The players who are very positive towards FD also give critique regarding ED development. I don't think we disagree in how some of the situations was handled.

However the only way to get through to the developers are by using facts and explain why XY is not working. Maybe we are not always right, however at least we presented the case in a reasonable manner and we know FDEV do listen to reason.

 

[sqzbox1]

Fortunately FD did the right thing, eventually. But the bad taste remains.

But they DID do the right thing. In the commercial world delays are a reality. Tried getting credit for anything ordered on-line before? The only reason bad taste remains is because people like you keep feeding it.

It's a shame that we keep having to dredge this up

No - we don't. Again, it is the people who keep feeding the fire of "bad taste" that keep dredging it up.

We just have long memories

Which "we" are we talking about here? I'm not in that "we". But I suspect all the people like yourself who keep dredging it up AND feeding the fire of bad taste are.

Learn to see the difference between technical demo and computer game.

What nonsense! Aim that accusation at SC. FD have actually delivered. Perhaps it isn't exactly what you want, or matched your priorities, but don't you go talking for me.