FDevs does everything have to be a grind?

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Oh so that's why my ship slows down for no reason. Or my kinetic weapons have distance damage fall off. Or why it's impossible to get into orbit. Or why I can't land on certain planets. Or..

well you get the idea.

It *tries* to simulate space and space life. It is not pure simulation, but it puts quite an effort to make feel of space commander *life*, both with boring and adventure parts.

It tries to make commander life interesting with changing galaxy on every step. It also tries not to give all tools away too easily.

 

[Jex =TE=]

according to the blurb WOT and Warthunder are MMOs... I would say ED is more of an MMO than them.

look at the BGS, at a very literal sense how is it NOT an mmo ... which is not to say its a good mmo or that it is the kind of thing many expect from an mmo.

me personally i love it and want to play it more than any other "general" mmo in existance.

but that said i am not sure of your point... it seems to be you AGREE with David Braben... ie

" But in most ways that people will judge it, Elite: Dangerous is not an MMO."

of course from a marketing point of view, like i said, when WarThunder is successfully marketed as an mmo (where as i would say its a multiplayer Arena Shooter) it would be naive to expect FD to NOT market ED as one.

But then FPS are MMO's because they share a leaderboard and you can compete with other people to get on that leaderboard. Those tanks games could be MMO's in the definition you posted but when we say MMO we mean Eve, WoW, Black Desert - games like that. That's how we categorised those games.

Just because ED "shares" a server with it's player base means nothing. Most games "share" a server with their player base. I could set up a Falcon 4 server that can only hold 32 people at a time but over the course of a month had 20,000 people connect and play on it - does that make Falcon an MMO - no.

But they all affect the war (and their affect is persistant). Is Arma an MMO because of Amra Life?

Typically btw, PVP games aren't MMO's I don't think. So WOT and WT wouldn't class as they're PVP focused?

 

[Jex =TE=]

It *tries* to simulate space and space life. It is not pure simulation, but it puts quite an effort to make feel of space commander *life*, both with boring and adventure parts.

It tries to make commander life interesting with changing galaxy on every step. It also tries not to give all tools away too easily.

Oh so the "boring parts" were actually designed in by Braben... interesting.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

But then FPS are MMO's because they share a leaderboard and you can compete with other people to get on that leaderboard. Those tanks games could be MMO's in the definition you posted but when we say MMO we mean Eve, WoW, Black Desert - games like that. That's how we categorised those games.

Just because ED "shares" a server with it's player base means nothing. Most games "share" a server with their player base. I could set up a Falcon 4 server that can only hold 32 people at a time but over the course of a month had 20,000 people connect and play on it - does that make Falcon an MMO - no.

But they all affect the war (and their affect is persistant). Is Arma an MMO because of Amra Life?

Typically btw, PVP games aren't MMO's I don't think. So WOT and WT wouldn't class as they're PVP focused?

all of which is your interpretation (and much of which is kind of what i think of as well when it comes to an mmo) and also mirrors well with what David Braben said above.. so we agree then i think?

ED shares *some* characteristics of an mmo, and in a totally literal sense IS an mmo, but it is not an mmo in the sense of what most people expect an mmo to be. ED is not a typical mmo and arguably is not a GOOD mmo either (in my view its a cracking multiplayer space rpg however)

however regardless of what you think of games like Warthunder they ARE actively sold as mmos, therefore it would be insanity for FD not to drink from that cash stream as well dont you agree?

(top line of the warthunder blurb Join most realistic Combat MMO & fight with over 10 Million Players. )
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[EUS]

I agree with the OP, which is why I don't log in too often anymore.
I'll play for a few hours a week for a couple weeks, then let it go for a month.
Beyond has to deliver the promises of drastically improving the fundamentals of this game.
From missions to USS to everything RNG, much of the core should be rebooted.

 

[mbar]

I know some players appreciate the grind as game-play. Their logic being you shouldn't be able to get into an anaconda in 2 days.

Personally, I'd like to be able to reset my save regularly as i do in games like Skyrim or X-Rebirth. Granted those games are single player only but that is the kind of progression I'd like to see in ED. I'd like to try different role-plays out and reset as I go.

Now that I've finally made Elite and restored my Fed and Imp rank after a series of save resets, I doubt I'll ever reset a save again.

 

[babelfisch]

I know some players appreciate the grind as game-play. Their logic being you shouldn't be able to get into an anaconda in 2 days.

Personally, I'd like to be able to reset my save regularly as i do in games like Skyrim or X-Rebirth. Granted those games are single player only but that is the kind of progression I'd like to see in ED. I'd like to try different role-plays out and reset as I go.

Now that I've finally made Elite and restored my Fed and Imp rank after a series of save resets, I doubt I'll ever reset a save again.

I don't appreciate the grind as game play, I consider it to be the actual game. Apparently you consider sitting in your Anaconda and doing nothing to be the game, because doing something would be grinding.

OK then your reply didn't say that at all (and I'm the one not making sense...ohh la la lol). What's wrong with complaining about a crap part of the game? If he was complaining about unneccessary grind, why tell him to play something else - that doesn't make sense lol

(Maybe it's a language barrier thing here - I assume people always speak English as their first language but it's possibly you're in Europe mainland or somewhere else?)

I am German (which explains a lot of other things) and I know that my English sucks, but I don't think that's an issue because other people understand me perfectly well.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I know some players appreciate the grind as game-play. Their logic being you shouldn't be able to get into an anaconda in 2 days.

Personally, I'd like to be able to reset my save regularly as i do in games like Skyrim or X-Rebirth. Granted those games are single player only but that is the kind of progression I'd like to see in ED. I'd like to try different role-plays out and reset as I go.

Now that I've finally made Elite and restored my Fed and Imp rank after a series of save resets, I doubt I'll ever reset a save again.

Well, yeah, see, this is what some of loudest complains come from and unfortunately this is something that won't change ever, because ED is clearly not designed to suit this particular niche.

There's certainly market for space ship building game, and I know several ones that are incoming in market and I hope people will find their fun there.

As Yoda said - or didn't - do or don't do, there's no try.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Commander David Braben said he is making game HE wants to play - I guess he likes to grind? [haha]

 

[Jex =TE=]

all of which is your interpretation (and much of which is kind of what i think of as well when it comes to an mmo) and also mirrors well with what David Braben said above.. so we agree then i think?

ED shares *some* characteristics of an mmo, and in a totally literal sense IS an mmo, but it is not an mmo in the sense of what most people expect an mmo to be. ED is not a typical mmo and arguably is not a GOOD mmo either (in my view its a cracking multiplayer space rpg however)

however regardless of what you think of games like Warthunder they ARE actively sold as mmos, therefore it would be insanity for FD not to drink from that cash stream as well dont you agree?

(top line of the warthunder blurb Join most realistic Combat MMO & fight with over 10 Million Players. )
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Warthunder an MMO huh? Maybe they cracked the game and now we can have 500 per side? I haven't palyed it in ages so maybe they have.

I guess MMO is now changing it's meaning then and we're going through the transition because WT is NOT and NEVER WILL BE an RPG with mass battles where you skill up your character and do quests and kill boses. That's what an MMO has been since MMO's appeared so I'm curious to think how some muppet at WT thinks his game fits that category or more importantly, why they feel the need to.

If MMO's now mean another thing, what do actual MMO's call themselves now? Is their a war going on between real MMO's and WT/ED/WoT? LOL

 

[jonluv]

I think the "Grind" in ED has been very beneficial to my general game play --- gone back to Witcher and Fable and now much more patient with the gameplay -- explore more -- think more and hopefully play better. Strangely though now find the Military Shooters very shallow games and get easily fed up with them

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Commander David Braben said he is making game HE wants to play - I guess he likes to grind? [haha]

Personally on the whole what some see as grind i see as the only possible way to make an (on the surface) plausible game.

that is not to say there are not some parts of the game which make zero sense to be and DO seem to be grind for the sake of grind....
(if i want iron or carbon, why do i have to land on a planets surface and find it, and it is impossible to buy them).

This has clearly been added for the sake of "its a game".... and whilst all games have this in them, i think FD could hide it a lot more by thinking more about what components or "ingredients" (shudder) are needed for their blue prints.

but in the grand scheme of things i think it is a minor complaint. but that is just imo, which is no more valid than anyone elses of course

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Warthunder an MMO huh? Maybe they cracked the game and now we can have 500 per side? I haven't palyed it in ages so maybe they have.

I guess MMO is now changing it's meaning then and we're going through the transition because WT is NOT and NEVER WILL BE an RPG with mass battles where you skill up your character and do quests and kill boses. That's what an MMO has been since MMO's appeared so I'm curious to think how some muppet at WT thinks his game fits that category or more importantly, why they feel the need to.

If MMO's now mean another thing, what do actual MMO's call themselves now? Is their a war going on between real MMO's and WT/ED/WoT? LOL

according to a dirty dictionary search i get this.

MMO
noun
noun: MMO; plural noun: MMOs

an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

sounds like the BGS in ED ticks that box....

 

[Jex =TE=]

I don't appreciate the grind as game play, I consider it to be the actual game. Apparently you consider sitting in your Anaconda and doing nothing to be the game, because doing something would be grinding.


I am German (which explains a lot of other things) and I know that my English sucks, but I don't think that's an issue because other people understand me perfectly well.

Well your English doesn't suck at all in fact I almost didn't notice it so it must be pretty good! Other people are not you and I though but it's good to know as I can avoid nuance where things can get lost in translation.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Jex, none of current crop of MMORPGs have more than 20 players in one location. It isn't WoW, those times are over. People are evenly spread over many games and measurement of 'number of players in one instance' really does not qualify game as MMO.

So what is MMO exactly? It is Massive Multiplayer Online. ED ticks all these three boxes.

And for bonus it is BGS, all dynamic, all player input encompassing system, which ties ED together and makes it most dynamic MMO besides EvE.

So ED is MMO. It is not MMORPG and it is certainly not your classic MMO game you have played over the years.

 

[Jex =TE=]

according to a dirty dictionary search i get this.

MMO
noun
noun: MMO; plural noun: MMOs

an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.

sounds like the BGS in ED ticks that box....

They mean simultaneously together. No MMO has ever marketed itself as "Play together in small numbers by affecting the server in large numbers"

The beauty of an MMO is that hundreds of people can get together - at least it used to be and when I think of an MMO I think WoW or Eve. If I paid for an MMO and got ED I'd be getting a refund. Nobody has bought ED thinking it was an MMO so I don't know why game devs think they need to market using that term (War Thunder, really?? LOL).

It doesn't help the game either. Saying WT an MMO is pointless though. Why would you want to make people think it's a fantasy RPG?

 

[Vasco Sapien]

First off i do love this game. I would love it more though, if everything wasn't a grind.

Getting Faction Rep = Grind
Getting to Elite = Grind
Finding Engineer Resources = Grind
Getting Good Stats on Modules = Grind
Power Play = Grind
Getting Synth Resources = Grind

Literally every activity in this game results in a massive time sink.

Now don't get me wrong, a game needs longevity and end game goals that take a while to accomplish, like i do believe that you should not be able to get to Elite and King in a month.

Other parts of the game however should not be a massive grind. Right now you can literally spend an entire day just looking for Iron. You shouldn't have to say to yourself, "hmm what should i do today, i think ill go get some iron but that's all i will be able to do in my few hours to play"

Right now i'm on hunt for Sulfur, been on this planet for several hours now and i've only found 4 spots that have materials 1 rock at a time.

Making everything a grind is not the answer to keeping people playing longer, good content, gameplay and community are what do this, not more grinding.

Now the first thing people are going to say is "You don't have to grind for anything if you don't want to" to me this is not a good answer, for some people having a Cutter or Experimenting with ship builds is what makes them happy and interested in the game. It should not take months and months of playing to accomplish some of these things.

In my experience games that do not have anything to offer are the ones that make everything a grind, ED is better than that, we don't need it to be a grind in order to stay interested.

Most video games have some element of grind in them. Im currently playing Cuphead for example and its not an easy game, every time i die i have to start again and the game is taking its time.

Its easy to argue that the game is to hard, The game is a grind, The game is repetitive.... but what else would you expect?

I honestly can't think of a single example of a game that is devoid of some level of grind in order to play it. A player works towards a goal by performing tasks.

I wonder if,.. what is considered gameplay to some is largely considered grind by other.. more impatient players.

--

The 2018 Patch cycle is readdressing core gameplay, So right now complaining about this is a Moot point.

Lets see how things evolve.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

They mean simultaneously together.

Sure, each ED system holds thousand of players at once. You can meet up to 32 players (sometimes even more) at one go, and fact systems are so huge it really does change little - besides connection issues which impact matchmaking.

So it is essentially playing together simultaneously. Not sure how to call it differently. It is all about how instances are created - hint: classic MMOs all create instances and segregate players even on same server, see SWTOR - and how they are managed trough matchmaking.

 

[Harry Hates Golf]

Sorry but games should always be fun, not tons of hard work resulting in a little fun. Its a game not a job.

Hey, jobs can be fun too.

I love my job. I can honestly say that. I love my job.

I can appreciate your frustration, though. I don't find the "grind" unenjoyable at all, but then again, that's me. Hopefully, it will eventually get better for you.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Jex, none of current crop of MMORPGs have more than 20 players in one location. It isn't WoW, those times are over. People are evenly spread over many games and measurement of 'number of players in one instance' really does not qualify game as MMO.

So what is MMO exactly? It is Massive Multiplayer Online. ED ticks all these three boxes.

And for bonus it is BGS, all dynamic, all player input encompassing system, which ties ED together and makes it most dynamic MMO besides EvE.

So ED is MMO. It is not MMORPG and it is certainly not your classic MMO game you have played over the years.

Hmmm Bless, Black desert, Archage would tend to disagree about the numbers but I'm not in the RPG crowd so i dunno.

What do you mean "all THREE boxes" LOL there's only one

Massive multiplayer online not..

Massive...check
muliplayer...check
online....check

multiplayer goes with online we're not talking a LAN here.

Massive doesn't mean the size of the player base. It means the amount of players that can be seen together afaik.

By your definition, every multiplayer game out there is an MMO then. They all have massive player bases in the millions. They are all multiplayer. They are all online.

So how do you define the old days MMO - are they now MMORPG's?