Big 3 must n be solo ships. These ships, like our actuals aicraft carriers must operate in fleet with lighter ships covering them.
My Conda has three Pacs as it’s main guns. Works pretty well against a variety of targets whether locked on or not.
That's not an edge-case definition, that's every day. You don't PvP, so how would you know?
It makes it very difficult to use non-hitscan gimbals, yes. Plenty of other weapons though.
IMO, TLB and chaff are soft counters, as gimbals can still be fired with no lock.
Dispersal is the hard counter as it forces gimbals to wobble even if no target is selected. Against dispersal weapons, gimbals aren't just crappy fixed weapons, they are flatly dead weight outside of point blank range.
Not really. It's situationally advantageous, as it is on all vessels, but good thruster control can allow one to keep up with almost anything, even with FA On.
Large to huge PA is a much smaller damage increase than many other large to huge weapons.
I occasionally put large weapons in my FDL's huge hardpoint to save mass and power (which saves more mass cause I can run a smaller PP), shaving 15-20 tons off the ship is often more advantageous than the extra damage.
Yes, I understand the trade off, but you’re talking about APAs. Those have another damage reduction all their own. My only point is that the pilot is forgoing a significant amount of damage in order to lay on the effect. It’s not a Large vs a Huge pa. It’s a huge PA vs an apa.
Maybe he's worried he'll miss and wants the the greater volume of fire?
Sure or he plain wants to spam the TLB effect as often as possible. Whatever the modivation, my point is it comes at a tradeoff.
its not THAT big of a problem for me, i can always just fire 2 imp hammers on cutter nose without having anything locked, and sometimes i hit huge fixed canon without lock aswell, but how it makes my 2 large gimbaled multicanons so much less effective and packhounds literally useless... uh... now this came to my mind, what happend to big ships shield strenght change, and their massive increase in armor 2 betas ago ?
Use fixed hitscan.
Full FAoff with a good roll on G5 DDs. Alternatively, fixed weapons. Makes it hard to hit smaller ships with it unless you have lasers but remember you have still more firepower and way more health.
If you get attacked by APAs with TLBs focus the one using it ... if you get hit by multiple ships then fire blind or just check where the reticle might be by quickly selecting your target before you shoot.
Big ships are mainly against big ships anyways and APA TLBs punish those who run full tracking and/or full sustained without any fixed weapon.
So wait a second. You're upset that there's a gun that counters a big ship? There's nothing wrong with target lock breakers on the plasma or advanced plasma.
Do you also have an issue with feedback rails? Cascade torpedoes? Those also counter certain things, most relevant to this conversation being big ships. Surely you wouldn't say nerf those too, right?
Each weapon effect has something it's useful against. Target lock breaker happens to punish large targets. And that's ok. It's similar to how emissive punishes shieldless silent running ships. Or how phasing punishes shield tanks with no armor under so they can go really fast. Etc etc.
Do you also have an issue with feedback rails? Cascade torpedoes? Those also counter certain things, most relevant to this conversation being big ships. Surely you wouldn't say nerf those too, right?
Each weapon effect has something it's useful against. Target lock breaker happens to punish large targets. And that's ok. It's similar to how emissive punishes shieldless silent running ships. Or how phasing punishes shield tanks with no armor under so they can go really fast. Etc etc.
Aren't the big three supposed to be good at combat or why are we even paying the premium for them?
Once you realize that the big three are big, slow, prone to be focused any time multiple hostiles are encountered, and that there are various effects and tactics used against the big three frequently enough that they cannot be ignored, then you can begin to manage PvP in one.
Having significant experience fighting in and against the smaller, more popular PvP ships is also critical for knowing what they are capable of, and thus understanding where the strengths and weaknesses of larger vessels lay in comparison.
You also have to realize, that piloting ability being similar, one of the big three is, at best, worth two FDLs or FASes in a fight. Given that they also cost ten times as much to replace, you have to be able to recognize when you are outmatched, and be willing to leave, assuming you don't want to face much more attrition than your foes. Larger engagements are also progressively more difficult for larger vessels to handle, even if they have allies. A well conceived and flow big three can last quite some time against focus fire from two or three hostile ships. However, once you reach a critical number of hostiles gunning just for you, you need to leave, because big ships cannot really evade or disengage in normal space, and your allies won't be able to pull off attackers that can.
As for the premium that's paid, I think it's worth it, as larger ships can do many things the smaller ones cannot. However, price/performance ratio in combat belongs to much smaller vessels.
Well said.
A big 3 ship mass locks everything other than another big ship meaning they can dictate whenever they want to leave via low waking, i.e. way more chance of surviving an encounter with anything other than a big ship, wings included. They can all launch SLFs. They have the best shields and the best hull on the same ship, whereas an FDL can only match them in shields but has a weak hull and a FAS can only match them in hull but has weak shields. The big 3 have considerable firepower.
Outside of combat you also have the biggest cargo space and in the case of the Anaconda the best explorer ship in the game.
There have to be some negatives to them otherwise they'd be OP. Their negatives include: sluggish manouverability, big targets, having to use at least some gimballed/turreted weapons in order to utilise their full firepower potential. And thus they are vulnerable to effects like TLB, and dispersal field. That's just the compromises you have to deal with. PvP is currently ruled by medium ships. Small and big ships are a niche choice in PvP that on occassion can pay off but it requires a specific set of circumstances.
The Cutter and Corvette are military ships, thus they should be expected to perform better than any other ship in the game in terms of combat, the other benefits such as cargo space come more as a side effect and in the case of the Anaconda it simply is a multipurpose ship. Now I do think there should be drawbacks on them when using them in PvP yet it seems they are a worse choice than an FDL in PvP in general which defeats their purpose.
That depends on whether the devs intended for credits to buy you power in this game. From what I can see the ships were designed and balanced in such a way as to be side-grades rather than a straight up check list of upgrades in every area.
The bigger the ship the less mobility you have but the tankier you are. In PvP combat mobility and speed are key more so than outright tankiness. The FDL is the apex king of PvP because it has both mobility, speed and the ability to be an uber shield tank. It's in the sweet spot and that's why it's the meta. Big ships and small ships can still do PvP but compared to the meta they are a niche choice. A Corvette or a Cutter can both be made into an uber shielded fortress that can serve perfectly well as a big heavy hitter for example but you can't expect to be able to just steam roll through a medium ship that's equipped to counter the potential use of gimbals and/or SCBs.
I thought it had been concluded by another thread that gimbals are on average, better than fixed weapons, mainly do to the shortage of chaff. I don't want the big 3 to be invincible but I want them to be what tIMO are supposed to be, the ultimate in combat capabilities, otherwise I may as well never buy one unless I'm interest in trading.
Also, what does "big heavy hitter" means?
Gimbals are better in 1v1s, much worse in wing fights.
Big ships aren't supposed to be the ultimate in combat capabilities, they're supposed to essentially fill the capital ship role. Slow moving, lots of defenses, lots of weapons. When they hit you, it hurts, but they should be slow enough that a smaller ship can out-maneuver it and have defenses against them. With TLB, you have an actual counter to the 402 gimbal big ship pilot, because you can take some of the weapons away from them and lessen their impact. If you want to avoid that, use fixed weapons.
It seems like you're getting upset because your big ship isn't this invincible god-ship and is actually in danger at times.
ryan_m's post covered the points better than I could. By "big heavy hitter" I mean the big ships can hurt you a lot if they hit you with all their guns. Kinda like a hammer fist with a long wind up hurts more than a single quick jab.