Okay we need to talk about how wanted levels are handed out.

[AndyJ]

There are just two rules
- you shoot something you don't know a status of = you get wanted
- anything starts shooting you (if you are clear), you can defend yourself even without scanning them

There's a flaw with that though.
OP obviously came across a group of villains who were then sizing him up to be the next victim, leader gets into a fight and a lackey got accidentally shot.
The issue isn't so much that the OP hadn't scanned that ship first - more that ... would the villain have had "report crimes" turned on or not?

If you want the bounty then you should have to scan the ship(s) but if they're blatantly bad-guys about to attack/rob you - it's self defense! And they're hardly likely to report and call the system police to come help/arrest them if you resist are they?!
IIRC you can get interdicted, told to hand over x amount of cargo and if instead you choose to fire on the ship without scanning first -you- are now the bad guy. Errr. nope.

Let's not keep defending a nonsensical mechanic and hope that FD improve upon its binary nature so that it makes a little more sense.

 

[Tiparium]

There's a flaw with that though.
OP obviously came across a group of villains who were then sizing him up to be the next victim, leader gets into a fight and a lackey got accidentally shot.
The issue isn't so much that the OP hadn't scanned that ship first - more that ... would the villain have had "report crimes" turned on or not?

If you want the bounty then you should have to scan the ship(s) but if they're blatantly bad-guys about to attack/rob you - it's self defense! And they're hardly likely to report and call the system police to come help/arrest them if you resist are they?!
IIRC you can get interdicted, told to hand over x amount of cargo and if instead you choose to fire on the ship without scanning first -you- are now the bad guy. Errr. nope.

Let's not keep defending a nonsensical mechanic and hope that FD improve upon its binary nature so that it makes a little more sense.

Finally, someone gets it.

 

[Chris Simon]

There's a flaw with that though.
OP obviously came across a group of villains who were then sizing him up to be the next victim, leader gets into a fight and a lackey got accidentally shot.
The issue isn't so much that the OP hadn't scanned that ship first - more that ... would the villain have had "report crimes" turned on or not?

If you want the bounty then you should have to scan the ship(s) but if they're blatantly bad-guys about to attack/rob you - it's self defense! And they're hardly likely to report and call the system police to come help/arrest them if you resist are they?!
IIRC you can get interdicted, told to hand over x amount of cargo and if instead you choose to fire on the ship without scanning first -you- are now the bad guy. Errr. nope.

Let's not keep defending a nonsensical mechanic and hope that FD improve upon its binary nature so that it makes a little more sense.

Okay first, it's only an evincible self-defense if they attack you first.
Second, okay so let's say it was me, who had gotten myself in the line of OP's fire. I would be really peevish about him shooting me just because I'm between him and his target and so should the police.

 

[Tiparium]

Okay first, it's only an evincible self-defense if they attack you first.
Second, okay so let's say it was me, who had gotten myself in the line of OP's fire. I would be really peevish about him shooting me just because I'm between him and his target and so should the police.

If you were in a pirate wing with the guy shooting me, I don't think you would have the right to be peevish about being shot. I didn't shoot first.

 

[d8veh]

Those git gud guys haven't a clue. They need to get off their high horses and get real. I'd like to see them miss this one:

[video=youtube;mRewG0WxaZU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRewG0WxaZU[/video]

 

[Faded Glory]

Finally, someone gets it.

It's game mechanic Tiparium. You and AndyJ are overthinking it.

It's designed by FD to make players think, just a teeny little bit before they let loose with their weapons. If you don't know the status of a ship and you assault it, you are the bad guy.

It's also, if you think about quite fair. After all, you wouldn't want someone shooting you and then not be able to fight back because they didn't become wanted. Would you?

 

[Tiparium]

Those git gud guys haven't a clue. They need to get off their high horses and get real. I'd like to see them miss this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRewG0WxaZU

Actually I think that would have been pretty easy to avoid compared to what I did. At least here you could see the guy coming in your view screen, not just as a dot on your radar. The cutter doesn't have nearly as good a field of view as the Ferdie.

 

[Tiparium]

It's game mechanic Tiparium. You and AndyJ are overthinking it.

It's designed by FD to make players think, just a teeny little bit before they let loose with their weapons. If you don't know the status of a ship and you assault it, you are the bad guy.

It's also, if you think about quite fair. After all, you wouldn't want someone shooting you and then not be able to fight back because they didn't become wanted. Would you?

Yes but as we have established, I wasn't trying to assault that ship. I was trying to defend myself from another ship in his wing, that had already opened fire on me. This is beyond the fact that the guy I did accidentally hit was blatantly wanted, I just hadn't had time to scan him yet.

 

[AndyJ]

If someone shoots at you -maybe misses- but didn't hit or you didn't report then they're not necessarily a criminal. Maybe they weren't actually aiming at you...
But FD does know if an NPC is a bad guy or not, so there could be a little common-sense when it comes to the player reacting to their threat.

Yeah it might be a game mechanic, but it's daft. We know they're going to look at stuff next year so why not call out little areas that can be improved. And this really wouldn't be hard to improve.

 

[Faded Glory]

Yes but as we have established, I wasn't trying to assault that ship. I was trying to defend myself from another ship in his wing, that had already opened fire on me. This is beyond the fact that the guy I did accidentally hit was blatantly wanted, I just hadn't had time to scan him yet.

Yes I know... What happened to you is actually called friendly fire, (the whole not shooting until you've established status is incidental to your situation), accidentally hitting a ship that you don't know the status of and do not have targeted. And just so you know, there is an allowance for that. It's not a whole lot, and with big ships and big guns, it's quite easy to exceed the allowance.

What happened to you was an accident on your part, and you got a 400 credit bounty with a timer of 8 minutes. It's annoying, but it's a very small deal. Jump out of system, refuel and rearm and by the time you get back you are clean as a newborn.

Still, the point stands, suppose another ship chooses to shoot at you without targeting you. Are you really OK that they can do damage to you, and you cannot defend yourself, because they didn't become wanted? And what if it's a wing of four, all pecking away at you, but never becoming wanted?

 

[AndyJ]

Actually the point still stands - if it was a pirate that flew across the fire and got hit - why do they have 'report crimes' turned on to generate that bounty and attract the local fuzz?

 

[Tiparium]

Yes I know... What happened to you is actually called friendly fire, (the whole not shooting until you've established status is incidental to your situation), accidentally hitting a ship that you don't know the status of and do not have targeted. And just so you know, there is an allowance for that. It's not a whole lot, and with big ships and big guns, it's quite easy to exceed the allowance.

What happened to you was an accident on your part, and you got a 400 credit bounty with a timer of 8 minutes. It's annoying, but it's a very small deal. Jump out of system, refuel and rearm and by the time you get back you are clean as a newborn.

Still, the point stands, suppose another ship chooses to shoot at you without targeting you. Are you really OK that they can do damage to you, and you cannot defend yourself, because they didn't become wanted? And what if it's a wing of four, all pecking away at you, but never becoming wanted?

If you're already wanted, I don't think it should matter. I knew the guy I was shooting was wanted, and I knew the guy I accidentally shot was wanted because of the scenario. What you're describing seems to imply that the person being targeted isn't wanted. but the victim of griefing.

 

[Faded Glory]

Actually the point still stands - if it was a pirate that flew across the fire and got hit - why do they have 'report crimes' turned on to generate that bounty and attract the local fuzz?

NPCs aren't really known for their deductive skills...

Seriously though, try as you will to ground this in some form of reason or reality, you'll likely be disappointed. FD want players to know the status of the ship they attack, and if they don't, or if the ship is clean, then the player is at fault.

Reality goes two ways too... How many wanted NPCs would really turn up at a nav beacon or RES just so they can be shot at?

 

[Arry]

If you're already wanted, I don't think it should matter. I knew the guy I was shooting was wanted, and I knew the guy I accidentally shot was wanted because of the scenario. What you're describing seems to imply that the person being targeted isn't wanted. but the victim of griefing.

You keep saying 'I knew', but in fact, you assumed. A completed scan, becomes a fact. Them hitting you, becomes a fact. Hit the hostile button and the facts are there; instantly. Then no scan required.

 

[Faded Glory]

I knew the guy I was shooting was wanted, and I knew the guy I accidentally shot was wanted because of the scenario. What you're describing seems to imply that the person being targeted isn't wanted. but the victim of griefing.

No, you didn't know the ship you accidentally hit was wanted, you assumed it was. Highly likely correctly. But not knowing, by not targeting, can't be used as an excuse for shooting first and asking questions later, and the scenario I painted was one that FD took under consideration a long time ago when deciding that shooting a ship your ship's computer had not determined as being wanted would count as an assault and get you wanted status.

But that's really not the issue. See my post above, and either fight it, or learn and adapt. It's really not difficult to avoid becoming wanted accidentally, and if it does happen, the penalty is trivial.

 

[AndyJ]

Seriously though, try as you will to ground this in some form of reason or reality, you'll likely be disappointed.

Been here since the Kickstarter, I have a long list of disappointments by now.
But things have room for improvement next year, so let's ask for those that are sensible and not just keep accepting this is the best that they can do when it obviously makes little sense...

(I'm only "arguing" because I'm sat outside a station wake-scanning for G5 FSD engineering data and this is a whole lot less boring! Ah. Just realised I'm meant to be in SC not local space - no wonder not getting results - grrrr!)

 

[Arry]

Been here since the Kickstarter, I have a long list of disappointments by now.
But things have room for improvement next year, so let's ask for those that are sensible and not just keep accepting this is the best that they can do when it obviously makes little sense...

(I'm only "arguing" because I'm sat outside a station wake-scanning for G5 FSD engineering data and this is a whole lot less boring!)

They have made improvements. It used to be, one shot was enough. We do get the 'watch your fire' message now and if you're allied, you get even more leeway.

At the same time: There is always room for improvement.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

You're only wanted for 8 minutes, the fine is only 400 credits. So what's the problem?

 

[Faded Glory]

Been here since the Kickstarter, I have a long list of disappointments by now.
But things have room for improvement next year, so let's ask for those that are sensible and not just keep accepting this is the best that they can do when it obviously makes little sense...

(I'm only "arguing" because I'm sat outside a station wake-scanning for G5 FSD engineering data and this is a whole lot less boring! Ah. Just realised I'm meant to be in SC not local space - no wonder not getting results - grrrr!)

As Arry says, and you must know, FD have introduced leeway for friendly fire. Will they perhaps make changes that when you are fighting a wing, scanning one wing member will automatically give you the status of the rest of the wing? Maybe, but to me that would just be dumbing things down a bit. As I said before, it's not difficult to get the ship's scan done before opening fire...

You have my utmost sympathy regarding the wake scanning. Now that (and how we get all engineering materials and data) could definitely be improved! Try a system in boom if you're not already, they seem to drop more often.

 

[Tiparium]

You keep saying 'I knew', but in fact, you assumed. A completed scan, becomes a fact. Them hitting you, becomes a fact. Hit the hostile button and the facts are there; instantly. Then no scan required.

It wasn't an assumption. Different encounters are different premade events that are just placed around in unknown signal sources. Unless you want to tell me that me finding three wanted anacondas grouped around a little pile of floating loot multiple times in the same hour is a complete coincidence. Sure I didn't see the words WANTED on the ship, but I think it's reasonable to infer what a situation holds based on encountering the exact same situation several times back to back.