Do we want fluff or content?

I want missions that pay me for the time I put in them.
Spending 40 minutes ferrying some "adventurer" around to 5 different systems 400LY away for 4 million credits is insulting.
Carrying 20 economy passengers to a drop off point 10,000 LS away for 40,000 credits is equally insulting.

I want to land on a moon and not see the same random pattern of rocks, boulders, and pebbles that I see on every single moon.

I want to land on our Moon.

I want engineering without RNG, or having to build up favor after every single "special" modification I make. Favor is favor....stop treating it like a currency.

I want a better wanted system that doesn't punish me for returning fire on some NPC that interdicts me in a system where I'm not even wanted....which of course makes me wanted once I shoot him for defending myself.

I want a better HUD coloring system that doesn't force me to choose between having a psychedelic portrait or being able to tell friend from foe on the radar.

I want better CGs that don't suck the fun out of monotonous, endless, repetitive actions.

I want a BGS where FDev doesn't artificially move the boundaries to cater to their own CG needs whenever it suits them.

I want a more robust and fully fleshed out smuggling system.

I want to be rewarded for attacking a moon base that's heavily defended and stealing all their data from the core computer. Risk vs reward is awful.

I want scavenging to actually be profitable. Being forced to load only 2 items into my SCV cargo at a time is ridiculous. Selling occupied capsules for about 20k a pop is also ridiculous. Why even bother?


.....could care less about atmospheric planets.
Yep

I want to get up to speed faster in supercruise instead of that long boring countdown/count up. When I engage and that blue tunnel appears along with that barrier breaking sound, I want to be moving along, not sitting there watching a meter increase slowly. We aren't blasting off in 1969.

I want orbital cruise to be faster than glide, instead of crawling to a stop before entering glide at which point the distance countdown resumes.

I want thrusters in zero air resistance environments and ultra low gravity to create about 3x the speed they create now, maybe even 5x. I'm ok with thruster governors controlled by stations out to a certain distance, otherwise we need to be moving. The concept of flying a spaceship, to me, means moving along.

I want to be required to thread some needles getting into certain areas on planets, not just flat terrain with craters. I'd like to have some large mountainous terrain with overhangs that we could fly through to get to otherwise unreachable areas.

I want to sometimes go splat against something in supercruise, because we collided, without dropping out of SC first.

I'd like to be able turn down cargo offerings for mission completion.

I want an investment system so that, if your money is tied up in modules and ships, you aren't earning anything from it, however if you have invested it into an ongoing project, you have a chance of getting a return on it.

I want a space casino to blow some Cr and maybe make some.
 
I think that Elite Dangerous : Space Legs should be a separate title FPS, but it needs to be compatible with Planet Coaster... just say'n.

Nah! It should be compatible with JW then at least we could shoot dinosaurs 😊
I'm happy flying spaceships though.
 
Don't forget, the time of a graphic artist can't be spent on development and bugfixing, and vice-versa. These two options:



... are comparing apples and oranges... the two skillsets to address the two problem sets are (mostly) wildly different.

If the art team are "Done" before the dev team on a new piece of content, you can't just, say, sack the art team and hire more devs, because then you're stuffed for artists down the track. You also don't want them idling, so you give them tasks like the "fluff" you mention.

Personally, while I've verbalised plenty of times what I want from core gameplay enhancements, I also want my Thargoid Sensor bobblehead :D

I remember somebody complaining on the Elder Scrolls Online forums about why the devs were fixing a sound bug while there's some other bug around for ages, and the community manager answered with a picture of a guy with a guitar sitting in front of lots of sound-tech, and asked the question: "Would you really want our sound designer to play with the code?". Silence. It was awesome.

I'm pretty sure Fdev are a good team doing stuff as good and fast as possible. Creating games is just not a piece of cake, and things that seem to be easy to make/fix are most of the times way harder than people tend to believe.
That said: I want fluff and exactly the stuff they announced for 2018. Space legs are totally one of the last things on my list, though I'd take atmospheric landings anytime. But as somebody in the thread already said: step by step. I'm patient .
 
The problem is with the question here. I have no idea where you're drawing your line. To me, there's only one direction: forward. Fixing HUD customization, for instance, would be addressing a long-standing known problem with the game.
 
  • Like (+1)
Reactions: NW3
If the art team are "Done" before the dev team on a new piece of content, you can't just, say, sack the art team and hire more devs, because then you're stuffed for artists down the track. You also don't want them idling, so you give them tasks like the "fluff" you mention.
Clearly in this case Frontier should recode the Cobra engine in Piet so that the art team can do the development. [yesnod]
 
I'm interested in anything that makes the experience more believable. I don't care much about gameplay, as long as what they add helps the feeling of immersion and the internal consistency of the game's world.

For that I'm interested in space legs, atmo planets and fixing various aspects of the game which don't make much sense. Instant repairs, rearm and cargo transfers need to go for example. So does instantly respawning. The whole USS mechanic needs to be rethought or hidden behind some mechanics making the supercruise/normal space separation less jarring and obvious.
The BGS needs to be more reactive for the odd gold rushes to dry up quicker, and missions payouts need to be brought back in line to explain why the rest of the world economy does not revolve exclusively around them.
 
Last edited:
Hold on...isn't Beyond all about exactly that...fixing the current game mechanics?

That is scheduled to take a year...after that they will work on the other areas of expansion, space legs or atmos planets or both.

I think we are all hoping that when they do start on those big projects they will be building on solid foundations that Beyond will hopefully provide.

My feeling is that the new expansions like space legs and atmos planets will be introduced with baby steps at first.

A concern of mine about space legs is what content they introduce with it, if it just becomes a means of getting missions or handing in bounties (meeting your contacts), and walking around your ship with little interaction then it will be utterly tedious and almost immediately redundant, I'd rather they didn't bother. Space legs needs to introduce stuff that we can't do now, space walk to fix your ship, board another ship, meaningful interactions with NPC, the whole black market meta should be taken out of the ship UI and become a space legs feature, you go to find your black market contact in a darkened corner of a seedy bar...that makes sense but space legs needs to add a whole new level of gameplay, not just replace existing UI mechanics with walking somewhere.
 
Last edited:
  • Like (+1)
Reactions: NW3
Elite has an abundance of content (a whole 1:1 scale procedurally generated galaxy).
I would like to see improvements to how players interact with the content, better immersion, more consistency with existing lore, less ridiculous concepts like telepresence.

So basically making players access to existing content less fluffy.
 
Frontier always say they want to take their time and make sure everything is done right whenever they're asked about future updates, but everything they've released so far hasn't been done right, it just seems like an excuse to put off the more difficult and expensive tasks.

Ha, an excuse? You do understand you are not their mom, right?
 
The thing is that sentence can be said today, tomorrow, 10 years from now or 5 years ago. You can still say in 2025 "you want it done now or want it done right" and it will still mean exactly the same as today: nothing, because nobody knows when is the "done right" time.

That's because time isn't the main factor of whether it's done "right."
 
(1) More ascetically pleasing things like ship paint jobs, ability to change your hud and weapon colours, space legs and atmospheric landings (more on those two in a sec), more ships, new outfits and accessories for holo-me

I think that customization is the spice of life. Wherever a game allows players to be unique in how they look and what they project, players WILL dive straight into that. A game that does not allow advanced, what I call Ego Enhancement Attribution (EEA) and that, as such, being part of a larger immersion scheme is not of this time. Incorporating such mechanism should be considered core game mechanical and regarded, for what it costs to implement, as a type of overhead - unavoidable costs that arise out of creating a marketable product.

For the same reason I deem it necessary to be able to walk around your boat and interact with it. This is no longer a matter of computing power. Or limitations of a GPU. I have felt 'being the boat' from the beginning of the game. And unless you define the keys in the ever-loathsome options menu to switch to eternal camera's and gawk at your Holo-Me created avatar, usually representing your self-image or the girl you want to marry (if she only existed and loved gamers (which is probably a myth - and even if she did, how likely would she create YOU in her Hole-Me)) you will not often look at yourself as you play.

I remember my fascination with myself playing one of the Duke Nuke'Em games where you could see yourself in a mirror. Unreal had this as well, or maybe the first UT. I forgot. Anyway, the time of 'being the boat' should surely be abolished in this day and age. 20 years it wasn't that important, you see. Because you would play a game whereas with today's' technologies combined with ICT you are part of the game and its extended community. We no longer play games, we are the game. We see how when ED was under development some people climbed aboard with such vigor and enthusiasm that they became entwined with FD. People such as Kerrash and Psykokow who created all sort of fan-based follies :) Bless them for it too!

So to me, if you create a game with the notion in mind to ever expand it where community building is part of the whole extended game structure - that is what ICT does, create communities - you cannot really do without advanced avatar creation and editing as part of EEA, being a three dimensional character in a game world and being able to walk around any assets you collect. I believe in the future it will be increasingly normal to walk around and inside your ship, interact with it, I suppose, as you would already do in Star Citizen, simply because developers will recognize the need for the go to interface with their preferred escapism.

It will not be considered a 'game' if the experience of being there is not satisfied.

In that sense, what you write about atmospheric landings looking more real is an immersion argument. And immersion of our ego in a game world is a function of duality: if you see clouds whiz about you and parts of your boat glowing from entry, it is this eternal environment that outlines the ego. That is to say, you feel that you are there to contrast the perception of the game world. You, as a player can only be immersed if there is a background against to which you exist. I doubt most developers truly understand this, after all, psychology is not usually their forte.

So your question about 'how often' one would walk around the ship is not really a question if developers make the experience interactive. That is to say, you click on a button on the hull, out comes a keypad on which you enter your pin code so the door opens. In the cargo bay you point at some chain, use the mousewheel to 'scroll' a hook down to a cargo canister, scroll up to lift it and then by some game interface mechanic move it around to a spot where you drop the canister. The only issue here is, too much realism kills the game. because people game to have an easy life in contrast to their normal real life employment and the drag that that can be. This is where Star Citizen gets it wrong, by showing you how your avatar can pick up a box. How amazing. That is not gaming, that is chores.

If walking around the boat is just to feel proud of your new toy you just bought, then it is an expensive gimmick to implement. If it is part of the game experience, it is worth it. Is FD not promising to make mining more a proper engagement? It should be more than lasering an asteroid, they say. I have talked about this on here years ago. It never seemed to be complex to me, to allow a game mechanic to have you scan an object, depending on the scanner module and its abilities, to detect its content, then to have to move your ship to target the deposits just right to get maximum yield. I would allow a player to make it a mini-game: the better you position the laser, the higher the yield. Others less so inclined will still get good results on some deposit without playing the percentages, but the yield will be less, yet still worthwhile. That would probable me. It is then that the game allows for precision but concedes extensive demands on the player, see?

The same applies to your remarks on atmospheric landings. It is not just eye candy, it is about immersion. But secondly on worlds with these circumstances landing should be gameplay, that is, your success at landing depends on some flight skill to reach the surface.

I would like detailed plants. Procedural programming allows for diverse environments. You can check Infinity: The Quest for Earth to see a method of implementation. I haven't looked at it for a while, but I have been involved with it for three seconds when they were looking for mission material, before they decided to put the game on the backburner and release some sort of combat demo first. And that brings me to your points about missions.

I wrote missions that are modular, in that parts can be exchanged between missions. The goal here was to avoid repetition and within a type of mission, sameness. Say you have an escort mission, to escort another boat to some destination. I imagined a group of clowns on a theater tour. Yes, that is right, a merry band of clowns, who, and this is where you could modulate the mission, stole a bottle of rare whiskey from their last employer, who wants it back and sends people after this group, or, wants his daughter back that fell in love with one of the clowns.

You can combine all sort of modular sub-targets or goals into chained missions and give the player choices as to whether or not help the father, steal the whiskey for yourself or go off with the girl...and depending on whatever you choose, you will be rewarded as you sell the whiskey, sell the girl to a slaver or massacre the clowns (my favorite).

So thinking about underlying mission structures is about non-linearity. Unfortunately, developers fail at thinking about what a 'mission;' is within the broader game world context. That is why we see linear missions with only a few possible outcomes. I don't think in terms of 'missions', mission to me are stories. The stories can be fun - who doesn't wanna massacre a ship full of clowns - but always variable and as long as you remain within the believably, you should be okay.

In principle missions are in future games hopefully, part of Your Story. In that there is no 'mission board' apart from them being simply stations or opportunity altering offers that a trader or Wandering Mage might find in their respective game worlds. Your gaming IS a long chained mission where because of the modular approach, you can, like in many games, pause to pursue, skip, abandon or decline any sub-part of it. In any more or less defined mission phase there will be entry points where the game will offer random logical deviations, such as the mechanic of selling the rare whiskey, drinking it, selling it etc. So chains may be completed insofar as the whiskey is concerned, but it will trigger a logical response from the owner. A chain is then never truly closed. It just means a contract might be put on you.

A game will forever be interesting because of its randomness and ability to surprise. As long as good imaginative writers provide fun and interesting stories, that can be cut into logical modules and be interchangeable without becoming unbelievable.
 
Frontier always say they want to take their time and make sure everything is done right whenever they're asked about future updates, but everything they've released so far hasn't been done right, it just seems like an excuse to put off the more difficult and expensive tasks.

First of all, this is just nonsense.

There's criticism and there's 'nothing they have done is right', which is complete bullocks. It is just easy ticket out of explaining your criticism and I will say I have started to ignore such posts.

FD have done huge deal right. They certainly nailed lot of base mechanics right for lot of activities in the game. Even CQC is considered a success mechanics wise - there's other things lacking that makes it unpopular - but I am frankly thinking it is just not game Elite players want to leave main game for - but overall they know stuff very, very well.

If you have zero understanding how actually difficult or complex is to make such game, please don't comment. Being edgy on Internet without any clout looks very cheap.
 
The OP is filled with fallacies. The tl;dr is basically:

"Imagine if space legs and atmospheric planets are done in a way that does not offer fun gameplay. Would you rather have that or fun gameplay?"

Most people would argue that we want atmospheric planets (and/or space legs) with fun gameplay. The rest also makes no sense. Ship artists dont code atmo flight models. Mission designers dont create accessories for holo-me. All these people are already hired by FD, I suggest we just let them do their job. :)

That is the problem. All these departments do their own thing. But why should not a a ship artist be involved with the flight model? If you want good missions, accessories should be part of it. After all, why would not a mission start when someone slips a memory device in your pocket as you walk around your ship? And why should a mission mechanic not alert you while in deep space that a 'foreign object' is in your pocket? And why would you not be able to 'use' it with a console and read the mission context?

To be able to do all that, your Hole-Mme must show pockets on your attire. people rave about games like Skyrim: if you see it, you can go there! Well, this applies to all game visuals. If there is a pocket, it should be allowed to be a holding space. In the same way I expect as a miner to be able to enter my cargo hold and look inside a canister and see raw ore.

A mission writer must go to a gfx artist and demand a pocket that can be unzipped as to hold something. this will enhance the range of mission starting points.

A flight model is linked to the graphical presentation of transpiration on your avatar's face when you attempt to land on a turbulent atmospheric planet. And the amount of changes on the face is relative to the difficulty preset of the particular planet.

if these departments do not share an over-arching goal then sub-parts of the game structure and mechanics will never fully integrate. Hence, ED. A collection of bare-bone roles linked to a fairly limited game mechanic in terms of missions and flight mechanics, all in an abstract and rather dead game world. Yes, you see yellow cars drive in precisely timed linear fashion around in some station. But as you land there is no one in the building beyond the pad waving at you, or when you do a messy landing, panic and run away from the window.

This is what you get when a gfx artist is not connected to the mission department. Braben talks at length and did so from the start, about creating this immersive universe but doesn't realize that from a commercial perspective, a game's success is a function of its ability to immerse players rather than see it as a commercial no-go area out of time and financial restraints as investors get anxious. ED is not immersive. Surely not as much as it could be. More people would play it if players had pockets where some NPC could slip in something. Linearity is the unavoidable parental cause of death of any game because boredom is its child.
 
I want missions that pay me for the time I put in them.
Spending 40 minutes ferrying some "adventurer" around to 5 different systems 400LY away for 4 million credits is insulting.
Carrying 20 economy passengers to a drop off point 10,000 LS away for 40,000 credits is equally insulting.

I want to land on a moon and not see the same random pattern of rocks, boulders, and pebbles that I see on every single moon.

I want to land on our Moon.

I want engineering without RNG, or having to build up favor after every single "special" modification I make. Favor is favor....stop treating it like a currency.

I want a better wanted system that doesn't punish me for returning fire on some NPC that interdicts me in a system where I'm not even wanted....which of course makes me wanted once I shoot him for defending myself.

I want a better HUD coloring system that doesn't force me to choose between having a psychedelic portrait or being able to tell friend from foe on the radar.

I want better CGs that don't suck the fun out of monotonous, endless, repetitive actions.

I want a BGS where FDev doesn't artificially move the boundaries to cater to their own CG needs whenever it suits them.

I want a more robust and fully fleshed out smuggling system.

I want to be rewarded for attacking a moon base that's heavily defended and stealing all their data from the core computer. Risk vs reward is awful.

I want scavenging to actually be profitable. Being forced to load only 2 items into my SCV cargo at a time is ridiculous. Selling occupied capsules for about 20k a pop is also ridiculous. Why even bother?


.....could care less about atmospheric planets.

I understand what you're trying to say but in several cases you haven't said what you mean.
 
I'll take whichever gives this huge ocean some real depth, and right now for me personally, that's more interaction with NPC, un-gluing my commanders butt from the seats of the ship/srv to go exploring, whether it be planets or space stations.

But those are my preferences, I want more paths.
 
Only done right. SC and NMS are evidence space legs because of space legs will be tedious.

I believe FD can do it. I am in no rush.

To be honest, Star Citizen is actually doing pretty good now. While still alpha, 3.0 looks impressive and what they've managed to achieve thus far is pretty dam amazing.

No Mans Sky on the other hand....nah don't even put that game next to Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen haha
 
Back
Top Bottom