[Obsidian Ant] Elite Dangerous - The Credits Problem: A Case of Feeling Unrewarded?
- Thread starter SaliVader
- Start date
As usual, OA does so many words without really saying anything new. Yes, we want to enjoy the game first of all, yes we want earning money not be like RL job, its a game. No, he does not know how to solve it (figures).
Also, what's "taboo" about this? All of this was beaten to death on these forum gazillion of times and still is.
Also, what's "taboo" about this? All of this was beaten to death on these forum gazillion of times and still is.
Its taboo man, like open vs solo, pvp vs pve and the Grind.
Anyway, I dont think OA intends to say new things, its more of a summary for those who dont follow the forums/social media. And he does a great job.
What he says is true.
In order to solve basically all but the "I must earn 1bn credits a second, because reasons" complaints, FD need to balance all activities in the game, to earn roughly the same.
Piracy and mining pay a pitiful amount, and are basically not worth the effort.
Which is a shame if that's your chosen career.
Some people still think credits are a status symbol, and will flock to the Quince of the times.
But I think most people would be happy, if they could earn roughly the same no matter what profession they choose.
And I also mean PvP activities being a valid career.
Although, I have no idea where to start to fix this. Lol
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
In order to solve basically all but the "I must earn 1bn credits a second, because reasons" complaints, FD need to balance all activities in the game, to earn roughly the same.
Piracy and mining pay a pitiful amount, and are basically not worth the effort.
Which is a shame if that's your chosen career.
Some people still think credits are a status symbol, and will flock to the Quince of the times.
But I think most people would be happy, if they could earn roughly the same no matter what profession they choose.
And I also mean PvP activities being a valid career.
Although, I have no idea where to start to fix this. Lol
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
There is no taboo. But the broken balance in game annoys me since the game launched and i am baffled that it still persists. Ok, meanwhile there are ways i can make enough money to but the ships i like, but even after 300+ hours with my new Cmdr i have somewhere around 550 million Cr. That's ok for me because i gave up on the big three and rather work on my fleet of task dedicated small/medium ships.
But yeah, each time is see one of these threads about the 'exploit/cheese of the week: make 100mil/h!' i get a bit frustrated because the time i invest feels a bit wasted - it's not always fun make money the legit way.
And he is definitively correct that some activities (like mining or trading without external tools) are just not viable when you want to earn some credits. (some player will disagree, but this is my option and before you start telling me, no i am not playing the game wrong)
But yeah, each time is see one of these threads about the 'exploit/cheese of the week: make 100mil/h!' i get a bit frustrated because the time i invest feels a bit wasted - it's not always fun make money the legit way.
And he is definitively correct that some activities (like mining or trading without external tools) are just not viable when you want to earn some credits. (some player will disagree, but this is my option and before you start telling me, no i am not playing the game wrong)
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I was referring to the suggestion of cosmetic rewards he makes at the end of the video. From experience, unlockable cosmetics are not very popular in these forums.
Maybe. Its just for me it feels like more "summary for cognitively challenged", and every time I try to watch his videos I soon get this itching urge to scream "get to the bloody point already!!!"
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Maybe. Its just for me it feels like more "summary for cognitively challenged", and every time I try to watch his videos I soon get this itching urge to scream "get to the bloody point already!!!"
He has 100k subscribers, the vast majority of those are probably active ED players. If he discusses some topic FD does take notice, and he is able to articulate his criticism in a polite non-offensive manner, so my hope is that his message actually reaches the devs. Sure, a rant would be easier. For that, go and watch Yamiks.
In this particular case, devs know all of that (since game launch). Unfortunately he didn't offer any workable solution.
Allot of stuff feels indeed unrewarding.
for instance who still does PP grind to rank 5, for the PP reward.
they nerfed ALD and Hudsons bonuses a while back.. and doing so ending the struggle between them.
Every combateer with a bit of bias was pledged.. fun times and i mis them.
combat doesnt scale at all with ships. I can make the same amount of credits with a vulture as i do with my corvette in a hazres.
and most of the time its waiting for ships..
for instance who still does PP grind to rank 5, for the PP reward.
they nerfed ALD and Hudsons bonuses a while back.. and doing so ending the struggle between them.
Every combateer with a bit of bias was pledged.. fun times and i mis them.
combat doesnt scale at all with ships. I can make the same amount of credits with a vulture as i do with my corvette in a hazres.
and most of the time its waiting for ships..
First, this is not really his job. Second, the solution is to sit down and design a goal: How much Cr/h should a Cmdr be able to make on average depending on his total assets and ranks? Then balance the game around this goal. Yes, there should be "special opportunities" but it shouldn't be a difference of two or even three orders of magnitude (factor 100-1000!) when you compare the best and works money makers. This is the case now.
And btw, this has major downstream effect, in particular on the PvP balance in Open.
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You really don't realise that they (design team) have such a goal (again, since game almost started development)? Why do you think they keep trying to get rid of ways to earn money they think is "above" this goal?
Unless I misunderstand who do you think should "design" it - do you think they should open a forum vote on it or something? This will create nothing but bickering, also that's not a game designed by forum voting (not that majority of people realise what numbers have good effect on overall picture anyway).
For same reason disclosing actual number they have in mind will serve nothing - third a people will be ranting at devs its too much, third its too little and third that whole "max permissible income" idea is not what they like.
This is such a difficult thing to balance both between professions and between play styles.
As OA highlights are you happy to accumulate credits as a side effect of play and not be too fussed about the consequence or do you see the credits as an impediment to playing the game the way you want.
How do credits sensibly fit in to the lore? If even the simplest of missions is paying you enough to buy and equip a sidewinder or a bigger ship does that make sense? Does making sense matter?
How do careers even work, you can notionally maximize mining profit by only mining the most expensive ore and waiting for the best paying mission rewards - is this 'how you should do it', or should that be considered a bit excessive? If not doing it that way pays much much less then should that just be considered a choice you make or is that a design problem? Could that be resolved by requiring more expensive kit for more expensive ores so providing some sort of logic to mine lesser ores and some sort of career progression, maybe even lock that kit behind some sort of career ranking??
Tricky..
As OA highlights are you happy to accumulate credits as a side effect of play and not be too fussed about the consequence or do you see the credits as an impediment to playing the game the way you want.
How do credits sensibly fit in to the lore? If even the simplest of missions is paying you enough to buy and equip a sidewinder or a bigger ship does that make sense? Does making sense matter?
How do careers even work, you can notionally maximize mining profit by only mining the most expensive ore and waiting for the best paying mission rewards - is this 'how you should do it', or should that be considered a bit excessive? If not doing it that way pays much much less then should that just be considered a choice you make or is that a design problem? Could that be resolved by requiring more expensive kit for more expensive ores so providing some sort of logic to mine lesser ores and some sort of career progression, maybe even lock that kit behind some sort of career ranking??
Tricky..
You mean like remove CR reward from all activities and add a passive x% of ship flown's value per minute flown, then everyone earns the same amount relative to the value of their ship, and have BH and Missions and Exploration for BGS effects only?
Given the massive imbalance of credit payoff by different activities i don't think they have this goal or find it very important. I also don't see how they stop the exploits. As long as there is board-hopping every mission based activity will be broken. I don't want to do board hopping, so i have to accept my low income. Many others make billions that way. This has been an issue for a very, very long time. Another thing is exploration data, i.e. road to riches. Payoff should depend on distance to the bubble. It is ridiculous that i can just scan bubble systems for one hour and sell the data for 40 million Cr.
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I can get behind the unrewarding bit, but it has nothing to do with credits, nothing at all.
It's the playing experience itself that does it, no matter how many credits the game wants to throw at me for whatever i do.
Most of the time, it simply feels unrewarding on the emotional and entertainment level to me.
It's the playing experience itself that does it, no matter how many credits the game wants to throw at me for whatever i do.
Most of the time, it simply feels unrewarding on the emotional and entertainment level to me.
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I think it is the opposite: unlockable cosmetics are very popular around here. The idea that a cosmetic shop exists is generally accepted (and was voted for pre-release), but it was never really popular that pretty much ALL cosmetics are in the store. What is somewhat of a taboo (or IMHO just a dumb idea) is adding non-cosmetic things to the store, such as ships, pre-engineered modules, credits etc. Some do ask for it, but it tends to get steamrolled by frowny faces.
For me the whole thing boils down to this.
When I'm playing I either choose to have fun (e.g. exploring, PvP, mining, whatever) but that earns me little money, or I choose to make money (hauling for CG, passenger missions etc) but that isn't much fun.
One big problem is that the design team very clearly doesn't have a goal how much money we should earn that is balanced between different professions, so mining, exploration, combat, trading and passenger missions earn you very different amounts of cr/h.
When I'm playing I either choose to have fun (e.g. exploring, PvP, mining, whatever) but that earns me little money, or I choose to make money (hauling for CG, passenger missions etc) but that isn't much fun.
One big problem is that the design team very clearly doesn't have a goal how much money we should earn that is balanced between different professions, so mining, exploration, combat, trading and passenger missions earn you very different amounts of cr/h.
No. Not communism.
Lol
Just that if you're capable of earning 5,000,000CR an hour trading, then you should be able to earn roughly 5,000,000cr an hour bounty hunting, running missions, mining, pirating, etc. Skill, ship and equipment, dependant of course.
I suck at trading, and have no dedicated trader, so I wouldn't expect to earn as much as I do bounty hunting.
Currently, that's mostly possible, but mining and piracy are sorely lagging behind in terms of pay. And some missions are way ahead.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Board-hopping just gives you 3x more mission top. I hope you realise that unlimited board reset is fixed already.
Also you don't seem to fully understand difficulty of balancing that "payoff of different activities". Simply because some people are more clever about them and will always earn quite more.
E.g. yesterday I've seen complaint that "pirate lord missions are too slow because I have to wait for time window each time" - person didn't realize he can just keep taking missions and doing different things while hit time window approaches.
Same with other activities - I've seen lot of complaints from people who just don't realize how to do it efficiently. Surely, payout could be raised so they will be satisfied - but then clever people will earn exorbitant money, yet again.
The only way to make it "fair" is, as someone already pointed out, just give everyone flat time-based salary. Which is stupid.
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