You not supposed to make more in corvette because there is not much past it anywayCongrats, you've reached your endgame!
I actually don't own one. It was from the previous example.
[Obsidian Ant] Elite Dangerous - The Credits Problem: A Case of Feeling Unrewarded?
- Thread starter SaliVader
- Start date
I actually don't own one. It was from the previous example.
Honestly?
The credits I'm offered for large cargo missions in my Anaconda in most systems I'm allied with don't seem to be worth much more than missions I was offered when I first started.
In fact, I was helping a friend new to the game last weekend, and he was offered $100K missions to run in his sidewinder, about what I typically see for my cargo missions.
But passenger missions are another matter, as I can make good money in my Beluga with 7 passengers paying $1mill each (as we did last night in ELITEcast.)
Bottom line? I wish the payment for services rendered made more sense.
I understand there has to be some variability, but the 2 ton missions offered to a new player in Sidewinder shouldn't have a similar payout to a 400 ton mission offered to an ally and nearly Elite trader...
...maybe the price shouldn't be completely linear, but if you pay $50K for 2 tons, then why not 20 times that, or $1Mill, for 400 tons? It is 200 times more cargo, so 20 times the cost may even be too low?
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What he says is true.
In order to solve basically all but the "I must earn 1bn credits a second, because reasons" complaints, FD need to balance all activities in the game, to earn roughly the same.
Piracy and mining pay a pitiful amount, and are basically not worth the effort.
Which is a shame if that's your chosen career.
Some people still think credits are a status symbol, and will flock to the Quince of the times.
But I think most people would be happy, if they could earn roughly the same no matter what profession they choose.
And I also mean PvP activities being a valid career.
Although, I have no idea where to start to fix this. Lol
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Bolding by me.
That's the real trick, isn't it? How much should a profession make, and how do you balance them against all ship types and skill levels? How do you balance credits against other in game "currencies," such as influence and reputation?
If I stuck with purely sightseeing missions, usually criminals, around the Bubble, I can make roughly around 20-30 million an hour. I have a ship specifically built to perform these missions, and I'm a fairly competent Buckyballer, so I perform an orbital insertion in a quarter of the time the "forum approved method" takes to do the same task. Add in a willingness to take heat damage to charge my FSD and fuel scoop at the same time, and I can make this much without board flips or travelling to the latest "get rich quick" scheme.
If I focus more on BGS work, where the goal is to increase influence, I still make around 7-8 million an hour. Should BGS work pay the same as sightseeing missions? Or is the influence part of my rewards? What about reputation I get, which I can "spend" to get missions from a faction I'm working against, with the intention of abandoning or betraying them?
Wierd. I've just completed another 3.5 mil cargo run (third one in ~40 minutes) in my Python. It was not a space trucker run either - just opportunistic "I go there anyway, so will take some cargo with me".
I think your Anaconda looks dodgy - check if there is some gang graffiti on it somewhere, or something
How indeed. So many thought-provoking questions. Pity no answers in sight.
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People talking about balance, but IMO it is that concept of balance that has devalued the game throughout it's development process.
In the early days there was "content" for the big ships, because they had a role that small ships couldn't do, and they could earn more CR/hour. And they were hard to get because they cost the same but earnings were so much lower (fun times)
But players cried so much that they were unable to destroy an Anaconda one on one with a Viper, that FDev "balanced" the ships. Now they are effectively the same, and you can even be more profitable in a small ship than a big one, despite the lack of investment.
Similarly there were career choices. Explorers were kind of cult figures because they did stuff that was hard for peanuts - because they wanted to!
Then FDev "balanced" the careers so that you could get Explorer Elite ranking by doing a few local tourist trips.
Careers shouldn't be balanced, ships shouldn't be balanced, opportunities for players with different real world lifestyles shouldn't be balanced.
Players should just choose to play, how they want, within their own restrictions, regardless of CR.
In the early days there was "content" for the big ships, because they had a role that small ships couldn't do, and they could earn more CR/hour. And they were hard to get because they cost the same but earnings were so much lower (fun times)
But players cried so much that they were unable to destroy an Anaconda one on one with a Viper, that FDev "balanced" the ships. Now they are effectively the same, and you can even be more profitable in a small ship than a big one, despite the lack of investment.
Similarly there were career choices. Explorers were kind of cult figures because they did stuff that was hard for peanuts - because they wanted to!
Then FDev "balanced" the careers so that you could get Explorer Elite ranking by doing a few local tourist trips.
Careers shouldn't be balanced, ships shouldn't be balanced, opportunities for players with different real world lifestyles shouldn't be balanced.
Players should just choose to play, how they want, within their own restrictions, regardless of CR.
This will require proper single-player game though (or at least fully separated/instanced one). Which someone in FDev does not want it to be.
Why does this game have credits?
The problem, is a made-up problem, a perceived problem. All in the head.
First off, there is no 'game'.. Classifying E.D. as a game is bad. There is no 'I win/I Won/End game' in E.D.
So as it is not a game, [some] players are wrongly looking for a <insert reference to wiggly bit> measuring challenge.
Is it based on biggest fleet?
Biggest Ship?
Biggest liquid credit balance?
What?
There is no need for it, because regardless, if you any one or all of those, you are simply no better than the player with none.
E.D. from the outset was a 'your way' thing. Changed on the fly by Fdev to 'our way', however the beast that is E.D. is not a game, and never will be. It's not a Sandbox, it's not a Sim.
It's an Experience, your experience. And yours is a whole lot different to mine.
Players constantly bemoan the riches and fleets of other players, with the usual, breaks immersion, breaks the background sim, breaks the rules, and it's all hyperbole. What it comes down to is jealousy.
Everything in the 'game' is available to *all* players. If you don't want to do something, no one is forcing you to. If you want to do something, you are free to do it. However, because you choose to do it, does not infer anyone else has to do it, or indeed, do it, the way you did it.
If players got it into their heads that is their experience, not anyone elses, we'd have much less aggro in relation to missions/balances/exploits.
You play your game and I'll play mine. All things being equal, we'll never effect each other.
First off, there is no 'game'.. Classifying E.D. as a game is bad. There is no 'I win/I Won/End game' in E.D.
So as it is not a game, [some] players are wrongly looking for a <insert reference to wiggly bit> measuring challenge.
Is it based on biggest fleet?
Biggest Ship?
Biggest liquid credit balance?
What?
There is no need for it, because regardless, if you any one or all of those, you are simply no better than the player with none.
E.D. from the outset was a 'your way' thing. Changed on the fly by Fdev to 'our way', however the beast that is E.D. is not a game, and never will be. It's not a Sandbox, it's not a Sim.
It's an Experience, your experience. And yours is a whole lot different to mine.
Players constantly bemoan the riches and fleets of other players, with the usual, breaks immersion, breaks the background sim, breaks the rules, and it's all hyperbole. What it comes down to is jealousy.
Everything in the 'game' is available to *all* players. If you don't want to do something, no one is forcing you to. If you want to do something, you are free to do it. However, because you choose to do it, does not infer anyone else has to do it, or indeed, do it, the way you did it.
If players got it into their heads that is their experience, not anyone elses, we'd have much less aggro in relation to missions/balances/exploits.
You play your game and I'll play mine. All things being equal, we'll never effect each other.
It's a moot point to discuss board hopping it seems. It is a means to optimize you gameplay towards max Cr. Just board hop until you have the maximum amount of missions to a set of nearby locations. You can select for missions with best payout. You can combine different mission types (e.g. passengers/cargo and data). None of this is very efficient without board hopping. You can get lucky, and sometime you are, but in general there are not 20 well paying missions on the boards that take 20 minutes to complete together because all have the same target station. There is no point debating that there are still many cheesy money making ways that utilize this method. This does break balance.
Also, i never said that everything should pay the same. I explicitly WANT skill based payout. I just don't want a system like now where mining and trading at best make 1-5 mill. cr/h (with best ship and skill) while stacking missions (board hopping) with no skill in a cobra makes 10 times that much. If basic tasks like mining and trading would pay enough to be happy with the progression the issue would be far worse. For me they don't.
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Unfortunately you do. You have more free time or figure out some trick, start earning "too much", FDev nerfs income for everybody - which makes mine abysmal (because I don't have time, don't know the trick).
Why they care that you earn too much money too much? Well, its not "your game" - because you are in the same MMO universe with everyone else.
Don't know about mining myself, but this is same case where you simply don't know how to trade properly. Now I easily make at least 10-15 mils/h just by *opportunistic* trading. If I decide really focus on it (e.g. use proper trade-optimized ship), it will be even more.
You can't flip the board until your cargo is full. You flip it 3 times and you done - you won't be getting anything new. You have to wait, or change station - same as without flipping. I suspect it will be fixed too, just harder to do due to diff servers and not such big priority anyway since infinite reset is fixed now.
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verminstar
Banned
Maybe. Its just for me it feels like more "summary for cognitively challenged", and every time I try to watch his videos I soon get this itching urge to scream "get to the bloody point already!!!"
While OA does tend to ramble on a bit...no bad thing imo...he has many followers and fans who have come to rely on his efforts as a primary source of unbiased information. What this guy has done fer the ED community simply outweighs that little le by a fairly huge margin.
Now compare that to the communications from frontier themselves and let us know how popular and effective it is at informing the playerbase.
I suppose one has to be cognitively challenged to understand common sense, right?
In 2 years of playing or so, I have never seen FDev nerf 'an earner' without someone crying about it first.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the players posting on youtube. 60m per hour in Quince, x mill per hour in Rhea etc etc
We've been finding ways to earn credits faster since the game launched. It's only with the proliferation of 'look I win' videos have the nerfs been so visible, because, everyone flocks to them.
Ask any long time commander and they'll tell you. These things don't just appear. If you go looking, you can find your own cash cow.
You don't hear anyone complaining about the cash-cows they don't know about.
Same old fallacy. It only appears this way.
FDev sees odd spikes on income almost instantly - because they have global database/server monitoring and if someone starts getting too much money unusually fast, they pick it up, check logs how its done and assign development priority to it. Development, testing is slow process and may take many weeks - so usually "nerf"/mechanics rework gets released after word already got out.
If FDev relied on public word to find issues with economy, it would be much slower to react.
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I've been playing at the other end of the spectrum, hopping between only two outstations in a Python just delivering data (and occasional other missions if they take me in the same direction). The rewards in terms of credits are pitiful, and even if you stack a lot of them together, they don't make six figures.
But they have been FUN ... because by stacking them, I increase the chances of interdictions, which gives me combat experience or, if I choose to do so, interdiction avoidance. They also occasionally require a diversion to another port, which adds variety. And occasional chain missions follow on, though the payout is again poor, less than 250,000 or so.
But they have been a lot of fun ! Never mind the credits .... in the end, this game is not about getting yourself a new Anaconda, Corvette or Cutter .... although a gift of the new T-10 might be welcome, so I'll gladly accept donations
But they have been FUN ... because by stacking them, I increase the chances of interdictions, which gives me combat experience or, if I choose to do so, interdiction avoidance. They also occasionally require a diversion to another port, which adds variety. And occasional chain missions follow on, though the payout is again poor, less than 250,000 or so.
But they have been a lot of fun ! Never mind the credits .... in the end, this game is not about getting yourself a new Anaconda, Corvette or Cutter .... although a gift of the new T-10 might be welcome, so I'll gladly accept donations
Agreed, and that would be about 1mil/cr on average. Pretty much every profession offers that, and more.
I'm going to assume you meant to say 1mil cr/hour?
No, it was more than that. I bought the Annie when I had about 230m in cash and a well-kitted Python to trade in, so let's call it about 320m, plus I also had (still have, actually) a Vulture (15m) and a Cobra (5m) which I haven't sold. So let's say I had 340m in total at the point where I splashed out on my first Conda. Which is conservative as it doesn't include anything I spent that I didn't get back (rebuys, donation missions, 10% loss on selling ships, etc etc) but whatever.
320 / 125 = 2.56m credits per hour on average, across the whole time I've been playing so far.
But that will be heavily weighted, much less in the first 30-50 hours of gameplay, and then a fair bit more in the last 80-100 or whatever.
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Missions and passengers should scale with the ship you are in, not be measured in cr/h for all players equally. You can fit a first class cabin in many ships, but the highest payers should want to be escorted in a Corvette or a Beluga, not an Asp. Although rarely, you should get a passenger who wants the old authentic feel of being escorted in a Cobra. Maybe 1% of missions.
As to other missions, it's risk vs reward. I don't relish the idea of losing my Conda, and that's only got an 8 million rebuy, but 8 million is a pain to recover. Your missions should scale according to your assets and ship you are in, so you always feel like you're on an accelerating curve, always rewarding playing with pleasure. This is such a simple idea that I'm surprised it isn't in the game already.
If you've got a sidey and 40k in the bank, then a mission giving 10k is great. But If you've got 40 million in the bank, you should be seeing missions giving 10 million, and if you've got a 400 million in the bank, then 100 million missions should be there for you. In reality, I'd tighten that back to missions giving you about 5% of your net worth.
This would mean that CG's and many other aspects of the economy would need redesigning, but it appears that no-one is that happy with the cash as it stands anyway.
As to other missions, it's risk vs reward. I don't relish the idea of losing my Conda, and that's only got an 8 million rebuy, but 8 million is a pain to recover. Your missions should scale according to your assets and ship you are in, so you always feel like you're on an accelerating curve, always rewarding playing with pleasure. This is such a simple idea that I'm surprised it isn't in the game already.
If you've got a sidey and 40k in the bank, then a mission giving 10k is great. But If you've got 40 million in the bank, you should be seeing missions giving 10 million, and if you've got a 400 million in the bank, then 100 million missions should be there for you. In reality, I'd tighten that back to missions giving you about 5% of your net worth.
This would mean that CG's and many other aspects of the economy would need redesigning, but it appears that no-one is that happy with the cash as it stands anyway.
That really doesnt answer the question. Sure the ceiling ends somewhere. And that ceiling should have appropriate tools. Currently the tools dont match the ladder. Thats clearly a game design issue. Not sure why you show so much resistence against this basic notion. Noone says the ladder must be extended endlessly, just that the ladder must be extended to the tools they have designed. Its not an extremely outrageous statement.
If the answers were easy, then this forum wouldn't be having this same discussion over and over and over again.
I mean, look at this random mission I took a screenshot of, in system I'd never visited before:
227k to deliver four economy VIPs 12 light years. How you view this mission's payout really depends upon a host of circumstances that changes from player to player:
- If I were a beginning player in a Hauler, this would be a huge amount of money, because I can take this mission in a ship that costs less than a third of what the mission is paying out.
- If I were doing BGS work, especially when starting a new theatre of operations, this is the kind of mission I'd take because I'm going to that system anyway, and my first-class cabin just happened to be empty. The reward is the influence and reputation gain, the credits merely a bonus.
- If I was playing for fun and profit (aka my sightseeing tour company), this mission wouldn't even rate a look, because I'd be operating out of a region of space I've spent three years, off and on, building up the contacts I need to make a lot of money in a short amount of time.
Mostly, though, this mission trips my "You can buy your own ship for that!" detector, which I find so annoying that I have to resort to headcanon just to preserve the game's verisimilitude.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
I don't get the 'earn the credits so that I do what I want' point, as OA's explanation is also hazy.
Sure most players want to fly the big 3, but there is a natural progress to get those ships - as in every game, and it is just fine as it is. Also, fighting thargoids is just like a late game status, again many ways similar to other games.
As for forcing activities on players they don't like, that may hold for mining, and perhaps pirating (plus griefing, of course), but otherwise credits keep flowing in.
Edit: you can earn millions easily with passenger hauling, you only need an Adder and two cabins.
Sure most players want to fly the big 3, but there is a natural progress to get those ships - as in every game, and it is just fine as it is. Also, fighting thargoids is just like a late game status, again many ways similar to other games.
As for forcing activities on players they don't like, that may hold for mining, and perhaps pirating (plus griefing, of course), but otherwise credits keep flowing in.
Edit: you can earn millions easily with passenger hauling, you only need an Adder and two cabins.
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one of the issues are in many ways that it is incredibly easy to earn vast amounts of money EARLY in the game while (compared to the big three) late in the game.
Risk vs Reward when looking at insurance cost makes small to medium ships the preferred ones.
Risk vs Reward when looking at insurance cost makes small to medium ships the preferred ones.