My Type 7 owes my 22 Million Credits...

[Scoob]

Hey all,

I only recently started playing the game again after a long break. Since returning I've tried a few jobs. I did a few Trade runs in my Asp Explorer, I then configured it for mining and dabbled in that for a while. I even jumped into my Imp. Eagle for a little BH action in a Haz Res - it was quiet that day lol

After playing around for a while, I settled on doing a few short loop trades. I was making fair money, around 480k cr, every 10-15 minutes or so, not bad while I was learning the ropes again. However, I thought "wouldn't this be better if I was shifting 264 units rather than 112" so I looked into getting a dedicated trader ship, as that was what I was doing.

So, after spending some of my prior session doing some fairly profitable trade runs, I bit the bullet as soon as I logged in and bought a Type 7. I kitted it out with mostly "D" rated (light) items but an A grade FSD. I left it unarmed, but with point defences and chaff. 22 Million Credits down, I set off to start moving decent amounts of wares on my preferred trade route...

However, overnight it seems, the markets had crashed a little. Rather than more than doubling (112t to 264t) my profits per loop, I ended up not doing so well. Not terribly but I expected better than the ~60% gain in profits. It'll take a while to "pay off" the Type 7 and break even, let alone consider my next ship.

So, I could grind these trade routes for a bit - I quite like relaxed trade runs from time to time - or would I be better off searching around?

I've heard tales of the Type 7 being what really started ramping up the income for many players. However, as things stand, it's not far ahead of my Asp Explorer set up for trading. The Asp of course has basically double the jump range and can use Medium Pads, giving a degree of flexibility. It's also fast of course, so can generally flee threats...I'm worried the Type 7 will be a sitting duck, unless I spend a lot more money on it.

Anyway, my post title is tongue in cheek, so please take it that way, but I would like some tips on putting my Type 7 to profitable use. I'm generally hanging around the Shinrarta area as I have all my ships stored there.

Oh, my friend is coming back to the game shortly, we thought it might be fun to team up, me in my Type 7, him in a Combat configured Cobra MkIII. He is affectively a new player again though - he's had longer away than me - and his Cobra isn't going to be that upgraded. How does the game play with a Freighter / Fighter pairing like this? My aim was to help boost his income a little so he can upgrade. We will spend some time with both/I] of us in fighters too at some point for a quick blast.

So, yeah, what are people's tips on utilising my Type 7 to its best potential? Initially Solo, but with my friend along at some point. Are passenger missions viable in this ship? I don't mind running a few peeps a few systems away, but I'm no tour guide lol.

Note: I'm not prepared to do that board logging thing people talk about to stack missions, seems like an exploit Frontier are hesitant to fix to me, but that's just my take on it

Cheers,

Scoob.

 

[shadragon]

Yes, I'm a T-7 pilot as well and see the same thing.

The BGS supply and demand system increases costs as you buy more while dropping prices when you sell more. Lucrative routes only last 1-2 runs before becoming much less profitable. This is true even if there is still high demand for the item you are hauling. The days of doing an A -> B -> A trade route repeatedly is well over.

The only time this is not true is stations with CG's active which suspend the usual BGS artificially.

Hauling missions (and passengers, of course) typically pay better and are more consistent.

 

[Mrat13]

The type 7 is only bad in open if you use weak shields and no armour. If that concept is too radical to you, either use a fast ship like the clipper, or go to solo or private group. Also, shock mines are good at slowing opponents down, if you want to fight back somehow.

Oh and you can actually win interdictions surprisingly easy in the type 7 thanks to the yaw rate.

For mega trading bucks though, use a type 9, or if you struggle with that ship, you'll need even more for an anaconda.

Oh, and if you find a good system for it, economy transport missions pay really well.

 

[Tadeus72]

The Type 7 can make you rich pretty fast.

For trading it's best to do bulk trading by using this tool:

https://eddb.io/trade/loops

It should be around 2mil every 20-30 minutes.

Or packing it full with passenger cabins (most of them economy, some higher for the rarer juicy jobs). There is currently a fortune to be made in passengers and Type 7 is one of the few best ships to do it (3x6 size and 3x5 size optionals). Just pack them full with cabins and do passenger runs.

*Hint - the pay is higher if the destination is a station far away from the star. So it's best to accept missions close to a system that has a far away station.

 

[kpmop]

You can boost your trade by simply checking system states - take medicines to outbreak, food to famine etc. You can also make a fair bit of cash from mission boards - easily a million plus for delivery missions (no stacking required!) once you're allied with local factions etc.

If you're thinking of pairing up with a cobra for defence, it might be worth getting your friend to consider a viper III instead (cheaper and more combat focused). You could fit some seeker missiles to your T7 to help out when your friend gets the shields down.

 

[Viscera]

I find trade quite relaxing when I do it. I don't look at the sheer CR/HR ratio though, I just look to profit. I I can make between 500 - 1000 credits profit on items, its a good run. I also like to try and mix hauls occassionaly and try to see if I can pop a few fetch us X missions for more profit.

Effectively I do a slow loop, for example taking stuff from High Tech to Agricultural, then Agriculture to Refinery, then Refinery to High Tech.

I also do mission trading - take a good paying mission, check the destination, and buy what ever I can that is appropriate.

Over time you get to know what items make good profits, and where you can sell them.

I have a few little trade routes I know from my home station that I can tap for good profit if I feel I really need to, but to be honest, money seems to flood in these days quite easily.

 

[Mrat13]

You can boost your trade by simply checking system states - take medicines to outbreak, food to famine etc. You can also make a fair bit of cash from mission boards - easily a million plus for delivery missions (no stacking required!) once you're allied with local factions etc.

If you're thinking of pairing up with a cobra for defence, it might be worth getting your friend to consider a viper III instead (cheaper and more combat focused). You could fit some seeker missiles to your T7 to help out when your friend gets the shields down.

Why would anyone force someone else to take less profit, just to make up for the fact they can't look after themselves. If anything, maybe his friend could get an Asp Ex, to make money alongside his friend, but still have a ship capable for fighting back for him and his friend, as well as the OP getting a clipper to do the same.

 

[5 Puppis]

Obligatory link to git gud trading guide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0

 

[Scoob]

Thanks for the replies all

@shadragon - yes, I'm learning this. Seems odd how tiny the market volumes are sometimes. I'll have a look at the missions board and see if anything takes my fancy.

@Mrat - Lol, Shields and Armour aren't something too radical for me at all. I'm new to the Type 7, so all tips on getting the most out of it are welcome. I'm happy to play with different loadouts, sacrificing a little cargo capacity as needed. I guess coming from an Asp X with 34 ly jump range, the current 16 (laden) of the Type 7 seems tiny lol. I could Engineer it I suppose, but I've only dabbled with Engineers briefly, and not since I was last playing. I might check out the Economy Transport missions you suggest

@Tradeus72 - I am actually aware of that tool, but thanks for reminding me. I appear to be already doing one of the more profitable loops near to me, but the profit per run has gone down a lot. Interestingly, I had hoped to get near that 2 million figure you mention, but the profit per item has reduced a little too much. I assume the markets will pick up again though?

So, Passenger missions appear to be a good option from what people are saying then. Should I harden my Type 7 with Armour and Weapons to undertake these? I mean, are they inherently dangerous or is the danger on a per-mission basis? I.e. you get warned of danger? While I can be asked to drop cargo by a pirate, what interest would they have in passengers if they're just "normal folk" and I'm not taking the local Senator to the Office Party.

Random question: when plotting longer-distant routes, does the "Plot Route" function take into account the need to refuel? I recall, ages ago, having to manually plot every jump of a route, now it's taken care off. Sure, I could add a fuel scoop, but I'd rather not if the route planner knows not to leave me empty at a system with no stations...

Cheers,

Scoob.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I'm not sure how far it affects the Type-7, but in my experience it (similar to the Python) is amongst the first Ships large enough with Cargo space to suffer from the "bulk tax".

So to counter that (seeing worse prices simply because you hold 200+ tons of a certain Commodity in your Cargo hold) :
- instead of carrying only a single Commodity filling your entire hold, rather carry 2 similar profit-making Commodities

This avoids getting hit hard by that "bulk tax".

PS.
Last time I was trading in my Cutter (528t), I was checking prices (mere Minutes old), go there, pickup a full load... and dock back just to see that the Commodity I hauled now offers over 500Cr/ton less profit. Just because I'm selling 528 tons.
Dividing up the Cargo into several Commodities gave me back much more normal prices.

Haven't tested specifically for where the boundaries of that bulk tax are, so I can only report what my eyes saw.

"Bulk Tax" :
- reduces your profits only due to you selling a Commodity in large volume

AFAIK the only places that aren't affected are Commodities with inflated price due to Faction State (i.e. Famine or Outbreak).
So hauling Basic Meds into an Outbreak place appears to always pay those ~3000-3100Cr/ton, almost like a fixed narrow price band for the duration of that Faction State.

 

[Scoob]

I guess I type slow...I missed a few replies lol

@kpmop - good tip. I'm glad the economy actually make such states have an impact. I assume this is a manual process, looking at each system, or do I get a "news" article about such things as a tip? The team up with my friend thing was more about fun co-op play and a little extra profit for him. Plus freighter / fighter is almost the classic role play for a game like this surely? Oh, saving my friends in combat, while he's in a fighter and I'm in a freighter = smug fun for me lol.

@5 puppis - video ready to go, will watch once I've typed this reply. Thanks

Scoob.

 

[5 Puppis]

So, Passenger missions appear to be a good option from what people are saying then. Should I harden my Type 7 with Armour and Weapons to undertake these? I mean, are they inherently dangerous or is the danger on a per-mission basis? I.e. you get warned of danger? While I can be asked to drop cargo by a pirate, what interest would they have in passengers if they're just "normal folk" and I'm not taking the local Senator to the Office Party.

Just need to pay attention to who your passengers are before accepting the missions. The mission descriptions will tell you how much hostility they attract. Random tourists won't attract much, while high profile targets like celebrities and CEOs attract more. Be careful with Master Criminals. If you have one on board, the cops will attack you if you get scanned.

Random question: when plotting longer-distant routes, does the "Plot Route" function take into account the need to refuel? I recall, ages ago, having to manually plot every jump of a route, now it's taken care off. Sure, I could add a fuel scoop, but I'd rather not if the route planner knows not to leave me empty at a system with no stations...

Yes, if you look at your route on the galaxy map there will be a little icon in the middle of your route that denotes the last scoopable star before you run out of fuel. A notice will also pop up on your HUD when you reach that star. The solid line is what you can travel using what's in your fuel tank, the dotted line is the the part of the route you'll have to refuel to reach.

 

[Scoob]

I'm really slow lol

@FalconFly - I wasn't even aware of the "bulk tax" or this 200 item threshold. Possibly that contributed to why my profits were even less. Seems an odd game mechanic, considering this IS a game and not real-life. I mean, they;ll pay full price if each of two players bring 200 units each, but they'll pay less if one player bring the exact same amount? Crazy. I'm guessing this isn't a well-documented "feature"?

Scoob.

 

[shadragon]

To stay with trading, but with a difference, try rares. AspX is best for this, but a T-7 could be used as well. 8 million profit per round trip, but there's a lot of jumping involved. You need to be able to sneak into a few places where your goods are illegal and put up with interdictions.

 

[Scoob]

Just need to pay attention to who your passengers are before accepting the missions. The mission descriptions will tell you how much hostility they attract. Random tourists won't attract much, while high profile targets like celebrities and CEOs attract more. Be careful with Master Criminals. If you have one on board, the cops will attack you if you get scanned.

Yes, if you look at your route on the galaxy map there will be a little icon in the middle of your route that denotes the last scoopable star before you run out of fuel. A notice will also pop up on your HUD when you reach that star. The solid line is what you can travel using what's in your fuel tank, the dotted line is the the part of the route you'll have to refuel to reach.

Ok, read the mission details basically

Does the scoopable star thing still appear if you have no fuel scoop? I mean, is it context sensitive based on ship loadout. The dotted line thing, makes sense, however could I potentially get stuck if, for example, the solid line takes me to an empty system (not stations etc.) and I have no fuel scoop? It the lesson here always have at least the most basic fuel scoop fitted? I used to scoop regularly when zooming around in my Asp X, but have never fitted one to anything else.

Scoob.

 

[Scoob]

To stay with trading, but with a difference, try rares. AspX is best for this, but a T-7 could be used as well. 8 million profit per round trip, but there's a lot of jumping involved. You need to be able to sneak into a few places where your goods are illegal and put up with interdictions.

Rares used to be a staple of mine when I last played. Indeed, the Asp X was fitted out for it. I tried one of my old Rares loops when I started playing again, however, it really didn't make the money it once did. In part due to low stocks of certain Rares along my route - I understand ware count is higher if there's a boom state.

Scoob.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

I'm really slow lol

@FalconFly - I wasn't even aware of the "bulk tax" or this 200 item threshold. Possibly that contributed to why my profits were even less. Seems an odd game mechanic, considering this IS a game and not real-life. I mean, they;ll pay full price if each of two players bring 200 units each, but they'll pay less if one player bring the exact same amount? Crazy. I'm guessing this isn't a well-documented "feature"?

Scoob.

It's hard to tell and I don't remember exactly when (or why) it was implemented. That was a long time ago.

I >believe< it was implemented to clear up hotspots and disincentive CMDRs to hit it off with Trading in a single spot indefinitely, basically an attempt to make them move around instead of hugging a "honey pot".
Back in these old Days, Trading was the biggest money-maker, so it received more attention for balancing purposes.

--- edit ---

Oh, found it. VERY very old indeed. Jan 2015, so that happened during the original V1.0 era already.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/94076-Bulk-Sale-Fee-Hidden-Tax-For-Traders

 

[shadragon]

Rares used to be a staple of mine when I last played. Indeed, the Asp X was fitted out for it. I tried one of my old Rares loops when I started playing again, however, it really didn't make the money it once did. In part due to low stocks of certain Rares along my route - I understand ware count is higher if there's a boom state.

Scoob.

Correct, the second round of a rares run is always more profitable as you know where the big numbers are. I skipped the 3-5 unit places and only did the 45-55 rares. the second time round. Had so much I had to leave some behind.

 

[Tadeus72]

You aren't supposed to even see a pirate NPC face-to-face when flying a Type 7. The great yaw speed allows it to win every interdiction mini game except against players. I only once lost one - because it bugged out and the target somehow hid behind a planet

But yeah, accidents can happen, so - you need to learn how to high wake out - that's a sure way to escape when interdicted. You can fit a 5A shield generator and 2 shield boosters if you aren't feeling too safe with you interdiction fighting skills.

Search for the "The Git Gud Guide to Trading in Open" I can't link it because it's getting deleted here on the forums because of swearwords It's designed for player interdictions which means you don't need to be so alert and prepared with NPCs (and you aren't supposed to submit to them). But if an accident happens you will know what to do.

I wouldn't buy any armor now cause it's expensive. No need if you aren't playin in Open.

 

[Scoob]

It's hard to tell and I don't remember exactly when (or why) it was implemented. That was a long time ago.

I >believe< it was implemented to clear up hotspots and disincentive CMDRs to hit it off with Trading in a single spot indefinitely, basically an attempt to make them move around instead of hugging a "honey pot".
Back in these old Days, Trading was the biggest money-maker, so it received more attention for balancing purposes.

Hmm, the bulk tax seems somewhat moot in that regard then, considering volumes are affecting profits and said profits can be reduced after just a handful of runs. Still, if someone want's to do the same trade run day in, day out, I say let them. I traditionally do things for fun, if I make a profit all the better. I enjoyed mining for a while - back when there were no limpets - and made money peacefully while relaxing. I did a few rares runs, picking up some bounties on the way, same with trading - however I was in a more well-rounded ship then. I've also spent hours doing bounty hunting with a friend, didn't make much money, but had fun.

Oh, I have been here since day one, original backer me, but never really had the time, or inclination, to grind the various money-makers (aka exploits some of them) over that time. Hence why I've only just got my first large ship

Scoob.