What's the deal with cockpit size?

[playfuldreamer]

I used to play on a big screen, and had absolutely no idea of the relative sizes of things, or indeed how the cockpits really looked. This isn't a problem of the game, though, it is a problem of the mind - we have two eyes for a reason. It isn't that E: D's fullest and best experience requires VR, it is that the brain requires it to appreciate dimensions and perspective. While I would argue that ED is best in VR, that is due to VR being what it is, rather than E: D being the problem.

But it is a problem with ED, specifically the design of the world.

It's possible, within a 2D space, to create visual cues which better reflect the scale and distance of objects. One only needs to use the vanity cam to see this at work: charge up your cam and use one of the views from behind the pilot's chair, looking forward. The FoV changes to such a degree as to better represent the scale of things--especially station interiors. Another issue is the scale of some details, like the structural braces inside hangars which look like objects we expect to be far smaller, or the fans which have a similar scale-reducing effect.

Any or all of this could have been mitigated with attention paid to this very aspect of the user experience. There simply aren't any cues for our eyes to judge scale properly unless the FoV is changed.

 

[Chrystoph]

The AspX is the lenght of a 747 jumbo jet, much taller and as wide as the 747 wingspan, while being much bulkier. Most ships are huge, even the Cobra is much bigger than most people think it is, there would be no reason for these ship's to have cramped cockpits.

Even the eagle is much, much larger than any today's fighter jet.

This is one of those disputable statements, depending on the source you look at. The models (which are the primary guideline for the game) are not big enough for the above to be true, the published statistics don't support the position because they are designed around game balance mechanics instead of physics, and the proportioning of the cockpits in relation to the rest of the ship doesn't work.

In effect, the only thing that supports this argument is a chart that tells you to ignore all of the evidence to the contrary.

Spoiler

 

[777Driver]

This is one of those disputable statements, depending on the source you look at. .

Nothing disputable about Askavirs statement.

 

[Weps]

The thing bothered me at first too but now it's starting to make sense. Their secret update Club Penguin Telepresence Edition will not work otherwise.

 

[Father Cool]

This is one of those disputable statements, depending on the source you look at. The models (which are the primary guideline for the game) are not big enough for the above to be true, the published statistics don't support the position because they are designed around game balance mechanics instead of physics, and the proportioning of the cockpits in relation to the rest of the ship doesn't work.

In effect, the only thing that supports this argument is a chart that tells you to ignore all of the evidence to the contrary.

Spoiler

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...mX72a6w_7qyIR._2SoJRAPMgASbMzsNpw66yQhCqo.jpg

There is no dispute. The ships are the size they are. We can extract the models and the pilot seat and scale everything accordingly.

They are huge.

The AspX isnt quite 747 size though. The 747 is about 20m longer and is the size of a FDL.

 

[777Driver]

There is no dispute. The ships are the size they are. We can extract the models and the pilot seat and scale everything accordingly.

They are huge.

The AspX isnt quite 747 size though. The 747 is about 20m longer and is the size of a FDL.

Slightly smaller, although the AspX is definitely larger than the 747 SP variant. As you already said, the models have been extracted. Quite certain Askavir also uses VR, unless someone has been inside VR there is no way they comment on correct scale.

 

[Jenner]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...liaq.jpg/1200px-Bridge_of_the_RV_Sikuliaq.jpg
http://www.ship-technology.com/uploads/project/adventure/images/bridge.jpg
https://images.r.cruisecritic.com/features/2017/08/what-is-bridge.jpg
https://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/rolls-royce-ship-bridge.jpeg
http://www.ship-technology.com/uploads/project/7784/images/150891/large/4l-image.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Tallship...emaker/i-qJVmV8W/0/X2/ts2013-6945-Edit-X2.jpg

Cool pictures!

Ok, I want wood flooring and accents on my bridge in Elite, now. For better Basking of course.

 

[Mechanist]

Maybe it's a problem of scale in ED. But maybe OP is right and there's a lot of empty space without use...even on the big ones.
So far we only see the cockpits of every ship and especially in some medium size ships they look too big.
As we don't know the exact layout of every ship (crew quarters, storage, engine room, etc) we don't know how the empty space / used space ratio is.

Here's a good example of a very known medium size ship which can serves as "Home" as well .
The cockpit is relatively small, similar to today's Passenger planes. Most space seems to be taken by engine room and corridors.
Looks pretty functional at first glance.

Spoiler

So please FD...give us the detailed construction plans of our ships!!! I want to build a real life Cutter seat

 

[dannysquid]

Is it maybe a consequence of early space-legs experiments? You'd want a bit of room to manoeuvre. First person shooters tend to have unnaturally large gaps between things to keep things smooth and flowing.

 

[Father Cool]

Slightly smaller, although the AspX is definitely larger than the 747 SP variant. As you already said, the models have been extracted. Quite certain Askavir also uses VR, unless someone has been inside VR there is no way they comment on correct scale.

Sorry of course there are many 747 variants. I was referrig to the 747-4 with regard the FDL. The FDL is a tad longer. The Asp is pretty much bang on for the 747 SP. Its not really the 747 that people know and love though to visualise size.

I have extracted the models myself from the game so its pretty easy to compare like for like using the pilots seat and pilot as a reference as that remains constant for all ships.

 

[babelfisch]

This is one of those disputable statements, depending on the source you look at. The models (which are the primary guideline for the game) are not big enough for the above to be true, the published statistics don't support the position because they are designed around game balance mechanics instead of physics, and the proportioning of the cockpits in relation to the rest of the ship doesn't work.

In effect, the only thing that supports this argument is a chart that tells you to ignore all of the evidence to the contrary.

Spoiler

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...mX72a6w_7qyIR._2SoJRAPMgASbMzsNpw66yQhCqo.jpg

There is only one thing that matters: Scale. So take a look at the size of your pilot, compare it to the ship and you'll realise that you are wrong.

 

[Martian Successor]

Not a fat lot in it tbh.
[url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/Xessive/Mobile%20Uploads/Hot-Toys-Millennium-Falcon-Cockpit-800x509.jpg[/URL]

That's not an accurate recreation of the Falcon cockpit's scale.

There's a bit more space in the Falcon's cockpit than that as we can see from production stills:

The sidwinders cockpit is still larger than the millenium falcons and the falcon is more like the size of an eagle.

[url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/Xessive/Cockpit_MESH_RENDER.png[/URL]

Compared to the above images the Sidewinder's cockpit is a bit smaller than the Falcon's cockpit. The Falcon itself is more like the size of a Cobra MK III, in fact it's a little longer than the Cobra. Its cockpit is pretty much the size of the Cobra's give or take some differences in width and height.

 

[Father Cool]

Those production stills are deceptive. I will dig some dims out when I get home later. You can see the console between chewy and Han is the same as the model and the rear wall has been removed on the second image to allow the cameras to film. The model pic that I posted is a scale replica.

The cobra pit is much much bigger

 

[Martian Successor]

Those production stills are deceptive. I will dig some dims out when I get home later. You can see the console between chewy and Han is the same as the model and the rear wall has been removed on the second image to allow the cameras to film. The model pic that I posted is a scale replica.

The cobra pit is much much bigger

The console in between Han and Chewie is a little less cramped together than in the replica image. Harrison actually needs to reach over to get to a switch in the life size version of the cockpit whereas in that replica he wouldn't need to. In the second image the camera is placed exactly where the rear wall would be instead.

The Cobra cockpit is definitely wider but only slightly longer than the Falcon's. Those two "crates" you can see at either side in the back of the Cobra's cockpit can easily be replaced with 2 more chairs and you'll basically have a wider slightly more spacious version of the Falcon's pit.

These scale comparisons for example look quite bang on in my opinion if judging the two ships by cockpit size:

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

Wow. The Cobra is physically bigger than I thought! (I think I was looking at the screen and mentally mapping it to the size of a car)

Absolutely loving some of the ideas here, and also the piece of Sidewinder art posted upthread. I still think a few of those flight decks really are huge (T9, for instance, which - as I've said before, is probably big enough to drop a small terraced house into), but actually I do get, and accept, the point that there's nothing wrong with a little space or opulence, especially if you're flying Saud Kruger

Interesting also to see that the technical possibilities jibe with my uneducated guesswork!

Thanks once again for all the contributions so far.

 

[Father Cool]

I will need to dig out evidence later but as a starter the cobra to approx 40m wide so it probably about 1.5x the size that you have there.

 

[askavir]

This guy extracted the models and shows all the ships next to the game model of pilot in the chair, so it's pretty good for showing scale:

[video=youtube;t2uaRHFmBT4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2uaRHFmBT4[/video]

In this older video, also from the same guy, doesn't have all the current ship,s but he added an F-14 and a jumbo airliner with the correct scale for comparison:

[video=youtube;W4bEQlVvUvI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4bEQlVvUvI[/video]

 

[Darkslayer]

It would be cool to have a small ship with a really small cockpit for local business. Dunno what I'd use one for exactly but a nice, claustrophobic cockpit would be cool.
Reminds me of pretending I was flying a Battlestar Galactica fighter whilst under the duvet, back in the day (my early 20s )

Have you tried a Viper Mk4?

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

The console in between Han and Chewie is a little less cramped together than in the replica image. Harrison actually needs to reach over to get to a switch in the life size version of the cockpit whereas in that replica he wouldn't need to. In the second image the camera is placed exactly where the rear wall would be instead.

The Cobra cockpit is definitely wider but only slightly longer than the Falcon's. Those two "crates" you can see at either side in the back of the Cobra's cockpit can easily be replaced with 2 more chairs and you'll basically have a wider slightly more spacious version of the Falcon's pit.

These scale comparisons for example look quite bang on in my opinion if judging the two ships by cockpit size:

https://i.imgur.com/hjbWonp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8he9Ku6.jpg

lol, if you now paste in the screen where we can see the krait wireframe next to the cobra, we will see that the Krait will be as big as the MF

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

Check out the crew deck of the FDL with those windows it makes me thing of a party bus.

Or the Conda with the elevator in the back to go to my commander's apartment, galley, and lavatory. Plus the rec room, armory, engineering, cargo, and the gimp space for my SLF pilot cause she doesn't want to sit on the bridge with me.

I repped you earlier, so couldn't give you one for this. If I could, you'd have it! Still lmao! [up] [up]