General / Off-Topic Help me Professor Yaffle. You're my only hope to explain the Manafort Indictment

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Frank

Frank
Of course I'd prefer the old bird's opinion, but if there's anyone else out there that could explain, that would be cool.

There doesn't appear to be any charges about vote rigging or election fraud? Trump already sacked him. Is it possible that this domino piece is so far removed from the others that they'll stay upright after this one Topples? Do you think he will do some sort of deal to lessen his sentence? Do you think there's a chance that Trump will pardon him? What will happen if Trump does try to pardon him? Obstruction of justice?
 
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Boomer Kay

B
Frank said:
There doesn't appear to be any charges about vote rigging or election fraud?
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DNZGM6_VAAAXe82.jpg
 

Frank

Frank
Thanks guys.

I'll have a good chance to see everything once I've finished work <grin>

Thanks guys.

I'll have a good chance to see everything once I've finished work <grin>
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
From what I've heard the charges are mainly about conspiracy to defraud the US government of tax money and lying to Federal agents about it.

Who knows what else will shake out, though?
 

duckofdeath

duckofdeath
Jenner said:
From what I've heard the charges are mainly about conspiracy to defraud the US government of tax money and lying to Federal agents about it.

Who knows what else will shake out, though?
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The main charge is "conspiracy against the United States", that is legal mumbo jumbo for treason.
The conspiracy part of it also means there will be more charges to follow, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a conspiracy... :D
 
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FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
Trump is finished. It's over. Were he not so narcissistic I'd expect him to resign today. In fact we now know what last weeks desperate attempt to associate Clinton with this investigation, as well as the Fox News attacks on Clinton, were really all about. As well as increasingly desperate calls to fire Mueller.

This guy, Papadopoulus, flipped a few weeks ago. Read the footnote.

DNZSul6UQAAkIlf.jpg

This is history unfolding before us.
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
Yaffle
Money laundering is the process of making illegally obtained money appear to be from a legitimate source.

Usually it relates to proceeds of crime, where you obtain money for (say) selling drugs or stolen goods. You have a problem that it's hot, so you need to hide it. First you get it into the banking system (placement) then mix it up with a lot of other money (layering) making it hard to trace then you have it appear as yours via a seemingly innocent route (integration).

In this case the indictment states that the accused obtained funds from work in Ukraine, and hid those funds from the US Authorities (one would guess to avoid tax and to avoid someone spotting it was from Ukraine). So we have money placed overseas, then layered through a series of companies and trusts. Integration is alleged by the purchase of property which was then used as security for a loan (clean cash) at cheap rates which he could only obtain by lying about his source of wealth.

It lays at their door the accusation that some of these funds were used to sponsor lobbying of US officials, without them pointing out the provenance of the funds, which they are obliged to do.

Does that help?
 

FrankMurphy

FrankMurphy
FuzzySpider said:
Trump is finished. It's over. Were he not so narcissistic I'd expect him to resign today. In fact we now know what last weeks desperate attempt to associate Clinton with this investigation, as well as the Fox News attacks on Clinton, were really all about. As well as increasingly desperate calls to fire Mueller.

This guy, Papadopoulus, flipped a few weeks ago. Read the footnote.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNZSul6UQAAkIlf.jpg

This is history unfolding before us.
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Interesting, in the twitter feed above it mentions that the money laundering etc happened whilst Manafort was working for Podesta who was Hilary's campaign manager.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ting-democratic-lobbyist-tony-podesta-n812776
 
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FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
FrankMurphy said:
Interesting, in the twitter feed above it mentions that the money laundering etc happened whilst Manafort was working for Podesta who was Hilary's campaign manager.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ting-democratic-lobbyist-tony-podesta-n812776
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Not quite.

Tony Podesta is the chairman of the Podesta Group and the brother of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign chairman. John Podesta is not currently affiliated with the Podesta Group and is not part of Mueller's investigation.
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Frank

Frank
Yaffle said:
Money laundering is the process of making illegally obtained money appear to be from a legitimate source.

Usually it relates to proceeds of crime, where you obtain money for (say) selling drugs or stolen ...
Does that help?
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I take it that it's been the standard procedure of the FBI for a long time and that's why Al Capone was done for tax evasion then.

The tweets Fuzzy Spider pointed out are brilliant. One question about setting bail. The Tweets said that Manafort might start thinking about cooperating fully if he's left to stew in jail. Is it possible that Trump might bail him out?
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
Yaffle
Frank said:
I take it that it's been the standard procedure of the FBI for a long time and that's why Al Capone was done for tax evasion then.

The tweets Fuzzy Spider pointed out are brilliant. One question about setting bail. The Tweets said that Manafort might start thinking about cooperating fully if he's left to stew in jail. Is it possible that Trump might bail him out?
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Al Capone predates the offence of laundering, it only came in with the Money Laundering Control Act of 1986. A false etymology of the term is that he ran a series of laundrettes which he pretended to get clean money from. I don't know about US tax law, but in the UK all your worldwide income is subject to tax be it legal or not. For more reading on that have a google about Lindi St Clair (mildly NSFW).
 
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FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
State has asked Manaforts bail to be set at $10 million.

Remember - if money laundering is involved he can't bail himself out unless the money can be established to be from an untainted source. Problematic for Trump to bail him without implicating himself further.
 

FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
Frank said:
But then isn't that why we all want Trump to bail him out <grin>

Will Trump pay Manafort's legal fees?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-michael-caputo-pay-legal-fees-a8013676.html
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They've pleaded not guilty to all charges. I think Gates has his bail set at $5 million. Bizarrely, Gates lawyer didn't show and he had to rely on a public defender.

Whitehouse told the press that, bizarrely, this proves Hillary Clinton/Russia collusion. They're trying to distance themselves from Manafort.

Paul Ryan got quizzed, didn't comment on it. Talked about tax reform. Depending on what happens in the next two or three days expect Republicans to start keeping Trump very much at arms length.

Sessions, Pence, and Trump met today for dinner.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/357783-trump-to-lunch-with-sessions-amid-manafort-charges

I've read that this meeting might well have been illegal. Sessions is certainly a target of this investigation, as is Trump, and meetings like this could result in conspiracy charges later. They're panicking and possibly exposing themselves to even more legal danger.
 
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Frank

Frank
Anybody care to speculate about the absence of Michael Flynn? I mean that's got to be a good sign? Isn't it?
 
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