So, how much realism is too much realism for Elite: Dangerous?

On one hand, people say "Realistically" in order to prove a point when explaining a choice for how the game plays and rewards you while on the other hand people say, "For Convience" when explaining when the game goes more in a fictional direction for gameplay and rewards.

The Galaxy, the controls, the combat mechanics, the mining mechanics, the trade mechanics, the economy, the idea of missions boards text the minor factions spout at you, the facial expressions the minor factions give based on your Rep, the ship management, the ship design and the orgasmic sound design, are based within the notion of realism and are all damn near perfect. But that doesn't mean that the player feels the same way about the rest of the game.

A great example is on one end, "Instant Ship Transfer is great on saving on time so I can spend it playing in the ship I want."
And on the other, "Timed Ship Transfer makes more sense because without it, why can't we just instantly go from station to station?"

And to be honest, I'm with the Gameplay Centric (GC) side of the argument than the Realism Centric (RC) side on this one.

There has to be Logic to a game because without it, it wouldn't be understandable. But there's a difference between Fantasy Logic and Real-Life Logic. And when you try to apply real-life logic to a game like Elite: Dangerous that's based 1000 years into the future, there's going to be a break of Immersion and is going to raise more questions than answers.

Ex: Why don't we have EDDB.IO or INARA.CZ built within our ships so we know what station has what modules and what every unlocked Engineer wants so they can upgrade our ships? (I mean, hell, a piece of paper with everything that engineers need would be good enough)
Ex: Why don't pilots have to eat or drink? There's food and water in the game so it's possible.
Ex: Why does your ship explode when you run out of oxygen?

I honestly feel if you're going to use Realism/Immersion as an argument to the reason why credit earning is so low, then you have A LOT MORE things in Elite Dangerous to argue with in terms of Realism/Immersion.

Just saying, people were able to be immersed in a reality of Superhero Comics/Movies and those things have barely and inch of Real-Life Logic to them as a whole. But it was the Fantasy Logic that keeps them so interesting and intriguing.

Hell, the need to find occupied space pods have damn near died out on the release of 2.4 because not many people feel they are properly being rewarded for the time they spent in the RNG Signal Sources, finding them. "Search and Rescue" could have been a new and lucritve profession in Elite Dangerous all together. Traveling to distant planets and USS's, searching for crashed ships to help people and earn a lot of money doing it.

But instead a portion of players have resulted to doing other tasks they find boring or tedious just to get the module or ship that they want just to see that task get a nerfed in a patch. The game should revolve around the player not the player revolvling around the game, especially in an Open-World, Playground-Style type game.
 
Eating and drinking to stay alive would not bring anything to EDs gameplay. Waiting for your ship to arrive do.

However ED is still in many ways a bare bone game, sure there are many things to do, but if you want to dig down into let's say mining, it's pretty simple and lack many features.

Game loop and depth need to be more completed, and hopefully 2018 will bring us that.
 
I think the fiction should be as internally consistent as possible, as this aids willing suspension of disbelief. But I'm not interested in realism as such. This is a game in which energy shields block machine gun bullets after all. The emphasis should be on fun first and making sure the fiction follows its own logic a close second. I truly don't care about whether any of this stuff is, or could ever be, possible in real life.
 
Would make a good opportunity for the fuel rats to create a fuud bats subgroup for people who are low on rations and not close to a station that sells rations :p
 
Would make a good opportunity for the fuel rats to create a fuud bats subgroup for people who are low on rations and not close to a station that sells rations :p

:D ... lol ... "Yo, f00d rats? I's outta pizza. Where I am? Some 65KLy outta bubble. When's yo delivery here?"
 
Eating and drinking to stay alive would not bring anything to EDs gameplay. Waiting for your ship to arrive do.

I would argue that having a FSD ship and a Combat ship is a great combo, but if you jump to a Civil War system and have to wait 10 minutes for your combat ship to arrive, then not much active and planned gameplay can come from that and that's my problem with "Timed Ship Transfer".
 
I would argue that having a FSD ship and a Combat ship is a great combo, but if you jump to a Civil War system and have to wait 10 minutes for your combat ship to arrive, then not much active and planned gameplay can come from that and that's my problem with "Timed Ship Transfer".

Them "1st world problems" :D
 
I think the fiction should be as internally consistent as possible, as this aids willing suspension of disbelief. But I'm not interested in realism as such. This is a game in which energy shields block machine gun bullets after all. The emphasis should be on fun first and making sure the fiction follows its own logic a close second. I truly don't care about whether any of this stuff is, or could ever be, possible in real life.

I'm with you 100% on that one

"Hungry? We deliver! ANYWHERE! ANYWHEN! Order now!"

I just spat up my drink!
 
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Agreed, even when the priority is realism crippling the gameplay for the sake of it doesn't sit well in my book. And FD have stated that elite is not a Space Simulator, they try to have as much realism as possible but it's not intended to be 100% Sim, and quoting The lord himself DBOBE "Sometimes you gotta sacrifice realism in order to make a great game"
 
The game should revolve around the player not the player revolvling around the game, especially in an Open-World, Playground-Style type game.

Heavily disagree. What you describe here are merely two different games. Many people enjoy one approach over the other. The player needing to revolve around the game creates situations of mastery, and with it very strong sense of accomplishment and vivid memories. And entire genre is built around the very idea. Rouge-likes. (not to be confused with rogue clones.)
 
I would argue that having a FSD ship and a Combat ship is a great combo, but if you jump to a Civil War system and have to wait 10 minutes for your combat ship to arrive, then not much active and planned gameplay can come from that and that's my problem with "Timed Ship Transfer".

Well yes. There are good reasons for timed transfer*, but the player base also asked for the ability to SEND ships ahead to a destination too.
This was going to be looked at, but thus far has fallen off the page. Maybe it'll arrive with the "beyond" updates.


*Elite isn't an arcade game for instant action, it's survival genre - set in a massive galaxy. If a 'world' based survival game such as S.T.A.L.K.E.R. requires a player to lug stored food, munitions and guns between caches in their backpack for miles between different areas, then why should this be any surprise that you have to play a space game spread out across a galaxy in a similar way?
 
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It takes 30 minutes to move a ship 150Ly between stations.

It takes 2 seconds to sell / remove 500 tonnes of cargo, and another 2 seconds to load 500 tonnes of new cargo.

If you die, you have to have your ship loaded into the last place you docked, even if that was hundreds of Ly away, instead of going to the closest station and filling in paperwork for an insurance claim.

/thread
 
Heavily disagree. What you describe here are merely two different games. Many people enjoy one approach over the other. The player needing to revolve around the game creates situations of mastery, and with it very strong sense of accomplishment and vivid memories. And entire genre is built around the very idea. Rouge-likes. (not to be confused with rogue clones.)

You misunderstand me. When I say "the game should revolve around the player", I mean the game should react to what to player does and all aspects of the game should be equally rewarding since there isn't a definate "END" to the game. The other way around means the player is being lead by the game, doing what the game tells them to do and when. Ex: Campain- Style games with the main reward being the story and gameplay sequences.
 
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Well yes. There are good reasons for timed transfer*, but the player base also asked for the ability to SEND ships ahead to a destination too.
This was going to be looked at, but thus far has fallen off the page. Maybe it'll arrive with the "beyond" updates.
I hope it does, as I think it's a far better way of applying ship transfers.
 
Well yes. There are good reasons for timed transfer*, but the player base also asked for the ability to SEND ships ahead to a destination too.

Why not not just cut out the middle man and just have instant ship transfer? instead of planning ahead and sending ships and calling ships to locations, just be one and done.
 
On one hand, people say "Realistically" in order to prove a point when explaining a choice for how the game plays and rewards you while on the other hand people say, "For Convience" when explaining when the game goes more in a fictional direction for gameplay and rewards.

The Galaxy, the controls, the combat mechanics, the mining mechanics, the trade mechanics, the economy, the idea of missions boards text the minor factions spout at you, the facial expressions the minor factions give based on your Rep, the ship management, the ship design and the orgasmic sound design, are based within the notion of realism and are all damn near perfect. But that doesn't mean that the player feels the same way about the rest of the game.

A great example is on one end, "Instant Ship Transfer is great on saving on time so I can spend it playing in the ship I want."
And on the other, "Timed Ship Transfer makes more sense because without it, why can't we just instantly go from station to station?"

And to be honest, I'm with the Gameplay Centric (GC) side of the argument than the Realism Centric (RC) side on this one.

There has to be Logic to a game because without it, it wouldn't be understandable. But there's a difference between Fantasy Logic and Real-Life Logic. And when you try to apply real-life logic to a game like Elite: Dangerous that's based 1000 years into the future, there's going to be a break of Immersion and is going to raise more questions than answers.

Ex: Why don't we have EDDB.IO or INARA.CZ built within our ships so we know what station has what modules and what every unlocked Engineer wants so they can upgrade our ships? (I mean, hell, a piece of paper with everything that engineers need would be good enough)
Ex: Why don't pilots have to eat or drink? There's food and water in the game so it's possible.
Ex: Why does your ship explode when you run out of oxygen?

I honestly feel if you're going to use Realism/Immersion as an argument to the reason why credit earning is so low, then you have A LOT MORE things in Elite Dangerous to argue with in terms of Realism/Immersion.

Just saying, people were able to be immersed in a reality of Superhero Comics/Movies and those things have barely and inch of Real-Life Logic to them as a whole. But it was the Fantasy Logic that keeps them so interesting and intriguing.

Hell, the need to find occupied space pods have damn near died out on the release of 2.4 because not many people feel they are properly being rewarded for the time they spent in the RNG Signal Sources, finding them. "Search and Rescue" could have been a new and lucritve profession in Elite Dangerous all together. Traveling to distant planets and USS's, searching for crashed ships to help people and earn a lot of money doing it.

But instead a portion of players have resulted to doing other tasks they find boring or tedious just to get the module or ship that they want just to see that task get a nerfed in a patch. The game should revolve around the player not the player revolvling around the game, especially in an Open-World, Playground-Style type game.

You're arguing with an imaginary person. Nobody believes any of the goofy things that you think you're debunking. The ship transfer argument for example has nothing to do with hard-line realism and is entirely a question of what kind of game we want to play and how we want it to work. It is the same as arguing about hitpoints vs location-based damage in an RPG. One of them may in some way be more "realistic" but that's not really what the conversation is about.

If you want to argue various points of the game's design in any kind of productive way, you should first consider the possibility that your opposition are not hypocritical idiots; and that they may have given these matters a great deal of thought and have based those positions on something more than "Durr-realism!"

Everybody knows it's a game.
 
You're arguing with an imaginary person. Nobody believes any of the goofy things that you think you're debunking. The ship transfer argument for example has nothing to do with hard-line realism and is entirely a question of what kind of game we want to play and how we want it to work. It is the same as arguing about hitpoints vs location-based damage in an RPG. One of them may in some way be more "realistic" but that's not really what the conversation is about.

If you want to argue various points of the game's design in any kind of productive way, you should first consider the possibility that your opposition are not hypocritical idiots; and that they may have given these matters a great deal of thought and have based those positions on something more than "Durr-realism!"

Everybody knows it's a game.

You must be new here, then. Are you honestly saying that my points are invalid because nobody apart of the fan-base uses the "immersion" and "realism" excuse for nerfs and credit drought we've experience over the year? (especially the Rhea system most recently?) I don't know, man, I'm only to believe that you're new here given your statement.

DISCLAIMER: I haven't call anybody of the Elite: Dangerous Fanbase "hypocritcal idiots" and have treated the Opposition with respect and integrity. Just putting that out there!
 
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