VR vs Monitor?

[RidingTheFlow]

With regards to hardware to drive 8k, that doesn't matter. The idea is that it is upscaled (using hardware in the headset itself), and the primary benefit is field of view and elimination of screen door

Oh, so its still blurry? That's no big benefit (at least for me). I just want to be able visually distinguish Cobra from Sidewinder at moderate distance.
Or all they have to do is to invent magic upscaler that will reconstruct details from low res picture into high-res one - did their kickstarter promised this?

I don't have much of issue with screendoor myself, as your brain learns to filter it out pretty fast. Neither I found FOV on CV1 restrictive.

 

[Space Dandy]

I am hoping the pimax 8k or next version of Rift will be soon! As this is when I am likely to jump in.

 

[shadragon]

Oh, so its still blurry?

Playing with HUD color schemes helps a lot. I can tell a Python from an FDL at distance so it isn't that bad for game elements, just some text is hard to read on occasion.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Playing with HUD color schemes helps a lot. I can tell a Python from an FDL at distance so it isn't that bad for game elements, just some text is hard to read on occasion.

Well I also *kind* of could *sometimes* but I often had to struggle and been able to tell what's this grey blob of an enemy even does with their direction. I didn't like how it negatively impacted my combat performance and enjoyment.
Text wasn't too bad - will harm your eyes on long run, but you not supposed to play VR for hours anyway so for me less an issue.

 

[lenna]

With regards to hardware to drive 8k, that doesn't matter. The idea is that it is upscaled (using hardware in the headset itself), and the primary benefit is field of view and elimination of screen door. The intention is that VR machines today will be able to use the Pimax 8k using upscaling, until the computer hardware catches up.

No point getting an 8k solution for ED... up scaling on the display is a bit of a joke really as it does not entirely mitigate object level of detail concerns. Unless there is a sufficient number of pixels to make an object distinctive all that would be produced is a higher resolution blob. Where upscaling may be beneficial is in n/r view cases but in those particular instances all that would happen is effectively a softening of some of the harder edges.

Is 8K VR a practical option at this point? I doubt it, it is going to be a gimmick for the foreseeable future IMO. It is something to keep an eye on, but not worth investing in IMO. You would be better investing in HD resolution VR solutions like the VIVE or Rift IMO.

 

[GraXXoR]

First you need to wait for graphics hardware which will be able to drive that 8K at 90FPS.
This will not take just "a couple of months"

Bear in mind that the device is not an 8K monitor, which would be four times the resolution of a 4K monitor. It is merely 2 4K monitors side-by-side. I am currently running elite dangerous with a 1080 TI on three 4K monitors using 66% Subsampling.
Image quality is miles ahead of my 1080p monitors are used before.

The reason why it uses 8K, two 4K monitors, is 90% to do with the screen door effect. It still The cheapest model runs at the native vertical resolution of 1440p and a horizontal resolution of 2560 Which is the highest resolution that can be used with DP 1.4 without compression. The more expensive model requires to display port cables to power the two 4K monitors at 90 FPS.

This is far higher resolution than the current 1080×1200 per eye resolution of the oculus.

The 8k is usable with a 1070 as it upscales the image. Pretty sure I will be able to use my AMD Fury with it, but I will have to turn down some settings.

If you get an 8kX which 2x4k screens then that will need next gen hardware I suspect.

Nah, upscaling will kill the point of trying to reduce the blurriness. Same with motion interpolation tricks - which kind of work, but also produce a lot of artefacts here and there.
If you want really enjoy it, you will need a power to render it properly at full res, no real way around it - can't get picture information out of nowhere.

I am certain that the 1080 TI in SLI is already up to the job. It just remains for the guys to get the drivers working with SLI.

 

[Crank Larson]

Not really, I keep hearing this argument in support of VR for ED but that is far from true IMO. That is not to say I would not recommend VR for ED though...

And what are your arguments against this, then?

I'm not saying it isn't early days for VR, of course it is. But it certainly is a leap in gaming experience - though only in games designed for VR (of which E: D is, in my opinion, the best). Minecraft in VR (for example) doesn't really add anything at all to the Minecraft experience.

Prior to VR, I played E: D on a big screen (3m wide). With a full surround sound system, ED Tracker, and all sorts of other items, this was quite immersive. But it doesn't come close to a VR headset and headphone (unless you are someone that is adversely affected by VR - fortunately, I am not and have never suffered a moment of nausea).

 

[GraXXoR]

First you need to wait for graphics hardware which will be able to drive that 8K at 90FPS.
This will not take just "a couple of months"

The 8k is usable with a 1070 as it upscales the image. Pretty sure I will be able to use my AMD Fury with it, but I will have to turn down some settings.

If you get an 8kX which 2x4k screens then that will need next gen hardware I suspect.

Nah, upscaling will kill the point of trying to reduce the blurriness. Same with motion interpolation tricks - which kind of work, but also produce a lot of artefacts here and there.
If you want really enjoy it, you will need a power to render it properly at full res, no real way around it - can't get picture information out of nowhere.

No point getting an 8k solution for ED... up scaling on the display is a bit of a joke really as it does not entirely mitigate object level of detail concerns. Unless there is a sufficient number of pixels to make an object distinctive all that would be produced is a higher resolution blob. Where upscaling may be beneficial is in n/r view cases but in those particular instances all that would happen is effectively a softening of some of the harder edges.

Is 8K VR a practical option at this point? I doubt it, it is going to be a gimmick for the foreseeable future IMO. It is something to keep an eye on, but not worth investing in IMO. You would be better investing in HD resolution VR solutions like the VIVE or Rift IMO.

Watch the reviews. It’s far less of a gimmick than The Rift/Vive etc. and they’re already amazing.
I’m certain this one will be markedly better than any of the current generation products.
There have only been a small number of poor reviews, mostly by people who haven’t tried it and are just going by the specs. There are a number of high profile, trustworthy players who’ve got to try one out and even a battered, dropped and cracked one was better than the Oculus.

Most said that it ruined their oculus / Vive experience for them!

Mostly it alleviates the scuba mask effect and SDE is far better than the 2015 tech that went into the Rift. Oh, and god rays are far better controlled even on white logos on black background, apparently.

 

[Crank Larson]

The VIVE has a wheel on the side for adjusting the inter-pupil distance, not sure about how or if the occulus has a way to adjust this.

So, you've tried the Vive and not the Rift? For E: D, that may explain your opinion, I think. I sold my Vive as it doesn't do E: D justice (can't read the menu/HUD items). The Rift does not have this issue.

No point getting an 8k solution for ED... up scaling on the display is a bit of a joke really as it does not entirely mitigate object level of detail concerns. Unless there is a sufficient number of pixels to make an object distinctive all that would be produced is a higher resolution blob. Where upscaling may be beneficial is in n/r view cases but in those particular instances all that would happen is effectively a softening of some of the harder edges.

Is 8K VR a practical option at this point? I doubt it, it is going to be a gimmick for the foreseeable future IMO. It is something to keep an eye on, but not worth investing in IMO. You would be better investing in HD resolution VR solutions like the VIVE or Rift IMO.

Have you actually tried any of the higher resolution headsets?

 

[RidingTheFlow]

I don't need to watch review since I had the actual thing (and will do same with 8K when it ever becomes feasible - for now its just speculation).

Funny you sound like my mates who can't beleive I found CV1 "blurry". Insisted I had "wrong specs", then "wrong settings". One actually ended coming over, checked it personally and ended trying to convince me "I don't think its actually looks *that* blurry, its not *that* bad, DK was *more* blurry". Unfortunately he wasn't a big ED player so we didn't do blind test trying to recognise what direction ships face
Unfortunately when I see something blurry, ridden with chromatic aberration and inter-lens-reflections I would tell exactly how I see it

I understand the desire to play it now - so if you are ok with somewhat inferior image quality. Myself, I am extremely fussy about picture quality (being person with graphics work background) - so no go for me, not until it advances enough.

 

[Zed]

My biggest problem with VR is how fast the time passes when I'm using it.
As for picture quality. I grew up with a ZX81 and then a ZX spectrum on a CRT TV, I could see the individual RGB colour dots on that far more than I can on the Rift CV1 so while it's not perfect, I don't have any problem with it.

 

[shreddog]

Well, this thread inspired me. Just fired up my Vive after it collecting dust for many months.
First impressions again wow, awesome. Wow the scale is immense. Holy moly the Python bridge is fantastic! And this place I had landed on was much grander than I had anticipated. Let's take the SRV for a ride around the ship. Weee.

15 min later after a slow careful drive.. Ughhhh Get this thing off my head I'm gonna be sick! [blah]

Yep, now I remember why I shelved it.

Note: This has little to do with the SRV. I get this in other games to. Even slow paced 'The Gallery' makes me queasy after a short while.

 

[Hadarmil]

Tried flying the Annie and in VR it's a really bad explorer - why am I exploring if I can't see the view?!? The AspX may not have the most internals or the best jump range but ho boy is it amazing seeing the milky way spread around you everywhere.

 

[JetsonRING]

When decent, stable, 4K VR is available at a decent price I will consider it but until then, a 4K monitor. o7

 

[jankster]

i play with a vive had it since they came out also have a very good pc with a 34 inch acer predator ultra wide 100hz gsync monitor i
could never play elite on a monitor you just dont get that feel of being in your ship

 

[Dibiase]

Been pointed out many times that you need an extremely good rig to run VR. People complain about clarity or reading text, I wouldn't run VR on anything that couldn't handle Ultra with 2x SS, have absolutely no issues with clarity. The game looks stunning in VR if you have beast rig. Still it's more about immersion/depth and 1:1 scale, just no comparison between a monitor/headtracking and VR. This is coming from someone that still has a triple screen 4K setup with TRackIR gathering dust

I second this point. I started playing ED at the beginning of this year. I played for 4 months on a triple monitor setup with Track IR and I thought it was awesome. Then the Rift summer sale hit and I picked up the rift bundle for $400. I was blown away when I logged in to ED in VR. I won't say it's as clear as my monitors, and I do notice the SDE if I look for it. (noticed it more at first, don't really see it anymore) But I'm running it on a 1080 Ti with the settings dialed in an I don't have any problems ready text or any of the panels in the ship. I did get a little motion sickness the first time I drove the SRV but now that I'm used to VR I don't even get a hint of it no matter how crazy I drive the SRV. I haven't played ED on my monitors even once since I got the Rift. It was well worth the $400 to me. If it wasn't for VR I don't think I would still be playing ED. For me it is the difference between playing a game or going to space. With my Rift, HOTAS, and buttkicker it is an amazing immersive experience.

 

[Space Dandy]

Well, this thread inspired me. Just fired up my Vive after it collecting dust for many months.
First impressions again wow, awesome. Wow the scale is immense. Holy moly the Python bridge is fantastic! And this place I had landed on was much grander than I had anticipated. Let's take the SRV for a ride around the ship. Weee.

15 min later after a slow careful drive.. Ughhhh Get this thing off my head I'm gonna be sick! [blah]

Yep, now I remember why I shelved it.

Note: This has little to do with the SRV. I get this in other games to. Even slow paced 'The Gallery' makes me queasy after a short while.

Some people are more prone to VR sickness just like sea sickness. That said there's a few things that can help like:

~ eat ginger beforehand
~ have a fan blowing cool air on you
~ try using a reliefband

 

[Ziljan]

I still have my DK2, I used to play Elite Exclusively in VR but as amazing VR is to use it's also a chore to set up every time and if you're trading/exploring anything where you need to type it's a pain. For general play and combat it's absolutely fantastic due to the scale of the game in VR.

I play mostly on the Monitor now, the game is awesomely sharp in 4k even if you do not get the special perception, and it's nice to lounge on the sofa and play too.

Why is typing a pain? I've heard this from VR users before, but unless you need to look to know what buttons you're hitting, I don't see why it would be a problem. I never look down to type when using a monitor. Everything is by feel. But maybe there's some other issue with VR typing? Please explain.

 

[Alec Turner]

Well, this thread inspired me. Just fired up my Vive after it collecting dust for many months.
First impressions again wow, awesome. Wow the scale is immense. Holy moly the Python bridge is fantastic! And this place I had landed on was much grander than I had anticipated. Let's take the SRV for a ride around the ship. Weee.

15 min later after a slow careful drive.. Ughhhh Get this thing off my head I'm gonna be sick! [blah]

Yep, now I remember why I shelved it.

Note: This has little to do with the SRV. I get this in other games to. Even slow paced 'The Gallery' makes me queasy after a short while.

I used to feel really REALLY sick in the SRV but you really can acclimatise to it over time. Just do a little bit of gentle SRV driving every day (stop if you start to feel sick) and in a week you'll be feeling much better. Also, another vote for a small fan blowing cool air on your face.

 

[TheoJones]

My monitor setup is an LG 34" Curved UWQHD, driven by a clocked GTX980 - and for VR I use a CV1 Rift.

I got the curved monitor as an upgrade with the GPU as I got my rig ready for E.. loved every second of it; and by the time my oculus arrived, I wasn't sure that I would even make much use of it..

Couldn't have been more wrong. as others have said, it's the difference between playing a game where you control a spaceship, and actually sitting in one. When I switched to VR + HOTAS, it just transformed the game. flying around planets to find the solar limb just for the hell of it. VR is glorious.

Yes, there are issues with lower resolution, and sharpness of lines. But those are just not that important for the complete joy of being *in* a spaceship. the degree of immersion can be quit jarring. it's a common thing to look down at your own hands, and get startled when one of them moves (the little handflex the avatar does...). Because you so quickly adapt to those being your legs and your hands.

I was forced to go without my CV1 due to a fault that needed a warranty swap-out. I think I played E twice in that time. it just felt pointless.

As for it being a different game - I think it is a subtle edge, but yes - UI issues in monitor play don't bother you as much, because you never lose track of the fact it's a game. They are more jarring in VR because you do lose the 'only a game' feeling.

Personally, I'd buy it again, no hesitation, even if a new Oculus was due out in the new year (I don't believe that's the case, just making an example) - because the price is worth the play time between now and then.

The next generation of this stuff will be mind blowing. I'm just accepting that means staying on the PC hardware upgrade ladder for a bit. worth every penny.