(Gameplay) Search and Rescue: FD. What are you even try to do with it? What is a point?

[Ozric]

I'm loving the new CG pointing people to Search and Rescue gameplay, especially around the large ships and structures. I had some really great encounters last night both with players and Thargoids. I find it strange how the number 1 complaint about most things is "it doesn't pay enough". If all you care about is credits, then go do something that pays out a lot of credits. Not everything should do, in my opinion. Search and Rescue isn't about making credits, it's morally the opposite. And I think it being woven into the narrative of 2.4 is a very good thing.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbtLirEiJ6o

Every player with a white knight syndrom say these words from time to time. "I don't grind anything, if you grind, that is your problem". But you only lie to yourself.

What's the opposite of White Knight syndrome? For those players who keep playing a game that they don't like, while refusing to believe that other people can like it?

So here we are, and alot of us think that 2.4 is SEVERELY lacking.

And yet there are a lot of us that don't think it is, given how soon after launch it is, but (and here's the thing) the complainers repeatedly refuse to accept that anyone could think that.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You think the devs aren't worried about their recent performance affecting future sales? I strongly disagree.

Well, considering there is nothing new about the non-stop chronic complaining here, sales have consistently been excellent and FD is financially doing very well, I dont think what you base your disagreement on. Honestly, the whole "listen to me or else you're all doomed!!!' thing got stale years ago. Heck, even the steam charts (yuck) show no discernible drop between when it arrived on steam and now (first month april 2015 at 9139, october 2017th at 9981)). It seems that FD is able to replace leaving players with new ones at pretty much a 1:1 ratio on pc, while adding new platforms and new players.

 

[Falcon_D]

Well, considering there is nothing new about the non-stop chronic complaining here, sales have consistently been excellent and FD is financially doing very well, I dont think what you base your disagreement on. Honestly, the whole "listen to me or else you're all doomed!!!' thing got stale years ago. Heck, even the steam charts (yuck) show no discernible drop between when it arrived on steam and now (first month april 2015 at 9139, october 2017th at 9981)). It seems that FD is able to replace leaving players with new ones at pretty much a 1:1 ratio on pc, while adding new platforms and new players.

In a business sense, replacing players with new ones in a 1:1 ratio is not really a good thing.
New platforms give new players but then the growth plateaus (maybe).
I believe the big money making thing for FD now is more Planet Coaster than it is ED. And quiet possibly the new Jurassic World might beat even Planet Coaster. I’m actually happy seeing FDev make money, now. Read some reviews on Glassdoor, some time ago, about FDev from previous employees, that were not quite flattering. Most of their complaints centered around FDev finances.
Maybe ED is a loved pet project in FDev. Maybe it’s the core project. Only FDev management knows.
I love flying my Python. And as long as the servers are on, I will fly it. FDev have given my Python something to do. These S&R turn ins are for when I decided to rescue pods while flying my Python.
Wouldn’t mind if some of the stuff in game got more fleshed out though. E.g. Thargoids, exploration, missions.

 

[krylite]

What a harsh criticism this thread topic is. The S&R was never announced as a major feature of horizons. There have been plenty of threads and posts in the past where players wanted to roleplay something else to do than just selling escape pods on the market and the assumption they were all sold to slavery. And somewhere in FDev they read these posts and someone thought to do something about it in appreciation. But no, OP just tries to pretend those threads and posts never existed and that the new S&R feature came out bungled out of nowhere. Perhaps it was a dev who loves the game , but knowing there was no official support or goal, spent extra weekends to implement this option in appreciation of the fans in hopes in the future it could lead to more during Beyond or after. Geez, it's not that hard to see the glass as half-full and appreciate the gesture. I, among others, enjoy it so now there are some words where lost personal goods are returned to their owners or hapless people in escape pods are restored to their lives instead of to slavery or death.

 

[Ozric]

More multicrew features that tons of people were hyped for but hardly anyone uses.

Got any source for that?

 

[babelfisch]

Yes, if you ask 1000 people you will get a bunch of different answers. I don't think it's a 1-to-1 correlation - one completely different answer for each person. And I think there is a lot of overlap. And yes, they will never fully please everyone. But there are things they could do that I'm willing to bet 975+ of the thousand people would all appreciate.
- Stop introducing KNOWN bugs into live code.
- Stop taking 6 months to a year to fix these bugs.
- Stop reintroducing old bugs.
- Hire a game design specialist. I think the guys they have are good on the technical side of things, but when it comes to fun and engaging gameplay loops and systems, balance, narrative pacing, etc they are one of the worst I've ever seen in modern games.
- Stop releasing half-finished features. If you're gonna make multi-crew, then make multicrew with ALL of the roles you envisioned. And if for some reason you can't do that yet, don't waste ludicrous amounts of dev time on it, because the cost-benefit ratio is terrible. There are other areas of the game that DESPERATELY need attention, and they're focusing on things with laughable cost-benefit ratios that aren't used by a large percentage of the playerbase because of how "hollow" they are.
- Reign in the project manager's expectations. If you take double the dev time expected AND deliver far less than you wanted, that's a serious problem. Set realistic expectations, and build in time for feedback and bug-fixes. Stop moving on to your next bug-riddled feature when your last one still hasn't had the bugs fixed.

I could go on and on here, but you get the point. You're right that if I was saying "Add player-owned capital ships now or I'm boycotting the game!!1!" that would be silly, and they can't be expected to cater to everyone's individual specific feature list. But that's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking that they deliver what they say they are gonna deliver. I'm asking that things generally work as intended. I'm asking for bugs to be kept to a reasonable level. I'm asking for fully fleshed out features. If I'm not using multicrew because it's not fleshed out enough, and I'm not looking for cool stuff on planets because the tools aren't there to find them in a reasonable way, then adding another half-baked feature isn't improving the game at all. The next half-fleshed-out feature is gonna go directly onto my ever-growing pile of "crap I'm never gonna use until they finish it (if they ever do)".

I can mostly agree with that

Got any source for that?

Not sure how many people use it but multicrew definitely sucks.

 

[Vasious]

Even just adding much more money for every item "search and rescue line" could just fix this mess a bit. If you whould care..

But whould you?

How much more money whould, whould, whould, whould, stratify the great infallible Insane4un?

This enough or does it need to be missions of CR per item?

And what do you mean "What the "GOAL" they are even talking about?! THERE IS NO GOAL AT ALL."

Do you think the goal of Search and rescue is rescuing people in the Escape pods, recovery of the Black boxes, rescue of hostages, and the returning of personal effect from those lost to their next of kind.

 

[Insane4un]

How much more money whould, whould, whould, whould, stratify the great infallible Insane4un?

https://s1.postimg.org/610sbmkxzj/Screenshot_1640.png

This enough or does it need to be missions of CR per item?

And what do you mean "What the "GOAL" they are even talking about?! THERE IS NO GOAL AT ALL."

Do you think the goal of Search and rescue is rescuing people in the Escape pods, recovery of the Black boxes, rescue of hostages, and the returning of personal effect from those lost to their next of kind.

By " what the GOAL they are ever talking about?" i mean what is actual gameplay mechanic is after all of this?

Turns out this is all a placeholder untill some CG begin. We have now CG, and even payouts is a bit more than before. So for now we can safely say, that this whole S&R thing is just a placeholder for CG. Or just a menu for CG. Like scientific stuff we had before.

So about prices.

Black box - 100k per one item. It is a rare thing in gameplay. And common sense remind to us that this is a viable thing in days of war.. Such thing can help to mitigate casualties in future. Should be a main item that will give you a mission with destination.

Occupied escape pod 60k per item. It is not that rare, but still not very common. Also it is a human being.

Damaged escape pod 150k per item. It is a very rare item. Escape pod that is in a very bad shape, but yet somehow functional.

Personal effects - should be a main item for getting mission. 10k per item.

Wreckage components - should be a main item for getting mission.

Hostage.. have you ever see one outside the mission? Me nether.

 

[EvE4evah]

Yes, if you ask 1000 people you will get a bunch of different answers. I don't think it's a 1-to-1 correlation - one completely different answer for each person. And I think there is a lot of overlap. And yes, they will never fully please everyone. But there are things they could do that I'm willing to bet 975+ of the thousand people would all appreciate.
- Stop introducing KNOWN bugs into live code.
- Stop taking 6 months to a year to fix these bugs.
- Stop reintroducing old bugs.
- Hire a game design specialist. I think the guys they have are good on the technical side of things, but when it comes to fun and engaging gameplay loops and systems, balance, narrative pacing, etc they are one of the worst I've ever seen in modern games.
- Stop releasing half-finished features. If you're gonna make multi-crew, then make multicrew with ALL of the roles you envisioned. And if for some reason you can't do that yet, don't waste ludicrous amounts of dev time on it, because the cost-benefit ratio is terrible. There are other areas of the game that DESPERATELY need attention, and they're focusing on things with laughable cost-benefit ratios that aren't used by a large percentage of the playerbase because of how "hollow" they are.
- Reign in the project manager's expectations. If you take double the dev time expected AND deliver far less than you wanted, that's a serious problem. Set realistic expectations, and build in time for feedback and bug-fixes. Stop moving on to your next bug-riddled feature when your last one still hasn't had the bugs fixed.

I could go on and on here, but you get the point. You're right that if I was saying "Add player-owned capital ships now or I'm boycotting the game!!1!" that would be silly, and they can't be expected to cater to everyone's individual specific feature list. But that's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking that they deliver what they say they are gonna deliver. I'm asking that things generally work as intended. I'm asking for bugs to be kept to a reasonable level. I'm asking for fully fleshed out features. If I'm not using multicrew because it's not fleshed out enough, and I'm not looking for cool stuff on planets because the tools aren't there to find them in a reasonable way, then adding another half-baked feature isn't improving the game at all. The next half-fleshed-out feature is gonna go directly onto my ever-growing pile of "crap I'm never gonna use until they finish it (if they ever do)".

Awesome comment.

 

[sb413197]

I don't really get why it's a separate screen, unless they intend to make a search and rescue rank.

I enjoyed the current CG with it though. Search and rescue is fun.

 

[Xae]

Saw this the other week and placed it in the "ignore" pile along with CQC and Power Play.

I mean, at least spice it up so that we have to rescue from the middle of CZs. Declare a side and rescue people while dodging fire.

The problem is they're trying to compete on a checklist basis with a game that is promising the world (SC).

They need to be focusing on creating better and more in depth features than just adding "me too" features.

We have enough "me too" features that were shoved out the door as a 'minimum viable product' and then abandoned a patch later. Frontier doesn't need to keep adding to the list.

 

[Pumabear8]

Got any source for that?

Multi-crew is largely a failure, which is why players have been requesting NPC crew, the main problem I see with it, is the P2P, I have two accounts, I use my second account to fill an empty seat, that's when problems are notable, delays in the second account catching up is most certainly one of them, I can be in a station and on the pad while the second account is still playing catch up flying through the slot.

And of course multi-crew is totally useless to solo players, hence one of the reasons a request is made for NPC crew.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So this is just another complain thread going offtopic from original OP?

Color me surprised.

What a waste of time.

 

[Valorin]

Uhm. I just multicrew and have fun.
And I also just salvage stuff and rescue people and also have fun.
If there is more to that at some point I'll do that and have fun.

 

[Ozric]

By " what the GOAL they are ever talking about?" i mean what is actual gameplay mechanic is after all of this?

Turns out this is all a placeholder untill some CG begin. We have now CG, and even payouts is a bit more than before. So for now we can safely say, that this whole S&R thing is just a placeholder for CG. Or just a menu for CG. Like scientific stuff we had before.

So about prices.

Once again, as you've failed to acknowledge, S&R was initially put into the game after the community repeatedly asked for it to be added. The gameplay mechanic is that you can now actually do something when you find these things rather than just selling them on the black market as illegal salvage. You can safely say what you want, but don't pretend to talk for everyone because if you had of listened to others, or even done some basic research you would have realised why this was added when it was first put in.

And about the prices... Who do you think is financing this operation, are they doing it for profit? No, as I said before, Search and Rescue isn't about making credits, it's morally the opposite.

Are you ACTUALLY trying to imply that there aren't a huge number of players so disappointed with multicrew that they don't really use it? REALLY?!? Yes, there are quite a number of people who use it. There are QUITE a few who would have liked to use it, but find the way it was implemented not really worth it. And of course there were some who never cared about it in the first place. I think even FDEV themselves have kind of admitted it wasn't as good as they would have liked. They had another role planned but "couldn't find a way to make it compelling" so they left it out. That alone tells you they wanted more from it. Come on man...

What I am actually (not trying) to imply is that once again you are making spurious claims about inside and in depth information and numbers you have on the game, that you clearly have plucked out of thin air. If you can find somewhere that shows that the numbers

hardly anyone uses.

Then show them to us, cause I'd be interested to see them.

Oh hang on, you've just contradicted yourself, quelle surprise.

Multi-crew is largely a failure, which is why players have been requesting NPC crew, the main problem I see with it, is the P2P, I have two accounts, I use my second account to fill an empty seat, that's when problems are notable, delays in the second account catching up is most certainly one of them, I can be in a station and on the pad while the second account is still playing catch up flying through the slot.

And of course multi-crew is totally useless to solo players, hence one of the reasons a request is made for NPC crew.

Actually people have been requesting NPC multi-crew since the feature was first announced. It is not a byproduct of it being a "failure", but I certainly hope it gets added through Beyond where I'm hoping NPC interactions will get some love.

 

[Leo Sagan]

Worst possible way to implement "salvaging" in elite to day.

This is one way to look at it.

As for me I prefer seeing it as a tiny step in the right direction. At least, this demonstrates that there are a lot of non-combat areas that can be worked on, especially since the S&R CG was a decent success. I whine often enough about the lack of non combat love in the different updates, it seems only fair to show some support when an effort is made. Even if, I agree, this is far from perfect right now.

Thumbs up on this one FD.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

i see it more as another ... feature.

5 pages for me, and yet no FDEV response about what this page is for.
to bad that the thursday livestream had about as much content

Dav could have at least said "this affects the BGS", so its invisible for 99% of the playerbase

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Are you ACTUALLY trying to imply that there aren't a huge number of players so disappointed with multicrew that they don't really use it? REALLY?!? Yes, there are quite a number of people who use it. There are QUITE a few who would have liked to use it, but find the way it was implemented not really worth it. And of course there were some who never cared about it in the first place. I think even FDEV themselves have kind of admitted it wasn't as good as they would have liked. They had another role planned but "couldn't find a way to make it compelling" so they left it out. That alone tells you they wanted more from it. Come on man...

Using arguments like 'but people are not using it/are using it' is never good arguments for game's criticism to begin with. If you think that's the way to force FD hand, thing again many times players have done this argument.

In the end FD is business and they have all stats, all data about what we do in game. And they can clearly make those decisions without 'OMG NO ONE PLAYS MC BECAUSE I COULDN'T FIND SHIP ohhh right most likely because everybody does it with friends'.

But yeah, MC didn't turn out way FD wanted it to be, turned out it was way more work than they expected/wanted to - and as for full multicrew they need space legs anyway - it is understandable.

But telling MC is utter failure is a bit much. People crew up quite a lot. My personal desire is for them to figure out navigator when they do revamp of system map so it can be actually role to play around with.

i see it more as another ... feature.

5 pages for me, and yet no FDEV response about what this page is for.
to bad that the thursday livestream had about as much content

Dav could have at least said "this affects the BGS", so its invisible for 99% of the playerbase

Contact is for handing in search and rescue items you have found in your travels. Before that it was black market. Now there's legit way to do that.

If it will go somewhere it will be up to FD to decide how they extend that gameplay. Devs have responded to some of those discussions during launch of 2.4 and they seem to have lot of good ideas. But again time and money.

 

[phong]

Works for me.

 

[Goose4291]

Worst possible way to implement "salvaging" in elite to day.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net...ru/i/311017/d7GkYyuj.png?width=485&height=454

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net...ru/i/311017/JOfsnN80.png?width=505&height=455

What the "GOAL" they are even talking about?! THERE IS NO GOAL AT ALL.

Seriously.. how this even managed to get out from design room?

How is it in game.. and why did you call this a new mechanic?

This thing.. poorly.. if even designed at all.. It HURTS to even look at it!

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-11-2016/V6ipdM.gif

Even just adding much more money for every item "search and rescue line" could just fix this mess a bit. If you whould care..

But whould you?

My understanding is that it was done to sate the RPers who had 'ethical' issues with selling escape pods on the blackmarket