(Gameplay) Search and Rescue: FD. What are you even try to do with it? What is a point?

[-VR- Max Factor]

You're asking for proof of his opinion. How do you prove an opinion?!? Impossible. Literally by definition.

He's saying what he thinks about what they did with S&R in 2.4. There are a number of us in total agreement with him. That's about as close as you can get to "proving" an opinion.
As for what 2.3 has to do with 2.4 - it's showing a pattern. 2.3 had alot of people VERY disappointed in how underdeveloped it was. 2.4 has alot of people thinking the same. Again, this is opinion, there is no "proving" it, so don't even ask. But we don't really NEED to prove it. There is some very good supporting evidence to back up our opinions. (Notice I didn't say FACTS, I said EVIDENCE) I think I can say with a high amount of confidence that FDEV understands our point. They probably even agree with most of it. I'd find it a bit hard to believe that they are happy with S&R as it is. If they ACTUALLY think that what they just did to "improve" S&R brings it up to par...

You really need to just take a deep breath, step back for a minute and realize that just because you love the game and don't have a big problem with how S&R is right now, doesn't mean that we are "wrong". Let us post our viewpoints, you post your opposing viewpoint, and try not to make it a personal competition. You probably don't care what our opinions are. I don't really care what yours are either. But I'm pretty sure FDEV cares what all of us think about their game.

He is stating an opinion as fact. That is just wrong, especially when it is completely unsubstantiated. what is the point of on an opinion which sounds like a lie.

I was not replying to him about the S&R mechanic, which I agree with all of you about, if you bothered to read my posts. It's what he said about 2.4 as a whole that I have questioned. And as soon as I question it, I am labelled a white knight. That is what I take exception at. And the only part of 2.4 which was under developed was the multi crew. The rest was superb in my opinion.

Well, i am was waiting for so called "Thargoid narrative content" (damn, it is even sounds same..) which is 2.4 is all about.. Right? Right?

And 7 weeks later.. I just realise that these CGs was stoped at this moment, just because someone has messed up MONTHS with WEEKS and we get most of 2.4 content in these amazing, so much awesome, so exciting 4 CGs in 4 weeks, and not in 4 MONTHS as was planned.

2.4 Done.

Hope - done.

Faith - done.

This is what I was replying to. It has nothing to do with the S&R feature. He is pushing this as a fact which is utter rubbish.

 

[babelfisch]

You're asking for proof of his opinion. How do you prove an opinion?!? Impossible. Literally by definition.

He's saying what he thinks about what they did with S&R in 2.4. There are a number of us in total agreement with him. That's about as close as you can get to "proving" an opinion.
As for what 2.3 has to do with 2.4 - it's showing a pattern. 2.3 had alot of people VERY disappointed in how underdeveloped it was. 2.4 has alot of people thinking the same. Again, this is opinion, there is no "proving" it, so don't even ask. But we don't really NEED to prove it. There is some very good supporting evidence to back up our opinions. (Notice I didn't say FACTS, I said EVIDENCE) I think I can say with a high amount of confidence that FDEV understands our point. They probably even agree with most of it. I'd find it a bit hard to believe that they are happy with S&R as it is. If they ACTUALLY think that what they just did to "improve" S&R brings it up to par...

You really need to just take a deep breath, step back for a minute and realize that just because you love the game and don't have a big problem with how S&R is right now, doesn't mean that we are "wrong". Let us post our viewpoints, you post your opposing viewpoint, and try not to make it a personal competition. You probably don't care what our opinions are. I don't really care what yours are either. But I'm pretty sure FDEV cares what all of us think about their game.

I think even Max realises that the S&R mechanics need improvement, he doesn't ask for proof on that...

But take a look at this post...

Well, i am was waiting for so called "Thargoid narrative content" (damn, it is even sounds same..) which is 2.4 is all about.. Right? Right?

And 7 weeks later.. I just realise that these CGs was stoped at this moment, just because someone has messed up MONTHS with WEEKS and we get most of 2.4 content in these amazing, so much awesome, so exciting 4 CGs in 4 weeks, and not in 4 MONTHS as was planned.

2.4 Done.

Hope - done.

Faith - done.

Now, it's not like he doesn't have a point, and I am sure we could argue a lot about it in one of the 2.4 threads. But this is about S&R and yet it turned into the usual mindless FDEV bashing at page 4 or 5, although everyone agreed with the original point. It's just impossible to have a constructive discussion in such an environment. If people don't want others to behave like white knights they should stop showing their ignorance and stop posting lies. It's as simple as that.

 

[Cervantes01]

The worst part about this for me is that if they see this as "improving" search and rescue or salvage, then what does that mean when they say they are gonna "improve" exploration next year? If "improving" the generic bland missions means taking those same missions and randomly smooshing 2 or 3 of them together into mission chains, what does that say about the level of thought and effort they are gonna put into the trading tools that will be added? When you see how basic and uninteresting multicrew turned out to be and how many great opportunities were missed there, what are we supposed to think about how in-depth and fleshed out Squadrons are gonna be? When they say they're committed to being much more communicative after the Expo but have been as silent and cryptic as ever, how are we supposed to believe anything they say?

It seems to me that we need new blood in the design team, and when I say new blood I mean game devs with the freedom to implement their fresh ideas, not marketing types who will break the game into chunks to be sold in the online store.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think even Max realises that the S&R mechanics need improvement, he doesn't ask for proof on that...

But take a look at this post...


Now, it's not like he doesn't have a point, and I am sure we could argue a lot about it in one of the 2.4 threads. But this is about S&R and yet it turned into the usual mindless FDEV bashing at page 4 or 5, although everyone agreed with the original point. It's just impossible to have a constructive discussion in such an environment. If people don't want others to behave like white knights they should stop showing their ignorance and stop posting lies. It's as simple as that.

+1 Virtual rep as I need to spread it around. Thanks. This is exactly what I am talking about.

 

[babelfisch]

Oh mate, come on now. Exaggeration and hyperbole is present on both sides. I could say the same about the "white knight" side. Here we are trying to explain why we think that feature X was implemented in a terrible way, and without fail here come the FDEV apologists to deflect attention away from the problems being discussed and tell us to just go do something else in the game instead of complaining.

I read the entire thread and what you say isn't true at all. In fact everyone (even the so called fanboys) agreed with the criticism until it went completely nuts.

 

[Canoe]

I wish mission chains were logical like this. The way they are seemingly randomly tied together right now takes me out of the immersion more than ever. Mission chains as they are right now are actually a net negative IMO.

"Oh you've just shipped 90 tons of beer for us? You're in a Type-7 with no weapons? Great! Go kill this pirate for us..." The lack of any coherent reasoning in chained missions is deeply obvious.. :/

 

[babelfisch]

"Oh you've just shipped 90 tons of beer for us? You're in a Type-7 with no weapons? Great! Go kill this pirate for us..." The lack of any coherent reasoning in chained missions is deeply obvious.. :/

I agree, it's one of the many areas that are completely nonsensical.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

AFAIK the Search & Rescue Contact (for now) just serves as a replacement for the old, bizarre need to sell humans into a Commodity Market or Smuggle remains of lost Ships into a Black Market.
Which is good, since now at least it makes sense. Just a tiny Detail but it was needed.

Obviously, the Gameplay currently still stops right where it should start, but that's a very old ED problem. All mechanics - but more often than not no Gameplay.

I guess sometime next year we might (or may not) see that getting fleshed out and expanded.
But for that to happen, Development needs to pick up steam again and leave the current "Maintenance mode".

Plus, they'd need to hire a Game Designer for the Gameplay content, alternatively an existing one who implements many of the excellent Forum suggestions.
Like a DDF 3.0... but this time a DDF that actually gets implemented, step by step.

PS.
I've suggested Pages worth of Gameplay ideas just revolving around Occupied Escape Pods alone, many others did the same. Forum is full of very good ideas.
Right now, on supplied SAR Items I'd at least wish they'd appreciate the distance the items were picked up from. I expect far better payment if I deliver items I hauled back to civilization over i.e. 20000LY or more.
Otherwise... who'd bother to pick up Tonnage bogging down Jumprange and which cause random NPC Scans to now trigger on Cargo held in the bay? One day it could even trigger Thargoid interest for all I know.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

He doesn't need to convince you at all. He needs to convince FDEV. Because that's who is making the game, and they are the only people who can make the changes he's hoping to see. Convincing you accomplishes NOTHING.

I'm about to blow your mind here. Most of the messages on these forums are not directed at you personally.

So the fact that he replied to me specifically means that it is not directed at me, but at FDev. Jog on fella. You are talking as much rubbish as insane4fun. Of course he is trying to convince me. There is no point in trying to convince FDev that 2.4 is finished and someone messed up, as I am pretty sure they know exactly what is going on.

Sorry, but at the moment you talking as much rubbish a insane4fun.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well in that case, the fact that the CG's weren't focused on the Thargoid "narrative" for at least a week or two *IS* fact. I haven't touched the game in weeks now, but I do still keep up with the newsletter. I know for a fact that there was a CG out in Colonia that had FA to do with Thargoids, INRA, Aegis, or anything else even remotely related.

I am not denying that, and I never did.

Yes I know he said "2.4 Done." and the devs are clearly saying there is more to come. I think you are taking what's he's saying a little too literally.

How should I look at it then. It is just out and out lying then if it isn't to be taken litereally. Considering insane4fun's post history, I pretty much believe that he thinks exactly that.

But again, just because I didn't believe him on that subject, does that make me a white knight? Sounds like to me that if i dont bend over for him, i'm a white knight.

 

[Coccolino]

Some of you didn't get yet what the business is about in ED: having a nice ship.
You grind for the rank.
You grind for the ship.
You grind for the engineers.
And... you finally pay for aesthetics add-ons. How much development has been spent on aesthetics mods, the online store, bobbleheads, and so on, while we sit here watching how bugs stille mine the gameplay? That's what they are into.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Some of you didn't get yet what the business is about in ED: having a nice ship.
You grind for the rank.
You grind for the ship.
You grind for the engineers.
And... you finally pay for aesthetics add-ons. How much development has been spent on aesthetics mods, the online store, bobbleheads, and so on, while we sit here watching how bugs stille mine the gameplay? That's what they are into.

That's an opinion. I don't grind for anything. I just do stuff I enjoy and the credits/rank/engineering stuff come in as I do my stuff.

 

[Insane4un]

That's an opinion. I don't grind for anything. I just do stuff I enjoy and the credits/rank/engineering stuff come in as I do my stuff.

Every player with a white knight syndrom say these words from time to time. "I don't grind anything, if you grind, that is your problem". But you only lie to yourself. Anyone else is well know that this is a pure . The grind is the most of core gameplay Elite have.

As i say.. I used to be a white knight just like you. And i use same "argument" as you. " i don't grind" "it is not problem of Elite that you grind it bla bla". I know all of this. I was you - once.

Just you wait for your burnout moment.

However, if you smh will not get this moment. I can be only really really happy for you. It whould be really nice to be you, and don't see how terrible things are trully are.

The only reason why this thread is still exist is - ZERO REACTION FROM FD. That is just a proof for how much they care about their own game state.

Believe me, i have same passion for this game, just like you. The problem is.. i ve seen some sheeet in these 3 years..

And the core of a problem is that i STILL see SAME sheeet after 3 years. I don't see any passion from FD game design team, QA team and others who work on code or network.

The only passion that i can see from FD is a sound design team and visual design team.

These guys are the reason for Elite sales.

These guys are the reason why me or anyone else play even now.

They did one of the best job i ever see. So yea, there is some good things in FD as well.

P.S By any chance do you have a VR? I tend to believe, that players of Elite VR simply play the different game, not the one i am playing. If it so, i really start to think that i need VR ASAP.

May be it is really effective way to reduce the pain from all of this mess..

 

[Troy_McClure]

Nothing to see here...

....'perfectly in keeping with the rest of the ED gameplay!

Move along please.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Every player with a white knight syndrom say these words from time to time. "I don't grind anything, if you grind, that is your problem". But you only lie to yourself. Anyone else is well know that this is a pure . The grind is the most of core gameplay Elite have.

If I find something boring (ie a grind) I do something else. If I don't fancy doing anything else I stop playing. Ergo there is very, very little time in the game where I consider doing something that's a grind.

Frankly if you're doing stuff you dont enjoy then more fool you. Go do something more enjoyable with your time. Go smell some flowers, anything but don't waste it doing something you don't like.

 

[Insane4un]

You dont have to believe him. Just ignore it. If you actually think he believes LITERALLY that 2.4 is over despite what the devs say, then just shake your head and move on.

I have no idea what his actual thoughts are, but I kinda took what he said more as a "Screw this, I don't even need to see the rest of it. I'm writing 2.4 off as a complete failure" sort of thing. And in THAT sense, I actually agree with him, 2.4 IS "done". Dead on arrival. Complete failure.

Here's the thing... 2.1 had serious issues. People complained, we were told to just wait, it was gonna get better. 2.2 had issues, same thing. 2.3 was a train wreck. "Oh but stop your complaining guys, because 2.4 is gonna be amazing!" And now 2.4 is pretty lackluster so far. But we're told to stop complaining because "there is still more to come". Like we're somehow supposed to constantly have this belief that even though what they've been delivering is crap, the next little bit will be different. Oh, it wasn't? Hmmm..well the NEXT thing after that will be different, and so on and so on. It's been like this for over 2 years.

So here we are, and alot of us think that 2.4 is SEVERELY lacking. And yet again the hand-wavium of "it's not over yet, just wait the good part is still coming" excuse is used YET AGAIN. So, how I personally feel is "Nope. You've run out of chances. I no longer accept blindly that things are imminently about to improve. I would like you to stop brushing off complaints and actually address the problem instead of trying to deflect attention to the future." And like I said, I don't know if the OP thinks the same as I do, but that's kind of how I interpreted what he was saying. Yes it's a bit of hyperbole, but it's born out of frustration and I can relate to it.

But instead of trying to see his point, you are focusing on it literally and we're getting bogged down in semantics, which then becomes frustrating for all involved. But maybe I'm wrong? Maybe he does mean exactly LITERALLY what he said. I dunno.

THIS.

 

[babelfisch]

Every player with a white knight syndrom say these words from time to time. "I don't grind anything, if you grind, that is your problem". But you only lie to yourself. Anyone else is well know that this is a pure . The grind is the most of core gameplay Elite have.

As i say.. I used to be a white knight just like you. And i use same "argument" as you. " i don't grind" "it is not problem of Elite that you grind it bla bla". I know all of this. I was you - once.

Just you wait for your burnout moment.

However, if you smh will not get this moment. I can be only really really happy for you. It whould be really nice to be you, and don't see how terrible things are trully are.

The only reason why this thread is still exist is - ZERO REACTION FROM FD. That is just a proof for how much they care about their own game state.

Believe me, i have same passion for this game, just like you. The problem is.. i ve seen some sheeet in these 3 years..

And the core of a problem is that i STILL see SAME sheeet after 3 years. I don't see any passion from FD game design team, QA team and others who work on code or network.

The only passion that i can see from FD is a sound design team and visual design team.

These guys are the reason for Elite sales.

These guys are the reason why me or anyone else play even now.

They did one of the best job i ever see. So yea, there is some good things in FD as well.

P.S By any chance do you have a VR? I tend to believe, that players of Elite VR simply play the different game, not the one i am playing. If it so, i really start to think that i need VR ASAP.

May be it is really effective way to reduce the pain from all of this mess..

Sorry, stopped at "everyone who calls others white knights simply isn't able to have a proper argument without insulting others"..

 

[Insane4un]

Sorry, stopped at "everyone who calls others white knights simply isn't able to have a proper argument without insulting others"..

Why is white knight is a insult for anyone? I was, once. What is wrong with this? I believe into best, and expect best, and i always has protected FD even if they messed up. But their lack of passion to their game is simply put thing in a right place.

They don't care. WHY SHOULD I?

But still.. smh i care. That is why this thread exist.

P.S Actually.. it may possible, but i highly doubt in it.. They could see this thread and put new CG just about S&R thing.

Coincidence? I really hope it is not.

 

[babelfisch]

Why is white knight is a insult for anyone? I was, once. What is wrong with this? I believe into best, and expect best, and i always has protected FD even if they messed up. But their lack of passion to their game is simply put thing in a right place.

They don't care. WHY SHOULD I?

But still.. smh i care. That is why this thread exist.

P.S Actually.. it may possible, but i highly doubt in it.. They could see this thread and put new CG just about S&R thing.

Coincidence? I really hope it is not.

The term is used to ridicule someone's view and it's also another way to say that someone will blindly defend anything someone else does, in other words an idiot. That's why it's an insult and also incorrect 99% of the times it is used.

 

[Jenner]

Why is white knight is a insult for anyone? I was, once. What is wrong with this? I believe into best, and expect best, and i always has protected FD even if they messed up. But their lack of passion to their game is simply put thing in a right place.

They don't care. WHY SHOULD I?

But still.. smh i care. That is why this thread exist.

P.S Actually.. it may possible, but i highly doubt in it.. They could see this thread and put new CG just about S&R thing.

Coincidence? I really hope it is not.

Lack of passion?
They don't 'care'?

I'm sorry, but what? Seriously. You think the devs who work on this game don't care about it? Just because the game isn't what you think it should be? These are the same people who show up day in and day out, often probably missing time with friends and family at crunch times, to work on a piece of entertainment *for you*.... and they 'don't care.'

Let's call a spade a spade: You don't like the game or its direction. That's fine. The forum is here for everyone to give feedback. To claim, however, that the developers don't care about it is disingenuous at best and legit mean at worst.

It's not what you're saying, it's *how* you're saying it.