Torpedoes and hitpoint inflation - is there a solution?! (a.k.a. Make torpedoes great again)

shadragon

shadragon
Snarfbuckle said:
The stats for torpedoes speaks for themselves and they really need a fat buff. They should be the equivalent of today's anti-ship cruise missiles.
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By that logic, they should take a huge weapon bay for one shot.

Each Tomahawk ACM is 1,600 Kg and 6.25 meters in length with half meter diameter.
 

CMDR GTR2014

CMDR GTR2014
shadragon said:
I seem to remember Ed's ship in the last livestream getting hit by one torp. Dropped his shields and reduced hull to 40% in one go. Lots of module damage as well.

Hardly insignificant. The look on his face says it all.

https://i.imgur.com/AG18rq8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Enx18YM.jpg
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And that's my point they only did external DMG again. plus this is reverb cascade. and against a Courrier that probably doesn't even have Hull reinforcements! BTW the courrier is one of the weakest hull in game ;)

shadragon said:
By that logic, they should take a huge weapon bay for one shot.

Each Tomahawk ACM is 1,600 Kg and 6.25 meters in length with half meter diameter.
Click to expand...

Well it was designed, shame they didn't put it in game...

Torpedo_MissileEvolution.jpg
 
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NecasekO

N
While I agree torpedoes need some sort of buff, straight damage increase is not the way to do it.

Consider that with 600 dmg per torpedo they would still be useless against big ships with 5000 MJ shields and 5000 HP hulls, but they would be devastating against 90% or more of average player ships. A single Cobra with 6 torpedoes could one-shot any stock ship. A FDL with 8 torpedoes and a huge weapon would kill any ship that is not top end combat vessel in a matter of seconds. Can you imagine how many ships would get killed entering or leaving stations, moving at 100 m/s?

So torpedoes would still not be used for high end PvP but would become a huge pain everywhere else. Which would be even worse than the current general uselessness of torpedoes (outside reverb special effect).
 

CMDR GTR2014

CMDR GTR2014
NecasekO said:
While I agree torpedoes need some sort of buff, straight damage increase is not the way to do it.

Consider that with 600 dmg per torpedo they would still be useless against big ships with 5000 MJ shields and 5000 HP hulls, but they would be devastating against 90% or more of average player ships. A single Cobra with 6 torpedoes could one-shot any stock ship. A FDL with 8 torpedoes and a huge weapon would kill any ship that is not top end combat vessel in a matter of seconds. Can you imagine how many ships would get killed entering or leaving stations, moving at 100 m/s?

So torpedoes would still not be used for high end PvP but would become a huge pain everywhere else. Which would be even worse than the current general uselessness of torpedoes (outside reverb special effect).
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Well since 2.3 any missile or torpedo is shot down by station... so this concept is inadequate ;)

BTW i just hit a Asp Scout PP and the damage was only external... it's clear that the torpedo are not penetrating for no reason.
 

Tadeus72

T
Well, I've got successfully Reverberated during the last CG in a station in High Sec twice during the same visit, while going down to the pad and while going up from the pad to the slot. So yeah, maybe it doesn't work in front of the station, but it surely works inside the station :)
 
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Bunkerkind Anni

Bunkerkind Anni
Tadeus72 said:
Well, I've got successfully Reverberated during the last CG in a station in High Sec twice during the same visit, while going down to the pad and while going up from the pad to the slot. So yeah, maybe it doesn't work in front of the station, but it surely works inside the station :)
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in 99% of the cases someone mentiones beeing hit by something that killed his IMBA shields in an instant, on the forums, it has NOT been a torpedo.
every topic followed this scheme:
- someone asked what was it that instagibbed his shields
- first responses: Reverb Torpedo, despite the described scenario did not fit
- 10 posts later, first one mentions Mine layer
- in some topics, YT-Footage is linked, including first person view from the attacker, confirming Reverb Mines
- topic continues talking about torpedos...

back2topic: are you sure you got hit by an Torpedo that has a minimum distance before it can even explode?
 

Tadeus72

T
Well. It might be the big "Incoming Torpedo" message that appeared both times and mislead me :p But, yeah, It might additionally also be mines. Not really seen much, there were a lot of players and NPCs around and my sensors were most of the time in the "landing pad" setting. Someone also got blown up by the station, but my logs only tell me "playing combat music", so yeah. No idea. Didn't get blown up in the end, so I don't even got the info about the attacker/attackers in contact history. Was fun, but kind of awkward, wished for a real combat log at least.
 

Bunkerkind Anni

Bunkerkind Anni
CMDR GTR2014 said:
Penetrator payload is somewhat bugged I've seen it do 0 dmg to internals. Ive seen do damage to only one module, ive seen him do multiple damage to modules. at this point i would say that penetrator is a very shady mod :)
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its probably as shady is high-yield.
my suspicion is still that what we see, is the projectile penetrating the hull to its designated penetration depth (hidden value, ~1/3 or target ship hight was the DEV quote somewhere i think) and then doing a small AoE explosion,
but ignoring any hit-bubbles it crossed on its way through.

that way, you can hit the powerplant of a dropship or conda with HY (or penetrator missiles) when you shoot the target ship head on, but you wont damage it if you try to hit it from the "exposed" (Dropship topside, conda underside)
I guess the penetrator torpedo works same way.

but the the bug report topic was long forgotten by Support and probably lingers somewhere in 2.3 bug report archive.

Tadeus72 said:
Well. It might be the big "Incoming Torpedo" message that appeared both times and mislead me :p But, yeah, It might additionally also be mines. Not really seen much, there were a lot of players and NPCs around and my sensors were most of the time in the "landing pad" setting. Someone also got blown up by the station, but my logs only tell me "playing combat music", so yeah. No idea. Didn't get blown up in the end, so I don't even got the info about the attacker/attackers in contact history. Was fun, but kind of awkward, wished for a real combat log at least.
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i said 99%... also there is a dedicated torpedo warning?
 

NecasekO

N
I wonder whether the torpedo warning is something new, I only remember generic missile warnings when I got attacked by torpedoes in the past.

Also one point for the OP, I believe it would be best to fix hitpoint inflation first, before adjusting torpedoes. The amount of hitpoints and resistances on engineered ships is just crazy and creates issues for all weapons.
 

Tadeus72

T
Nope. Thargoids have the "caustic missile warning" message. (well, and the "energy surge detected" warning). But it's possible that they've introduced the torpedo warning when they added the Thargoid-related warnings.
 
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Snarfbuckle

S
In all seriousness though.

I understand people do not want a too powerful weapon and big ships do not want to be easy bait for small ship wings.

That's fine.

So why not make it an internals killer? Like a seeker missile that simply do module damage and very little else.

- 50% reduced damage against shields
- 50% reduced damage against hull
- ALWAYS penetrate armour
- AOE effect on internals
- CANNOT target individual modules like PP or shields - It does random AOE module damage (A missile or torpedo today aim at 'a' target, it does not select a specific part like an antenna or left outer railing.)
 

Bunkerkind Anni

Bunkerkind Anni
Snarfbuckle said:
In all seriousness though.

I understand people do not want a too powerful weapon and big ships do not want to be easy bait for small ship wings.

That's fine.

So why not make it an internals killer? Like a seeker missile that simply do module damage and very little else.

- 50% reduced damage against shields
- 50% reduced damage against hull
- ALWAYS penetrate armour
- AOE effect on internals
- CANNOT target individual modules like PP or shields - It does random AOE module damage (A missile or torpedo today aim at 'a' target, it does not select a specific part like an antenna or left outer railing.)
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you may want to scroll back and see my first post.
thats what the current torpedo stats are for most things,
but with two issues:
1. AoE radius seems to be to small or not working correctly
2. engineered resists currently reduce explosive damage massively down to "nothing to bother" levels
 
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