Engineers, RND and the BGS

Am I the only one who like the RND factor with the Engineers and how it fits into the BGS?

Look at what happens: You decide to upgrade some component or weapon on your ship. You first have to do some task to get noticed by the Engineer then provide some service to gain admittance to him/her. Then you have to go out and find certain material to provide to the Engineer so they can do the modification. Remember, the Engineer doesn't charge you for any of this, they are doing it solely because you have gained their trust and provided the basic materials for them to manufacture the upgrade.

Now the materials. None of them you can buy, you have to find it. Some are either found via mining an asteroid or on a planet/moon. Some are man made items you have to pick up floating in space as debris. Data is from encounters with other ships and from datapoints. If you look at it logically, how do you know the polonium you just found is 100% pure. How long has that Chemical Distillery be in operation on the ship before it got blown up so you could salvage it, could it have been damaged in the explosion? That data you just received, how do you know it was 100% up-to-date and accurate or was it an slightly older version?

So factoring the unknown condition of the materials you supply to the Engineer, it stands to reason that there would be differing, not large, but not all the same either, end results. To have every modification come up with a set, predetermined result would actually discount how you found the materials and data required for the mod.

The only part I don't like is the 'Possible Experimental Effects', it should be retitled 'Possible Additional Enhancements' in my opinion. For example, applying a Efficient mod on your multi-cannon shouldn't suddenly result in a new ammunition type, it just doesn't make sense. These are things I would like to see taken out of the Engineer process but available as an additional cost (very expensive preferably) as a bonus depending on what level upgrade you get the engineer to apply. Think of it like this - you have gained the complete trust of the Engineer, you have provided him all the materials needed for him to do his task, both of you are happy with the end result, so he takes you aside and says 'Look, I have this new type of ammo, won't damage ships you haven't targeted. Since you have been a great customer, it's yours for 1m Credits, no questions asked'.

Anyway, I just think the RND factor fits in better within the BGS and how you found the materials.
 
Am I the only one who like the RND factor with the Engineers and how it fits into the BGS?

Yes.
You are The One, M00ka


Insofar as it is a treasure hunt, you're probably on to something as some sort of abstract representation of qualitative variation in the materials provided.
My own gripe is that it's a treasure hunt in the first place. Without that part I could deal with the randomness of result.
 
I am confused by what you mean when you say BGS. The BGS is about transactions that move factions. Which BGS determines the quality of materials?

How exactly does any of this fit in with the BGS? Or are you just RP'ing RNG?
 
I am confused by what you mean when you say BGS. The BGS is about transactions that move factions. Which BGS determines the quality of materials?

How exactly does any of this fit in with the BGS? Or are you just RP'ing RNG?

By the BGS, I am talking about the whole 'lone pilot with his ship' thing, someone making their own way in the galaxy. Basically boils down to ideal that if a player wants something he has to go and get it, nothing is provided for free or provided easily.
 
Am I the only one who like the RND factor with the Engineers and how it fits into the BGS?


No, you aren't! I think thy should leave Engineers exactly the way it is, with the exception of currently having way too little storage space for Materials and especially Data.

The rumours of this "every next roll improves things" is utter nonsense. They risk ruining the one truly random and interesting aspect of the game away from all the grindy balls.

I love rocking up and getting a half decent roll first time, or having to roll 15 times to get that G5 mod that's better than a G4. They implement the crybaby method, and you'll just have queues at the Workshops as players roll 100 times in a row for that maxed out jump range, until everyone has the same ship capability and starts complaining about balancing.
 
By the BGS, I am talking about the whole 'lone pilot with his ship' thing, someone making their own way in the galaxy. Basically boils down to ideal that if a player wants something he has to go and get it, nothing is provided for free or provided easily.
Nice sentiment and all, but you'll only confuse the rest of us who know the BGS as something completely different. We're easily confused like that.
 
By the BGS, I am talking about the whole 'lone pilot with his ship' thing, someone making their own way in the galaxy. Basically boils down to ideal that if a player wants something he has to go and get it, nothing is provided for free or provided easily.

BGS means background simulation. What you are talking about is just called sandbox gameplay.
 
Am I the only one who like the RND factor with the Engineers and how it fits into the BGS?

Look at what happens: You decide to upgrade some component or weapon on your ship. You first have to do some task to get noticed by the Engineer then provide some service to gain admittance to him/her. Then you have to go out and find certain material to provide to the Engineer so they can do the modification. Remember, the Engineer doesn't charge you for any of this, they are doing it solely because you have gained their trust and provided the basic materials for them to manufacture the upgrade.

Now the materials. None of them you can buy, you have to find it. Some are either found via mining an asteroid or on a planet/moon. Some are man made items you have to pick up floating in space as debris. Data is from encounters with other ships and from datapoints. If you look at it logically, how do you know the polonium you just found is 100% pure. How long has that Chemical Distillery be in operation on the ship before it got blown up so you could salvage it, could it have been damaged in the explosion? That data you just received, how do you know it was 100% up-to-date and accurate or was it an slightly older version?

So factoring the unknown condition of the materials you supply to the Engineer, it stands to reason that there would be differing, not large, but not all the same either, end results. To have every modification come up with a set, predetermined result would actually discount how you found the materials and data required for the mod.

The only part I don't like is the 'Possible Experimental Effects', it should be retitled 'Possible Additional Enhancements' in my opinion. For example, applying a Efficient mod on your multi-cannon shouldn't suddenly result in a new ammunition type, it just doesn't make sense. These are things I would like to see taken out of the Engineer process but available as an additional cost (very expensive preferably) as a bonus depending on what level upgrade you get the engineer to apply. Think of it like this - you have gained the complete trust of the Engineer, you have provided him all the materials needed for him to do his task, both of you are happy with the end result, so he takes you aside and says 'Look, I have this new type of ammo, won't damage ships you haven't targeted. Since you have been a great customer, it's yours for 1m Credits, no questions asked'.

Anyway, I just think the RND factor fits in better within the BGS and how you found the materials.

I like it too as long as the RNG has a higher chance of positive spins than negative according to your karma.
 
I think a lot more are for the engineer design than against. The randomness does add chance to the often monotonous game interaction.
What they really need to fix, I think, is the increasing number of UI bugs and small nuisances like, the odd required click more than would be needed to do a repeated thing, glitch scrolling, bad UI alignment and unresponsive menu elements. Streamline the experience and I think a lot of players would be a lot happier at very little expense from the devs.
 
I love the way the same caliber ammo, shot through the same weapon, can give you different capacities, they forgot about mass production/interchangeable parts?

Wait, I forgot my first dictum, IT'S A GAME!:D

Enjoy it for what it is.
 
I like it too as long as the RNG has a higher chance of positive spins than negative according to your karma.


Or alternatively, depending on the character of the Engineer themselves.


Like the Dweller, good rolls for Pirates and Smugglers, less so for Bounty Hunters. Vica Versa for Farseer etc.
 
Or alternatively, depending on the character of the Engineer themselves.


Like the Dweller, good rolls for Pirates and Smugglers, less so for Bounty Hunters. Vica Versa for Farseer etc.
That's good.

I think that some people miss the point about Karma. That it is designed to limit gameplay. It should open up new things, including consequences. Being "nice" also has consequences, and it certainly has limitations.
 
Yes, I like the engineers they are. That doesn't mean I'm against change, as long as it's improvement.
 
A thread about praising the RNG in a (supposedly) twitch-based piloting game. Disguised behind the acronyms RND and BGS which usually mean completely different things.

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Or alternatively, depending on the character of the Engineer themselves.


Like the Dweller, good rolls for Pirates and Smugglers, less so for Bounty Hunters. Vica Versa for Farseer etc.

I have no problem with that as long as from the outset it's clear who's for who and everyone can find an engineer for them. Either that or all pirates will have great dakka crap lasers...so instead of adding more walls to an already overly convoluted system, let's just forget about it.
 
Well, I kinda like the system. The only thing I dislike is the pure randomness of required material occurrence. I would gladly exchange current:

- bring 1 of X, 1 of Y and 1 of Z for a roll (where you spend 5 hours in search for those 3 pieces alone)

for

- bring 10 of X, 10 of Y and 10 of Z for a roll (where you spend 5 hours gathering those 30 pieces, BUT at 100% drop rate).

Time wise nothing would change but perception wise it'd be totally different. 5 Hours farm would be perceived as an achievement, not as a totally wasted time.
 
Well, I kinda like the system. The only thing I dislike is the pure randomness of required material occurrence. I would gladly exchange current:

- bring 1 of X, 1 of Y and 1 of Z for a roll (where you spend 5 hours in search for those 3 pieces alone)

for

- bring 10 of X, 10 of Y and 10 of Z for a roll (where you spend 5 hours gathering those 30 pieces, BUT at 100% drop rate).

Time wise nothing would change but perception wise it'd be totally different. 5 Hours farm would be perceived as an achievement, not as a totally wasted time.


It would make some engineers more interesting if they requested for you to change a state of a system in the BGS for a higher level modification as an alternative to material requests.
 
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