Hellion + Elite Dangerous = My Ultimate Dream Game

CMDR Rhatigan

CMDR Rhatigan
I just picked up Hellion on sale last weekend.. and holy CRAP does it fill a void Elite Dangerous doesn't provide yet! :O

For those of you who don't know, it's a space survival game where you can walk around, weld repairs on your station, put modules together to customize your station, fly to other planets' orbits, fight/board other players' ships and stations, float around in zero-g.. and just.. WOWZAS! It's basically what I hope Elite Dangerous provides once Space Legs is realized. I feel like they completely nailed it!

In case anyone is on the Space Legs hype train for ED, Hellion is prob the best bet at the moment! Now if only FDev acquires Hellion and merges the games..... O_O JK I know you can't just merge two games.. but FDev should def take some notes for their own implementation of legs!!!
 

Vasea Azure

Vasea Azure
Hellion is a good example of how space legs concept can work and even in game like Elite but - I`m more interested in how this topic will degenerate in to Star Citizen lovers and haters debate/ Elite is or is not in need of FPS game play / how OP should play another game especially Hellion... did I missed anything? :D

OP - I`m all for SL for ED as I follow original vision of David Braben and I do hope FD is still on this track too. Anybody saying that Elite is about only piloting spaceships should take a breath and dig to some lovely quotes from David and FD game designers. In short - I hope it will happen in the next two years or so and we will be able to eva/walk.

It has been discussed to the death at this point too - prepare for circular discussion about ED Space Legs nubmer... 42... ? We really need some sticky mega topic about Space Legs.
 
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Spyro Jance

Spyro Jance
Good to hear! I'll have to check it out. Sadly there are a handful of very vocal people on the forums who are quick to disparage any notion of space legs in Elite Dangerous - some of whom are prolific YouTubers. I'm still hoping that one day I'll be able to walk around my ship, do actual repairs instead of using a magic self-repair module, have my own space station and/or planetary base.
Although I probably wouldn't be interested in FPS combat, I'd certainly not be against it - I'm more of an explorer/trader/miner than a fighter anyway. But for me nothing would add more to the overall immersion of the game than space legs.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Vasea Azure said:
Hellion is a good example of how space legs concept can work and even in game like Elite but - I`m more interested in how this topic will degenerate in to Star Citizen lovers and haters debate/ Elite is or is not in need of FPS game play / how OP should play another game especially Hellion... did I missed anything? :D

OP - I`m all for SL for ED as I follow original vision of David Braben and I do hope FD is still on this track too. Anybody saying that Elite is about only piloting spaceships should take a breath and dig to some lovely quotes from David and FD game designers. In short - I hope it will happen in the next two years or so and we will be able to eva/walk.

It has been discussed to the death at this point too - prepare for circular discussion about ED Space Legs nubmer... 42... ? We really need some sticky mega topic about Space Legs.
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They key point for me, and one that is often not taken into consideration, is that it is easier to make a game that does A and another game that does B, than a game that does both A and B. And when you expand that to A til F, it becomes MUCH more difficult to do it in one game. I'd love if they could add a Hellion to ED. Or, alternatively, if they could add ED to Hellion. :) In truth, I dont believe for a second it is actually feasible at this time, and attempts at this either have failed (X:R, EvE) or are failing (SC). At some point its best to consider that all these attempts may have failed because we want too much, rather than that everyone who tried is incompetent at performing this doable task. :)
 

CMDR Rhatigan

CMDR Rhatigan
sleutelbos said:
They key point for me, and one that is often not taken into consideration, is that it is easier to make a game that does A and another game that does B, than a game that does both A and B. And when you expand that to A til F, it becomes MUCH more difficult to do it in one game. I'd love if they could add a Hellion to ED. Or, alternatively, if they could add ED to Hellion. :) In truth, I dont believe for a second it is actually feasible at this time, and attempts at this either have failed (X:R, EvE) or are failing (SC). At some point its best to consider that all these attempts may have failed because we want too much, rather than that everyone who tried is incompetent at performing this doable task. :)
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Yea, they're going to add ship to ship combat in Hellion at some point.. and I just fear that THAT is going to screw it up for me lol can't match Elite's ship combat EVER!!!
 

Urbanski101

Urbanski101
Although I've not played Hellion I've watched some extended play sessions on it and it does look good.

I'm not sure it's a game I'd want to play though, it's just a little too slow and process driven - kinda looked like space DIY which is not really what I'm looking for in a game.

I can totally see how some of the movement in zero g and some of the mechanics could be used in ED if they ever went down that route.

sleutelbos does have a good point however - even though 'spaces legs' was part of Braben's vision, is it realistic and achievable in ED? Is it expecting too much of FDev?
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Urbanski101 said:
sleutelbos does have a good point however - even though 'spaces legs' was part of Braben's vision, is it realistic and achievable in ED? Is it expecting too much of FDev?
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In and of itself, 'spacelegs' is absolutely doable. Not even FD casts doubt on it, and they are usually very deflective about stuff. The big question is how good it'll be compared to games designed for 'legs' rather than ships. As Rhatigan basically said, adding something mediocre to something great generally makes the product worse, not better. Lets wait and see. :)
 

TenakaFurey

T
Urbanski101 said:
Although I've not played Hellion I've watched some extended play sessions on it and it does look good.

I'm not sure it's a game I'd want to play though, it's just a little too slow and process driven - kinda looked like space DIY which is not really what I'm looking for in a game.

I can totally see how some of the movement in zero g and some of the mechanics could be used in ED if they ever went down that route.

sleutelbos does have a good point however - even though 'spaces legs' was part of Braben's vision, is it realistic and achievable in ED? Is it expecting too much of FDev?
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It's doable, and it'd be doable to a certain degree of acceptableness.

But EDs primary focus is as a space sim. So...anyone expecting Far Cry in space would probably be disappointed.

But certainly...space legs is doable. Walking around your ship...stations...procgen cities...doable. Adding mechanics for basic FPS/boarding...salvage...repair...surveying...specialist mining...base/ruin exploration...doable.

More so since FDev have no compunction against making use of gameplay shortcuts.

But it could never be as "detailed" as a true FPS game. But then, it doesn't have to be.
 

Surefoot

S
There is zero gameplay loop that would warrant the existence of space legs. Currently ED is a successful combat spacesim, with pretty GFX and a huge empty galaxy. There's no game loop outside of bounty hunting, even trading is completely empty of substance due to having no proper economy (with production chains, etc.). Interesting missions are also oriented towards combat and there's where you have the most gameplay elements. So where do space legs fit in there ? Imagine you have them tomorrow, you'll have nothing to do with them, unless it adds even more time sinks to make the game even more grindy. Which we dont want, do we ?

Hellion looks really nice but at the gameplay core it's a survival game, with all the game mechanics of other survival games, just "IN SPACE !" added to it, with a pretty nice simulation aspect though (microgravity and orbital mechanics, well done guys).
 
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lysan

lysan
Vasea Azure said:
Hellion is a good example of how space legs concept can work and even in game like Elite but - I`m more interested in how this topic will degenerate in to Star Citizen lovers and haters debate/ Elite is or is not in need of FPS game play / how OP should play another game especially Hellion... did I missed anything? :D

OP - I`m all for SL for ED as I follow original vision of David Braben and I do hope FD is still on this track too. Anybody saying that Elite is about only piloting spaceships should take a breath and dig to some lovely quotes from David and FD game designers. In short - I hope it will happen in the next two years or so and we will be able to eva/walk.

It has been discussed to the death at this point too - prepare for circular discussion about ED Space Legs nubmer... 42... ? We really need some sticky mega topic about Space Legs.
Click to expand...


I always said that spacelegs is not a problem if done right. We even got a thread running discussing how to do it.

Yes hellion is a great demo of how it could be done. I always believe that shooting at stuff is not always the best gameplay. Fixing stuff by repairing, scavenging parts, is always more fun in the long run.
 

TenakaFurey

T
Surefoot said:
you'll have nothing to do with them, unless it adds even more time sinks to make the game even more grindy. Which we dont want, do we ?
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All games are grindy....it's just a question of how easily they hide it. Offering a variety of things to do using a variety of mechanics..
including space legs...is one way.

Space legs aren't essential for Elite, bit they are something players want, and they are something FDev want to add and develop.

They've already taken the first step with avatars.

As for gameplay....exploration of planets, ships, wrecks and stations. The ability to salvage specific parts from ships or mine specific veins of ore. Boarding a craft as a pirate for FPS combat. Or to seek out a target for a bounty. Wandering around a procgen city or station or base or exploring alien ruins on foot. Repairing your ship via EVA or simply going out to take a picture.

Not all of these would work in ED, and some are better done with drones but there is still a good bit of gameplay potential is space legs

I would agree that there are more important areas of the game that need improving first though.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
I love the concept and I have Hellion in my wish list, waiting for a sale, but...

http://steamspy.com/app/588210

Around 100 concurrent players on average as of last checks (unless other servers not counted here). Not really looking like it is going to take off is it.
 
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[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
CMDR Rhatigan said:
I just picked up Hellion on sale last weekend.. and holy CRAP does it fill a void Elite Dangerous doesn't provide yet! :O

For those of you who don't know, it's a space survival game where you can walk around, weld repairs on your station, put modules together to customize your station, fly to other planets' orbits, fight/board other players' ships and stations, float around in zero-g.. and just.. WOWZAS! It's basically what I hope Elite Dangerous provides once Space Legs is realized. I feel like they completely nailed it!

In case anyone is on the Space Legs hype train for ED, Hellion is prob the best bet at the moment! Now if only FDev acquires Hellion and merges the games..... O_O JK I know you can't just merge two games.. but FDev should def take some notes for their own implementation of legs!!!
Click to expand...

i would love hellion IF it offered support for co-op players vs npcs.... for me without that support what could be right up there with elite becomes something i have zero iinterest in :(

last i heard npc only mode was not on the roadmap. :(

the theory behind it all tho is perfect. lots of technical nitty gritty, going EVA, fixing and buildnig stuff, almost like stig of the dump in space. all of that i think could be a brilliant fit in Elite one day.

all of those wrecked ships floating in space are prime candidates for stripping down or maybe even getting flying again. esp if there was a chance to get moded gear of them etc, or hell, maybe even meet a thargoid who has boarded to look for a lunchtime snack.
 
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[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
maybe that game spefifically... i am inclined to agree.... BUT imo it is hard not to be impressed by the mechanics around the game... the only thing ruining it is other players imo ;)
 

CmdrKull

C
Mad Mike said:
maybe that game spefifically... i am inclined to agree.... BUT imo it is hard not to be impressed by the mechanics around the game... the only thing ruining it is other players imo ;)
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We’ll surely there are enough of us Elite guys to band together and give it a fair shake. It’s improved a lot since the first release, but I’ve not explored the multiplayer aspect much at all. I’d jump into a random station and everyone would be bugged or simply afk. I’d like to see what a team could do. I’ll swing back to this thread on Saturday and so who’s around then. I play on the Dallas servers but I think my ping is decent enough I could connect to an EU server and not hate life.
 

lysan

lysan
Mad Mike said:
i would love hellion IF it offered support for co-op players vs npcs.... for me without that support what could be right up there with elite becomes something i have zero iinterest in :(

last i heard npc only mode was not on the roadmap. :(

the theory behind it all tho is perfect. lots of technical nitty gritty, going EVA, fixing and buildnig stuff, almost like stig of the dump in space. all of that i think could be a brilliant fit in Elite one day.

all of those wrecked ships floating in space are prime candidates for stripping down or maybe even getting flying again. esp if there was a chance to get moded gear of them etc, or hell, maybe even meet a thargoid who has boarded to look for a lunchtime snack.
Click to expand...

They should make a single player game instead, make an interesting story and it will sell well.
 
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