Secondary Power Plant

[Assimilator1]

In a word: No.

It's a bad idea given that Engineering the Power Plant with Qwent (even to level 1 overcharging) takes care of this problem. Even with the modest amount of heat increase, I have a build with that power plant tinkering that allows me to run everything I have in my ship without overheating issues. And yes, I've run with my shields because at the time, I didn't know what to expect of this Thargoid nonsense. Seems even in my current over-caution, they're not much of a threat in the Deep Black as of late...

Further, it makes no sense as I just made a run 5,000 LY out (in order to unlock Palin) and I can assure you that I have not once run the AFMU to repair anything during that month run... Which raises the very question someone asked me, "what the hell are you doing out there that requires the need for repairs?" If you're flying tired/exhausted, are you sure you're actually playing the game for the enjoyment?

Finally, it's not as though you're going to be running into gankers/griefers that far out. After 3,000 LY it is my not even remotest humble opinion you had to seriously anger someone off to follow you to make your life hell in the Deep Black.

Your wrong on 2 points, 1. yes gankers do go that far out, particularly at known interest points, e.g the Dynasty bases to name but 1, not common, but it does happen.
2. At least as far as my idea went, it's purpose is not for additional power, but back up only. Also overcharging your PP does nothing to help if it gets knocked out, I think you mis-understood the op there . It's nothing to do with heat issues, it's about having power for the AMFU (at the least) if your PP gets badly damaged. Atm, it can't be repaired.

And just because you've made 1 little 5000 LY trip out , doesn't mean damage can't happen. Prior to 2.4 you could be dumped inbetween 2 close binaries & your ship could be cooked! Even with that risk removed now(?), using neutron stars to boost jump range, does damage systems (I know it damages the FSD, not sure about the PP). Oh & not to mention random mistakes flying in SC or landing on high G worlds.

 

[MBaldelli]

Your wrong on 2 points, 1. yes gankers do go that far out, particularly at known interest points, e.g the Dynasty bases to name but 1, not common, but it does happen.

Indeed, and I've covered that when I said,

After 3,000 LY it is my not even remotest humble opinion you had to seriously anger someone off to follow you to make your life hell in the Deep Black.

Most explorers I've had extended discussions with don't attract much attention -- other than streamers. Stream sniping on the other hand attracts a different sort of griefer. If you've angered a griefer that much, then there's the option of running Private Group/Solo until they calm down... It is an option to handle that problem.

And just because you've made 1 little 5000 LY trip out , doesn't mean damage can't happen. Prior to 2.4 you could be dumped inbetween 2 close binaries & your ship could be cooked! Even with that risk removed now(?), using neutron stars to boost jump range, does damage systems (I know it damages the FSD, not sure about the PP). Oh & not to mention random mistakes flying in SC or landing on high G worlds.

You're right -- certain binaries will cause the ship to bounce out of Witchspace farther from the entry star because of the binary placement. But it doesn't stop on all placements. I've experienced some exceptions to this during my trip I did discover at least two other binary placements that don't do this... Did I suffer damage? Nope, but I did almost wet my pants on one placement.

However, if you're using neutrons, you're not being a Deep Space Explorer -- you're YOLO flying -- like an adrenaline junky. This logic suffers in much the same way the person that posted last week looking for better jump range for exploring. As I've said before Explorers aren't out there trying to do faster (or longer) distances from point A to point B -- explorers are out there looking into the nooks and crannies of the sandbox trying to find things not found before. And if you're suffering any other damage (other than Neutrons), it raises questions as to whether you're playing the game -- as an explorer -- for the enjoyment.

As it stands, we can't use the AFMU to repair structural integrity so that's out... And you can't repair the power supply, so that's out as well.

Further -- the wiki and the devs have clearly stated:

Given its very slow rate of repair AFMU is generally considered to be ineffective to counter combat attrition, However, it can be of great use to explorers who find themselves taking unnecessary heat damage a lot, or if to repair heat damage from the use of Shield Cell banks.

So please don't pull the "oh you aren't a DSE because you've only gone 5,000 LY" even in snarky jest... This weakens the high road you're attempting to take. Especially when one is considering you're running neutrons to speed up the process.

 

[Drakkath]

afterall the power isn't being reverse fed to the PP but re-directed to (a few) systems.

Exactly that's the point i meant. I think we are both on the same wave.

 

[Troopi]

In my opinion, the game started tweaking everything when it introduced shield cell banks in optional modules.
So, what the hell, why not having optional modules for everything else?
- extra power plant (extra power, and backup in case the pp is damaged)
- capacitor charges
- extra ammo

remove the magic material storage, and change it to a material cargo rack.
remove the synthesis free mode, and turn it to a synthesis module.

- energy weapon amplifier module. (limited charges)
- refrigerating module (reduce the ship's heat generation)
and so on...

XD

 

[Assimilator1]

Indeed, and I've covered that when I said,

After 3,000 LY it is my not even remotest humble opinion you had to seriously anger someone off to follow you to make your life hell in the Deep Black.

Most explorers I've had extended discussions with don't attract much attention -- other than streamers. Stream sniping on the other hand attracts a different sort of griefer. If you've angered a griefer that much, then there's the option of running Private Group/Solo until they calm down... It is an option to handle that problem.



You're right -- certain binaries will cause the ship to bounce out of Witchspace farther from the entry star because of the binary placement. But it doesn't stop on all placements. I've experienced some exceptions to this during my trip I did discover at least two other binary placements that don't do this... Did I suffer damage? Nope, but I did almost wet my pants on one placement.

However, if you're using neutrons, you're not being a Deep Space Explorer -- you're YOLO flying -- like an adrenaline junky. This logic suffers in much the same way the person that posted last week looking for better jump range for exploring. As I've said before Explorers aren't out there trying to do faster (or longer) distances from point A to point B -- explorers are out there looking into the nooks and crannies of the sandbox trying to find things not found before. And if you're suffering any other damage (other than Neutrons), it raises questions as to whether you're playing the game -- as an explorer -- for the enjoyment.

As it stands, we can't use the AFMU to repair structural integrity so that's out... And you can't repair the power supply, so that's out as well.

Further -- the wiki and the devs have clearly stated:

Given its very slow rate of repair AFMU is generally considered to be ineffective to counter combat attrition, However, it can be of great use to explorers who find themselves taking unnecessary heat damage a lot, or if to repair heat damage from the use of Shield Cell banks.

So please don't pull the "oh you aren't a DSE because you've only gone 5,000 LY" even in snarky jest... This weakens the high road you're attempting to take. Especially when one is considering you're running neutrons to speed up the process.

Calm down man I was only having a little fun about your 5k LY trip , I haven't explored out much further than you (~10k LYs). From your earlier post it didn't sound like you were really aware of the (yes rare) dangers out there, but it seems you are.
As for gankers, it isn't primarily just streamers, or people who have really annoyed someone, there are some gankers who go to visiting hot spots deep in space (like the Dynasty bases) because they think it's funny to blow up explorers. There was 1 hovering around the Formidine rift earlier this year when that mystery kicked off.

As for using Neutron stars, it is legitimate when you want to visit a particular area a long way out, e.g. Dynasty bases, Colonia, etc etc, if I want to map & explore an area naturally I don't use neutron boosting.
Your definition of an explorer is too narrow, because it does depend where you want to explore.

Interesting to know you can still get the **** scared out of you by close binaries! . In my limited experience since 2.4 it's (so far) placed me a good distance away from them (even when they weren't close, which is odd).

Re repairing hull damage, IIRC although we can't repair ourselves as yet, others can repair your hull with the appropriate limpets. Not sure why we can't do our own atm though...

Drakkath
Yep

 

[Exeider]

But what happens to the risk of space exploration? You all just wanna cover your...your...buttocks.

The risk is running out of supplies, and jumping into a situation that completely overwhelmes the Cmdr,

I've always felt that a Cmdr should be able to put down somewhere and be able to make repairs with the SRV or even on foot, find enough raw materials roving on a planet and invest some time landed somewhere, you should be able to patch up your ship and get it back up 100%

I like the idea alot, very scifi, you get some piece of equipment to do something to help give you leeway to repair another critical piece of equipment.

 

[Drakkath]

Re repairing hull damage, IIRC although we can't repair ourselves as yet, others can repair your hull with the appropriate limpets. Not sure why we can't do our own atm though...

But... you can!? I have done this a dozen times. There must be no target locked on and then you simly can fire a repair limpet. Now it repairs slowly a part of your hull and canopy. You need several limpets if the damage is high. During repair you get a kind of progress indicator. It shows you the repair time the current limpet need. After this you must fire eventually one or more additionally limpets, until the damage is fully repaired. On my deep space tours i allways have a Repair Limpet Control on board.

So we can repair all, except the Power Plant.

I've always felt that a Cmdr should be able to put down somewhere and be able to make repairs with the SRV or even on foot, find enough raw materials roving on a planet and invest some time landed somewhere, you should be able to patch up your ship and get it back up 100%

Exactly that's the way I doing repairs. I land on a planet, repair all I can and then I collect new materials with a SRV for the AFMU's and other devices.

I like the idea alot, very scifi, you get some piece of equipment to do something to help give you leeway to repair another critical piece of equipment.

About my idea with the Power Distributor: it have a little bit from the Apollo 13 mission. ^^

Elite Dangerous offer us a lot of flexibilty about ships and equipment and a lot of freedom. I love it!

 

[MBaldelli]

I see the problem here and agree. The game doesn't have save points until you dock I suppose. When you cannot, maybe there should be a save option. Although I like the concept of using the charged capacitors as an emergency spark to enable critical system repairs.

The game also has save points based on what system you're in (when you exit to desktop), and there are also save points based on what system you were in and what system you were going to based on an FSD jump where "Matchmaking Errors" occur. They might not be obvious, but they're definitely there.

 

[Assimilator1]

But... you can!? I have done this a dozen times. There must be no target locked on and then you simly can fire a repair limpet. Now it repairs slowly a part of your hull and canopy. You need several limpets if the damage is high. During repair you get a kind of progress indicator. It shows you the repair time the current limpet need. After this you must fire eventually one or more additionally limpets, until the damage is fully repaired. On my deep space tours i allways have a Repair Limpet Control on board.

So we can repair all, except the Power Plant.

Lol, ok I was outta touch on that one! , good to know btw

 

[ick]

Of course there is a lot of damage taken during exploration. I have experienced it.

Isn't there a known super-massive planet that usually results in damage during landing?
Isn't there a tourist attraction that is on a planet with an orbit so close to a star that you take heat damage whilst landing?
My batteries in the controller are low and I end up having the controller disconnect during jump. Doh! Heat damage!

It is impossible to explore some locations without taking damage.

As the saying goes....

Two is one, one is none.

You should be able to equip a secondary power option for repairs to all primary systems. And you should have to give up a slot in order to do it.

 

[MBaldelli]

Calm down man I was only having a little fun about your 5k LY trip , I haven't explored out much further than you (~10k LYs). From your earlier post it didn't sound like you were really aware of the (yes rare) dangers out there, but it seems you are.
As for gankers, it isn't primarily just streamers, or people who have really annoyed someone, there are some gankers who go to visiting hot spots deep in space (like the Dynasty bases) because they think it's funny to blow up explorers. There was 1 hovering around the Formidine rift earlier this year when that mystery kicked off.

I am calm... If I'm using the word please, I am cooler than a cucumber. If you want to see me incendiary, just ask and I'll e-mail you examples that are still in existence from Usenet). My Inara .sig will give an idea on where my experiences lie and failing that -- my profile here will demonstrate my experience as a DSE based on who and where I answer.

As a general habit; I avoid the touristy hot-spots when I travel... Be it in game or real time. I don't like dealing with lots of people as I find myself overwhelmed trying to track everyone around me. Streamers and stream sniping however I've witnessed. So far only one streamer I've watched with frequency has the absolute most positive attitude when he's encountered it. As I've said though -- there's a definite difference between the ganker/griefer for a players in the game (with them being what I would label "garden variety") versus Stream Snipers (which them being what I call "attention es").

As for using Neutron stars, it is legitimate when you want to visit a particular area a long way out, e.g. Dynasty bases, Colonia, etc etc, if I want to map & explore an area naturally I don't use neutron boosting.
Your definition of an explorer is too narrow, because it does depend where you want to explore.

You're ering semantics at this point. I won't agree to disagree as you're attempting to use a shortcut to get someplace faster than usual and seems to be implying an issue that Variform and I agree upon here. Especially when you consider that there are tons of unexplored systems outside the Bubble at least than 750 LY out from it. They might not be savory for the MR, ELW, AWs and terraformables, but they are definitely worthwhile for the HMCs that contain inordinate amount of rare level surface materials that will surprise you about their percentages on their surface (ex. Arsenic at more than 15% planetside, Polonium at upward to 10%, and Ruthenium at 12% and that's just off the top of my head).

I'm suspecting based on what you're implying is that you've got yourself a case of gold rush fever. Which tells me that you're not out for the exploration, you're out there (Colonia and beyond) for the money through first discoveries.

Interesting to know you can still get the **** scared out of you by close binaries! . In my limited experience since 2.4 it's (so far) placed me a good distance away from them (even when they weren't close, which is odd).

No, it was not a close binary... This has been fixed since 2.4. There are two exceptions to binary placement that I was inferring in the post you're responding to. One of them caused me to think there was a problem with the game (that caused me to almost wet myself) as I thought something was broken. That one I was referring to still put me on top of the entry star (like normal), but activated the fuel scoop and caused an unusual spike in thermal absorption that I thought was going to cause an Emergency Stop through overheat.

Looking at that system layout when I finished the entry cycle; I seem to have flown close over another scoopable star in the system that was running F Class hot.

The bottom line is that I'm not condoning methods for circumventing power issues that are caused from taking shortcuts in the game. Especially when it comes to player conveniences because of shortcuts taken. The devs have stated the total amount of the sandbox explored is less than 5% and based on this article it's going to take a while.

How is this suggestion of yours going to solve this issue precisely?

 

[Assimilator1]

God this is going way off topic, so just a few brief responses before I answer your question.
Ok so you weren't going mad, but you were getting shirty, semantics.

I'm suspecting based on what you're implying is that you've got yourself a case of gold rush fever. Which tells me that you're not out for the exploration, you're out there (Colonia and beyond) for the money through first discoveries.

Wrong! I've done plenty of exploring, just not gone far out. I've never been to Colonia, I did try once in my Python, fully loaded for a CG, I realised I wasn't going to make it in time so I ditched the cargo & turned back. I did stacks of mapping systems then & still do, in particular looking for Pristine metallic rings for the related thread, check out my latest contribution if you don't believe me. Yes I am interested in 1st discoveries too, so what?
Re neutron boosting, I've been to the Formidine rift twice, 1st time via normal jumping (& mapping on route), 2nd time via neutron boosting as I was trying to get there in time for the CG & wasn't particularly fussed about mapping along (more or less) the same route. That said, I still did look for ELWs & pris met rings (discovered or not), which no doubt made me late . Anyway, I stuck around the Formi rift to look for URCBs around ELWs, I (with help) compiled a list of them to search & searched many of them (with help again), it's in the last Formidine rift thread if you want to see it (with a link to the list in the op). Anyway, I think we know enough each others ED credentials now .

The bottom line is that I'm not condoning methods for circumventing power issues that are caused from taking shortcuts in the game. Especially when it comes to player conveniences because of shortcuts taken. The devs have stated the total amount of the sandbox explored is less than 5% and based on this article it's going to take a while.

How is this suggestion of yours going to solve this issue precisely?

Re short cuts, I assume you mean neutron boosting, it's in the game, it can cause system wide damage (if you're kicked out of SC in the cone), so it's quite legitimate to ask to be able to repair all modules.
Also that's not the only way the PP can become damaged, so again it makes sense to be able to repair the PP.

IIRC it's less than 0.5% of the galaxy has been explored, lol. And that isn't an issue, it's part of the game, the galaxy is massive, it's going to take a bloody long time to explore it all!
Although now I think about it, having a back up power supply will help that a tiny bit, if an explorer has a critically damaged or inoperative PP, he may decide to quit & self destruct or have no choice but to do so. Either way exploration data is lost, the galaxy takes that little bit longer to map.

I understand that you don't agree with neutron boosting & so won't support anything for it (we'll have to agree to disagree there), but a redundant power supply is an essential (if rarely needed) life saver for any deep space vessel (& others), whether 1000 LYs out or 50,000 LYs out. Even if outside of neutron boosting, damage to the PP is from human error (which will always happen at some point) doesn't mean it should remain un-repairable.

Btw, I'm not sure if you implied you're in the real Navy (respect if you are), but don't navy ships have some form of backup power supply? Or even just regular civy ships? Even if it's just a large battery pack? I'm no expert there, but I thought I'd heard or seen that before.
I do know though that passenger jets (at the least) have an emergency wind turbine generator incase all the engines fail, IIRC it's enough to provide power for flight controls, a few basic instruments & radio.
So in that light, it makes no sense that ED space ships have no back up power supply.

 

[MBaldelli]

God this is going way off topic, so just a few brief responses before I answer your question.
Ok so you weren't going mad, but you were getting shirty, semantics.

Shirty's possible. I can't help it sometimes; I live and breathe sarcasm. It's an occupational hazard to the work I often do as I can often deal with some very special (snowflakes) people.

Wrong! I've done plenty of exploring, just not gone far out. I've never been to Colonia, I did try once in my Python

You're doing this in a Python? Ugh.... I know that we can explore in any ship of our choosing and range isn't the problem, but I found the Python -- like the DBX -- to trigger an almost claustrophobic feeling within me. I am not actually a claustrophobic and only have a minor fear of heights.... But I can see what might be causing the impatience with you wanting to rush and cause damage enough to want a secondary power plant for the AFMU: the staggering amount of jumps you might want to do for getting somewhere outside of the Bubble.

Based on my understanding of the words, you're actually not an explorer; you're a prospector. While I can concur that there is an element of exploration involved, your purpose is more singular in intent: and that intent is for mining. My approach is far more altruistic in intend and that intent is part of PA's main charter for explorers: Don't kill explorers (they expand the exploitable galaxy, after all!)

And I stand corrected... you might not have the stampede fever of Colonia... You do have a fever though: and that's Prospector's Fever.

Re short cuts, I assume you mean neutron boosting, it's in the game, it can cause system wide damage (if you're kicked out of SC in the cone), so it's quite legitimate to ask to be able to repair all modules.

I would agree and even endorse the AFMU repairing the Power Plant. It seems entirely arbitrary to prohibit the repairs of any system on a ship because the devs don't want an over-powered panacea in the game. Hell, I can even work in the thought that the AFMU runs on a battery to fix the Power Plant and you having to be on emergency tanks for 3 minutes of the repairs.

However, the problems are:

1. You're not suggesting this in this thread, you're suggesting a second power core, which is what is being contested. And most importantly,
2. FDev is glacial (to the point of practically appearing stagnant) about changes to the game.

The second issue definitely doesn't help matters in this as I've been seeing in the last 3 months an almost frenetic urgency to the suggestions from end-players often repeating time and again many of the ongoing issues with the game. If they take weeks and months to fix something, just how much impatience is this going to generate from players?

Btw, I'm not sure if you implied you're in the real Navy (respect if you are), but don't navy ships have some form of backup power supply? Or even just regular civy ships? Even if it's just a large battery pack? I'm no expert there, but I thought I'd heard or seen that before.

No, you're confusing me with Chrystoph. He's the Navy man, I served in the Army during the Reagan Administration (that'll also give you an idea on how old I am). Most military vessels and submarines in particular have backups (Diesel if nuclear, battery if Diesel) for just this sort of thing. Civilian ships -- usually scientific vessels and much larger ships than the SS Minnow -- have backup power supplies as well.

However, we're not necessarily military vessels either. We're at best what can be considered government contractors with para-military abilities in the secondary (not the primary) position. Something that I've noticed a lot of former military have problems dealing with (myself included) when we're given honorary ranks and get treated worse than cow pats in the field when we come into a station.

I do know though that passenger jets (at the least) have an emergency wind turbine generator incase all the engines fail, IIRC it's enough to provide power for flight controls, a few basic instruments & radio. So in that light, it makes no sense that ED space ships have no back up power supply.

You're forgetting this though when you're thinking of our ships. We do have something of the sort even on our ships which allows us to perform reboots in the Deep Black. And if you shut off flight assist, we do have some flight/momentum -- but thruster controls aren't really quite the problem when you have no gravity and certainly no influences on inertia when you're between planetary objects.

I will endorse you for better AFMU abilities. But Backup Power because of poor driving and masquerading under the Explorer Banner? 'fraid not.

 

[afreeflyingsoul]

Secondary Power Plant on Optional Internal.

From Ian Doncaster idea on my Rebalance Shield Tank : Secondary Power Plant needed idea thread.



Indeed this is a nice idea as it would allow Explorers to repair their main Power Plant.

This could even be used in combat, even if really an exceptional strategy. If your power plant is taking down a secondary one could start to load just after that, allowing you to get away.

We could have all available Power Plant class available so that explorers can just take the smallest lightest one just to give supply energy to minimum requiered on the ship and AFMU to repair main Power Plant.

What do you think about it guys ?

How about solar panels?

They'd be totally worthless in combat, they'd be totally worthless too far away from a star, but it would still give you the ability to service your power plant while exploring.

 

[Assimilator1]

MBaldelli

Snowflakes, heheh
Re Python, yeah I didn't really think about the time it would take to get there, especially with the jump range drop when fully loaded! lol

Re prospecting, while I do some mining I really don't do much, & far less than I'd like to , it's been months since I've done any as I was involved in the Rift mystery, twice. Then a load of time engineering my ships, looking for & listing new potential Thargoid structure sites systems (see sig) & now mapping where Thargoid incursions (NHSSs) are occurring. So mostly my pris-met prospecting has been for the pris-met database, which can be used by all, my altruistic then just mining myself .

I would agree and even endorse the AFMU repairing the Power Plant. It seems entirely arbitrary to prohibit the repairs of any system on a ship because the devs don't want an over-powered panacea in the game. Hell, I can even work in the thought that the AFMU runs on a battery to fix the Power Plant and you having to be on emergency tanks for 3 minutes of the repairs.

However, the problems are:

1. You're not suggesting this in this thread, you're suggesting a second power core, which is what is being contested. And ......

Yeah battery back up was all I was suggesting, it was the op who suggested a 2nd PP (which I dis-agreed with), another idea by Drakkath is to have the distributor feedback it's (limited) power to a few systems (even just AMFU would do), which is a damn good idea . After all the PD is just 3 (super?) capacitors, & I think it's extremely unlikely that all 3 could be drained before a power failure....... right??

Forgot to say, I remember seeing Reagan on telly when I was a kid .

 

[MBaldelli]

Yeah battery back up was all I was suggesting, it was the op who suggested a 2nd PP (which I dis-agreed with), another idea by Drakkath is to have the distributor feedback it's (limited) power to a few systems (even just AMFU would do), which is a damn good idea . After all the PD is just 3 (super?) capacitors, & I think it's extremely unlikely that all 3 could be drained before a power failure....... right??

All right, I can work with that... But I don't want it as an optional module. @afreeflyingsoul said solar panels, which I would prefer to approve. Heck, something internal as part of the AFMU would be good too as I can't imagine a 2A AFMU wouldn't come with battery backup for doing the job. I might not agree with the incredibly through-the-roof power requirements for the bloody things, but it seems reasonable as your ship will be without power for the duration of the fix.

Forgot to say, I remember seeing Reagan on telly when I was a kid .

Nice! Remind me of how old I am. But that's all right -- the kids on the Discord Servers I'm on remind me of that too.. Even when they're calling me "gramps".

 

[Assimilator1]

Lol , I'm 48 if it helps mitigate it a bit

 

[Chrystoph]

Turning 50 on Thursday, so, not a lot of sympathy...

 

[Yure]

Could just make an engineering mod for repair limpet controller module, where you trade weight and power consumption for ability to repair power plant.

Science behind it is repair limpets now carry a battery back and programming unit that allows it to repair ship without generator on.

 

[space voyager]

Been proposed several times and I too don't see why this wouldn't be possible.

Ha ha, oldtimers, I'm a youngster. At 41... Though this game makes me feel lime 17 at times.