Obsidian Ant's video says it all...

[verminstar]

That's a real shame you don't use Galnet as many of the discoveries have been mentioned in there. Some of them even tell you the exact location to find them in

Ye already answered yer own question...yer reading about discoveries that have already been made ergo its not exploration its tourism. The point being I wanna find these things on my own, not read about how others found them and currently, the best tools fer the job are still the mark one eyeball and a whole lotta luck. I dont care fer the exploits of others, I care about my own exploits and journey and that doesnt include wasting a whole bunch of time chasing after something that has already been found and has guides written about it on youtube. Wheres the fun in that?

So say I wanna discover something never seen before without leaving the game...how does that work?

Answer...as demonstrated in the video, it doesnt and thats the point yer missing ^

 

[captaincoveman]

There's WHOLE genre of games that does not have narrative progression.

You solely single out specific, not so popular genre of games with narrative and double down on it.

Games without a narrative are pointless and appeal to very few people.

Rescue the princess (Mario), save the kingdom (Zelda), save humanity (Freespace) - these are three of the most famous gaming franchises ever and that is down to gaming narrative and storyline.

 

[captaincoveman]

There is no one thing



One Finger Death Punch

Games with poor narratives/weak or no storyline are not good games. Games are artistically very similar to films and books.

Dodges punch...

I raise you Lord of the Rings.

 

[Ozric]

Games without a narrative are pointless and appeal to very few people.

Rescue the princess (Mario), save the kingdom (Zelda), save humanity (Freespace) - these are three of the most famous gaming franchises ever and that is down to gaming narrative and storyline.

Mario's success is down to gaming narrative and storyline?

[video=youtube;_n5E7feJHw0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0[/video]

Games with poor narratives/weak or no storyline are not good games. Games are artistically very similar to films and books.

Dodges punch...

I raise you Lord of the Rings.

No mate, sorry, One Finger Death Punch is a great game!

 

[Mengy]

Games with poor narratives/weak or no storyline are not good games. Games are artistically very similar to films and books.

Completely false, especially for sandbox style games. Minecraft has absolutely zero story to it, are you saying it's not a "good game"? Several dozen million players would disagree with you on that one.

Some games provide the rulesets and then allow you to make your own story as you interact with the game environment. A narrative in a video game is not a necessity, thats what distinguishes them the most from books.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

So you don't accept that anyone's views other than your own are valid and you can never change your views?

Isn't that unreasonable?

I accept facts. You come here with your point of view, trying to back them with things you have no evidence with. You are looking for echo chamber, I disagree.

About OA video - ObsidianAnt isn't god and he regularly have opinions I strongly disagree with. In that video he unfortunately chooses approach which is basically same other complainers do - "I want this to be done before lunch time".

Elite does not work that way. He knows that. It's mysteries aren't spelled out or hinted. And such mysteries will require work to discover and to understand. If you aren't up to task - then don't do them.

Can some other mysteries which can be more easily discovered added to the game? I certainly think so. Do I think these examples are something for just casual player without big initiative to invest time into? No, certainly not.

And fact OA knows that and still tries to represent this approach muffles me.

And now to play devil's advocate - please show me such wast massive online game where unique discoveries like these are easily discoverable by just regular player without time investment. There aren't. Because they are unique by nature.

They are basically meant to discovered by someone and then shared between community. That's how they are designed. They are world changing discoveries.

Everybody should not be able to discover INRA bases without putting actual effort in it.

 

[captaincoveman]

Mario's success is down to gaming narrative and storyline?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

If the idea was just to "blaze Mario's trail in an open world" I think it might not have been very popular.

Same with Sonic - you are battling to defeat Robotnik not collecting coins for the fun of it.



No mate, sorry, One Finger Death Punch is a great game!

If the idea was just to "blaze Mario's trail in an open world" I think it might not have been very popular.

Same with Sonic - you are battling to defeat Robotnik not collecting coins for the fun of it.

As for One Finger Death punch - I'll leave that one to you and the other fans of it I think.

 

[Ozric]

Ye already answered yer own question...yer reading about discoveries that have already been made ergo its not exploration its tourism. The point being I wanna find these things on my own, not read about how others found them and currently, the best tools fer the job are still the mark one eyeball and a whole lotta luck. I dont care fer the exploits of others, I care about my own exploits and journey and that doesnt include wasting a whole bunch of time chasing after something that has already been found and has guides written about it on youtube. Wheres the fun in that?

So say I wanna discover something never seen before without leaving the game...how does that work?

Answer...as demonstrated in the video, it doesnt and thats the point yer missing ^

But you mentioned Galnet directly relating to this in the first place, not me, if it wasn't what you meant then you shouldn't have said it.

I think if you look at the sheer amount of things that have been discovered in game, you can clearly see it does work.

As for One Finger Death punch - I'll leave that one to you and the other fans of it I think.

Cheers, me and the other 720,000+ people will carry on enjoying it

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think lot of people still see this as single player game and that's why they think they should be able to discover something hidden and unique because they want to feel special.

I understand that sentiment, although as it is said - ED is not that kind of game.

 

[captaincoveman]

Completely false, especially for sandbox style games. Minecraft has absolutely zero story to it, are you saying it's not a "good game"? Several dozen million players would disagree with you on that one.

Some games provide the rulesets and then allow you to make your own story as you interact with the game environment. A narrative in a video game is not a necessity, thats what distinguishes them the most from books.

Minecraft Official site...

Minecraft is a game about placing blocks and going on adventures...

No narrative involved then...

I raise you Dungeons and Dragons (narrative is essential via the DM), ET (greatest film story ever maybe) and I Robot (great sf story)

Narrative is the essence of humanity.

 

[kpmop]

...

Seriously something has gone badly wrong with this game...

I wouldn't say gone badly wrong - it's more that it was never particularly right. It wouldn't take much to fix: somewhere in-game where you could get information/pick up clues to significant locations (assuming they've been discovered) - not everything, maybe just a starting point would be really useful. Yes there has been a bit of stuff in Galnet, but that's buried amongst reams of powerplay news (suggestion: add some filters to galnet so I can skip all that!).

I did Palin's mission - unfortunately similarly to Mr Ant I hadn't bookmarked any of the ruins I'd visited (d'oh) - so had no easy way of finding them again (eventually I searched the forums and found a nearby site) - but it would have been nice if this information was relatively easy to discover in-game.

 

[Mengy]

Minecraft Official site...

No narrative involved then...

I raise you Dungeons and Dragons (narrative is essential via the DM), ET (greatest film story ever maybe) and I Robot (great sf story)

Narrative is the essence of humanity.

Your argument is that since some things have narrative, ALL things should have narratives? Is that what you are saying? :S

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Narrative is the essence of humanity.

Yes, and we make our own narrative in Elite.

 

[captaincoveman]

I think lot of people still see this as single player game and that's why they think they should be able to discover something hidden and unique because they want to feel special.

I understand that sentiment, although as it is said - ED is not that kind of game.

All games are "single player" if you haven't got a second person living inside your skull.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

All games are "single player" if you haven't got a second person living inside your skull.

I am single in this world, and yet I can't discover all mysteries of this world of my own.

Elite world is basically the same.

Yeah, some people say - why play game which resembles real life - but I kinda like real life of space commander as escapism from my real life of IT specialist and wanna be creative persona.

 

[captaincoveman]

Your argument is that since some things have narrative, ALL things should have narratives? Is that what you are saying? :S

All great games, books or films have a narrative.

Not many people argue that Minecraft is a great enduring game because its narrative is relatively weak.

Strong narratives are a sure of sign of quality - weak narratives are a sign of artistic and creative failure.

Some people like weak narratives e.g. playing with a toy box instead of the toy inside. That is not a sign of superior intellect though.

 

[Jukelo]

Games without a narrative are pointless and appeal to very few people.

Are we arguing about what the point of video games is now? You are pretend-flying a pretend-spaceship in your pixel-outfit on the internet. Think about that for a minute before talking about some video games being pointless.

Rescue the princess (Mario), save the kingdom (Zelda), save humanity (Freespace) - these are three of the most famous gaming franchises ever and that is down to gaming narrative and storyline.

Some of my most played or all-time favorites are KSP, Orbiter, Falcon 4, IL-2, CK2, X3, and UT99, none of which have particularly strong storylines (if at all) and yet are/were quite popular and succesful.

 

[Mengy]

All great games, books or films have a narrative.

Not many people argue that Minecraft is a great enduring game because its narrative is relatively weak.

Strong narratives are a sure of sign of quality - weak narratives are a sign of artistic and creative failure.

Some people like weak narratives e.g. playing with a toy box instead of the toy inside. That is not a sign of superior intellect though.

What the Frack kind of nonsense are you on about? LOL!!!!!

Okay, enjoy your opinion, but I'm done conversing with you, as your viewpoint is far too limiting to allow an actual discussion.

 

[captaincoveman]

Yes, and we make our own narrative in Elite.

You can make your own narrative with a ball and string...that does mean that video games should not be entertaining and have emergent gameplay and good storylines though.

You are equating your unusual morality about having fun with "anything at all" with what is objectively entertaining for millions of gamers when these two things have absolutely nothing in common.

 

[captaincoveman]

Are we arguing about what the point of video games is now? You are pretend-flying a pretend-spaceship in your pixel-outfit on the internet. Think about that for a minute before talking about some video games being pointless.



Some of my most played or all-time favorites are KSP, Orbiter, Falcon 4, IL-2, CK2, X3, and UT99, none of which have particularly strong storylines (if at all) and yet are quite popular and succesful.

My argument is the same as Ant's - a good game is different to a bad game.

Simulations are quite like educational software - not really equivalent to video games.

But even most flight sims have a strong storyline anyway eg Ace Combat.