Star Citizen Discussions v7

[TenakaFurey]

Sure, you can stretch the definition that thin if you want, but "win" is in the phrase, and the straightforward definition is the literal one: paying to achieve the win condition.
But that's irrelevant. Even by your more general definition, SC still doesn't offer any "progression" to speed up, or "mechanics" to bypass, so the point stands.

Ummm...you can buy ships.

Buying ships is one of the core central aspects of space sims. They are one of tbe main rewards in game and they are an item that may take weeks or months to achieve. Indeed, some are so rare you might never find one in game.....

Except you can buy them now to have for the low, low price of $15k.

That is a huge chunk of the game these people have managed to bypass, and done so before the game even launches.

Is there any point to trading or mining if you already have the ship you want? Are you going to risk your £850 investment by fighting anyone who has a chance of winning? And as for explotation....how long do you think it'll take a few thousand explorers to thoroughly explore a system and find all the handcrafted goodies? How long do you think it'll take them to explore ten systems? 100?

To keep it short, CIG cannot possibly release content quickly enough to keep all the players engaged in the end game stage. People buying ships now just allows them to bypass huge chunks of the game or to sell later for money. People being able to buy credits allows them to bypass huge chunks later.

It may just be time, but time itself is an in game balancing mechanic.

SC is PTW...you pay to bypass huge chunks of the game, to avoid large parts of the gameplay and to give you a competitive edge over other players, important given that PvP is supposedly going to be a core part of the game.

SDC are already salivating over the carnage they'll be able to wreak. There's little wrong with that, but don't expect those players who are in it just for PvE to be happy and don't expect those players who expect honest PvP to care.

The decision to sells ships is understandable from a marketing point of view....but the decision to make mid- and end-game ships available is so utterly and inanely stupid that it makes you wonder what Chris Roberts was thinking and is uet another sign of his incompetence as a game designer and his inexperience at designing multiplayer games.

 

[1500]

Sure, you can stretch the definition that thin if you want, but "win" is in the phrase, and the straightforward definition is the literal one: paying to achieve the win condition.
But that's irrelevant. Even by your more general definition, SC still doesn't offer any "progression" to speed up, or "mechanics" to bypass, so the point stands.

You seem to have forgotten that CIG released arena commander, a PVP environment that you purchase the ships for real money. You are also ignoring the PU and how you can't even earn the ships that other people payed money for.

 

[DLewth]

I don't know any developer who put any thought or planning in to "grinding". Everybody acknowledges that it's sole purpose is to act like a time sink. What's really the difference in me playing hours to earn in game credits and me working a real job and earning the money to buy in game credit.

That's why I don't buy the whole P2W arguments. In the end you either pay with time or money. Now exclusivity unless balanced I can see the argument for.

And the guy who has spare money and time will totally slap the guy working minimum wage 50 hours a week and just wants a bit of fun.
The question is not whether you buy the P2W argument.
The question is whether or not you buy an Idris and grief the poor sap working at McDonalds.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You are also ignoring the PU and how you can't even earn the ships that other people payed money for.

Yet... CIG have said all ships will be earnable once the game goes live. How much work that will require will be interesting to see. Your point about Arena Commander though is spot on.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

SDC are already salivating over the carnage they'll be able to wreak.

With good reason. Its going to be a griefers paradise based on what we know. Unlike ED you won't be able to instantly summon a new ship, not unless the station has a ship in stock or the right parts for one, and the more expensive the ship, the less likely that one will be immediately avaialable. Even LTI as i understand it isn't forever and the waiting mechanic will still apply and only applies to the hull, not modules.

Even their equivalent of high sec won't stop some players getting their jollies, same as in ED, same as in EvE. When one side doesn't care about losing their ships, and the other side does, then the system/location security doesn't really matter much.

Still, game isn't released yet and most of these mechanics aren't even in game yet... CIG can still change how such things will work.

 

[n4p0l3on]

Star citizen is anything but pay to win, star citizen is pay to dream, pay to get scammed, pay to theory craft, pay to build the grand vision of bdsse, pay to give croberts his porsche, pay to give sandi her gucci handbag, pay to get lensnick keep stuffed, pay to get ben parry keep tinkering the frankenstar engine, pay to keep disco londo parroting virtual carrots to whales, pay to keep derek smart rambling monthly about ELE, pay to get amd and intel sponsoring the next croberts holywood dream, pay to get gollum mocapping whatever he was supposed to mocap, pay to get linguists that nobody ever heard before plagiarizing the chinese language and mix it with klingons, pay to keep that virtual space janitor mopping the deck of that limited edition idris. Etc.

It is not pay to win, period.

 

[TenakaFurey]

Still, game isn't released yet and most of these mechanics aren't even in game yet... CIG can still change how such things will work.

And then people will be ticked off because they bought the ship only for CIG to "change the rules"

 

[Zetta]

With good reason. Its going to be a griefers paradise based on what we know. Unlike ED you won't be able to instantly summon a new ship, not unless the station has a ship in stock or the right parts for one, and the more expensive the ship, the less likely that one will be immediately avaialable. Even LTI as i understand it isn't forever and the waiting mechanic will still apply and only applies to the hull, not modules.

Even their equivalent of high sec won't stop some players getting their jollies, same as in ED, same as in EvE. When one side doesn't care about losing their ships, and the other side does, then the system/location security doesn't really matter much.

Still, game isn't released yet and most of these mechanics aren't even in game yet... CIG can still change how such things will work.

Wasn't there also a thing about the wait duration being increased the more claims you make? It does sound like the system is ripe for trolling especially as there's money (and the entitlement that brings) involved.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Sure, you can stretch the definition that thin if you want, but "win" is in the phrase, and the straightforward definition is the literal one: paying to achieve the win condition.
But that's irrelevant. Even by your more general definition, SC still doesn't offer any "progression" to speed up, or "mechanics" to bypass, so the point stands.

Fun fact: we could apply this to many of CR/CIG's sentences, starting with the infamous BDSSE.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wasn't there also a thing about the wait duration being increased the more claims you make? It does sound like the system is ripe for trolling especially as there's money (and the entitlement that brings) involved.

Hadn't heard that. All i heard was about some really insane system where it all depended on the station having the required materials to construct the ship you need. If not, then it would have to be flown in from a station that does have the hull you need (in real time), so you would have to wait for that... presumably while you are waiting you can mop the floors of the current station to keep yourself busy.

All in the name of fidelity.

Its just another one of those things where something sounds really cool on the surface, but only needs a second or two of critical thought to understand that most gamers will hate it.

 

[Britney]

Chris robert's company created value by selling virtual items for a game in production. You can bet that the company will do whatever possible to protect the value of these items, not only to not upset the fans who invested already, but also to make further monetisation possible.

 

[Viajero]

Star citizen is anything but pay to win, star citizen is pay to dream, pay to get scammed, pay to theory craft, pay to build the grand vision of bdsse, pay to give croberts his porsche, pay to give sandi her gucci handbag, pay to get lensnick keep stuffed, pay to get ben parry keep tinkering the frankenstar engine, pay to keep disco londo parroting virtual carrots to whales, pay to keep derek smart rambling monthly about ELE, pay to get amd and intel sponsoring the next croberts holywood dream, pay to get gollum mocapping whatever he was supposed to mocap, pay to get linguists that nobody ever heard before plagiarizing the chinese language and mix it with klingons, pay to keep that virtual space janitor mopping the deck of that limited edition idris. Etc.

It is not pay to win, period.

That is also fair enough

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Star citizen is anything but pay to win, star citizen is pay to dream, pay to get scammed, pay to theory craft, pay to build the grand vision of bdsse, pay to give croberts his porsche, pay to give sandi her gucci handbag, pay to get lensnick keep stuffed, pay to get ben parry keep tinkering the frankenstar engine, pay to keep disco londo parroting virtual carrots to whales, pay to keep derek smart rambling monthly about ELE, pay to get amd and intel sponsoring the next croberts holywood dream, pay to get gollum mocapping whatever he was supposed to mocap, pay to get linguists that nobody ever heard before plagiarizing the chinese language and mix it with klingons, pay to keep that virtual space janitor mopping the deck of that limited edition idris. Etc.

It is not pay to win, period.

I'll pay that.

 

[Susanna]

A lot of people who like ED are looking forward to Star Citizen.

I'm just not convinced CIG will ever get it released. For all the money they have raised, for all the developers they have hired, they don't seem to have done much.

A grand vision and lofty goals are nice to have, but the ultimate aim is to create a game.

Star Citizen is promising as much. Maybe even as much as Elite. But it has yet to deliver

I've bought into SC, so hope it will deliver at some point. I too am hopeful that 3.0 will start to be a playable game (I don't consider the current 2.6 to be worth the time).

What I wanted to say was I watched through the latest 'Burndown' update recently.

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;NxBdyyGx7vM]https://youtu.be/NxBdyyGx7vM[/video]

They strike me as a bunch of guys that are trying to be as open and forthright as possible with the current development position. They show their (edited no doubt) meetings, they get different people across the company to review what they are doing to progress SC. In essence, they appear to recognise that their 'boss' (and we all ultimately have a boss of some description), are the SC backers and they need to keep them onside. This encourages me to feel that they are not acting like lone wolves with other people's money... So I I'm hopeful for 3.0.

 

[1500]

Yet... CIG have said all ships will be earnable once the game goes live. How much work that will require will be interesting to see. Your point about Arena Commander though is spot on.

True but they have been saying that for years and it still has not happened. CIG chose to lock ships behind a pay wall during a testing pre-alpha. That speaks volumes about how CIG will run the game in the future.

 

[lysan]

Star citizen is promoted as a rpgmmo sim space game, CIG will not in this decade be able to make a game even close to that description! They simply don't have the skill nor the expirance to make it happen.

Even FDEV have said that they have learned a lot since ED was first launched, and I can guarantee if they had to do it all over they would do it differently all together.

The type of game both SC and ED would like to be are 3 games in one game, that is a huge undertaking, and the technology to do so need to be developed from the bottom and up.

As it is now, ED is the king and SC the boy who dream of greatness.

 

[krylite]

Unfortunately the "ATV's" and update videos seem like to me, highly edited reports on disparate projects at best, techdemo propaganda showpieces at worst. Look at all the trailers/commercials they've had over the years. High quality expensive looking trailers/commercials. (this is one way back when) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EC4WHPxnrk&feature=youtu.be&t=2m57s I'm sure there are plenty of competent devs trying their best at RSI. Some look worried and maybe hopeful and thinking they can transition to another project with some measure of resume building on whatever they were tasked with on SC before the fallout from the ponzi collapse.

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg5582#msg5582

Spoiler

http://www.dereksmart.com/forum/index.php?topic=29.msg5598#msg5598

 

[n4p0l3on]

I've bought into SC, so hope it will deliver at some point. I too am hopeful that 3.0 will start to be a playable game (I don't consider the current 2.6 to be worth the time).

What I wanted to say was I watched through the latest 'Burndown' update recently.

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/NxBdyyGx7vM

They strike me as a bunch of guys that are trying to be as open and forthright as possible with the current development position. They show their (edited no doubt) meetings, they get different people across the company to review what they are doing to progress SC. In essence, they appear to recognise that their 'boss' (and we all ultimately have a boss of some description), are the SC backers and they need to keep them onside. This encourages me to feel that they are not acting like lone wolves with other people's money... So I I'm hopeful for 3.0.

Sincerity doesn't mean much when you are by now years late, already consumed hundreds of millions of dollars, still have no tangible product of what was promised in the first place AND still continue to use shady practices to get more money despite self proclaimed statement that they already got all the money they needed to finish the whole project.

 

[Mu77ley]

 

[Agony_Aunt]

[url]https://i.imgur.com/uPgDfdi.png[/URL]

What amazes me about that it makes it look as though CIG's development is slowing down, not speeding up.

Remember when in 2015 it was saying they were developing the tools, laying the foundations, and when done, things will speed up.... and then again in 2016... and again in 2017.... i wonder when it will actually speed up.

Now some fans are saying its taken so long because of the sheer amount of content added..... which we still are not sure of, because 3.0 NDA etc, but from what we have seen, i'm not sure that what is coming is worth all that delay. Maybe this time round they really were developing the tools, laying the foundations..... ugh... nope, not again.