Windows Mixed Reality Headsets (WMRD) and Elite: Dangerous

[Globusdiablo]

Hey all

I've been trying to find solid intel, but haven't been able to so far.

Does anyone here have any actual hands on experience with these new WMRDs and E: D, and has anyone made direct comparions to Rift/Vive?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ICDP]

I have a Lenovo Mixed Reality HMD and have owned a Rift CV1 in the past (also DK2). Here are some comparisons between CV1 and Lenovo for the lense only while reading in flight menus and text.

The sweetspot on the Lenovo feels smaller than on the Rift but I believe it is a combination of two factors.

1. The sweetspot is indeed slightly smaller

2. It is exaggerated by the fact the Lenovo (and ovbiously any MR HMDs) have a more pronounced transition.

For example

Rift lense transition
< unreadable | unreadable | barely readable...... | barely readable | .....barely readable | unreadable | unreadable >
< ..............................................suffers from god rays accross entire lense................................................... >


Lenovo lense transition
<Blurry mess | unreadable...... | barely readable | easily readable | barely readable | unreadable..... | blurry mess >
< .god rays......................... |............................NO GOD RAYS............................|...........................god rays. >



So I perceive the Lenovo to have a clearer, if slightly smaller sweet spot, yet it transitions to a worse state overall at the very edges. The CV1 for me never reaches a level of better than poor for IQ (SDE, resolution, god rays). On the Lenovo with the reduced SDE and increased resolution there is a noticeable improvment in clarity and IQ where it matters. Still not close to perfect but a definite step up over CV1.

The positives on Lenovo MR

Lower SDE
Better resolution
Reduced God rays (only noticeable away from sweet spot)

Negatives are slightly smaller sweetspot.
LCD rather than OLED so black levels are not as good. Though I have noticed no issues and it is as good as any IPS or VA montor screen.

The inside out head tracking works perfectly for me. I have no problems with lag or drift at all. Overall I am happier with the Lenovo than I am with the Rift CV1.

FOV is pretty much identical, or to put it another way, you feel like you are looking through a scuba mask.

 

[Globusdiablo]

I have a Lenovo Mixed Reality HMD and have owned a Rift CV1 in the past (also DK2). Here are some comparisons between CV1 and Lenovo for the lense only while reading in flight menus and text.

The sweetspot on the Lenovo feels smaller than on the Rift but I believe it is a combination of two factors.

1. The sweetspot is indeed slightly smaller

2. It is exaggerated by the fact the Lenovo (and ovbiously any MR HMDs) have a more pronounced transition.

For example

Rift lense transition
< unreadable | unreadable | barely readable...... | barely readable | .....barely readable | unreadable | unreadable >
< ..............................................suffers from god rays accross entire lense................................................... >


Lenovo lense transition
<Blurry mess | unreadable...... | barely readable | easily readable | barely readable | unreadable..... | blurry mess >
< .god rays......................... |............................NO GOD RAYS............................|...........................god rays. >



So I perceive the Lenovo to have a clearer, if slightly smaller sweet spot, yet it transitions to a worse state overall at the very edges. The CV1 for me never reaches a level of better than poor for IQ (SDE, resolution, god rays). On the Lenovo with the reduced SDE and increased resolution there is a noticeable improvment in clarity and IQ where it matters. Still not close to perfect but a definite step up over CV1.

The positives on Lenovo MR

Lower SDE
Better resolution
Reduced God rays (only noticeable away from sweet spot)

Negatives are slightly smaller sweetspot.

The inside out head tracking works perfectly for me. I have no problems with lag or drift at all. Overall I am happier with the Lenovo than I am with the Rift CV1.

FOV is pretty much identical, or to put it another way, you feel like you are looking through a scuba mask.

Awesome write-up. Thanks.

Have you noticed any "odd" in-game behaviour? I read somewhere that a WMRH "malfunctioned" when viewing side panels and using mouse controls.

Edit: What about FPS performance?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I have a Lenovo Mixed Reality HMD and have owned a Rift CV1 in the past (also DK2). Here are some comparisons between CV1 and Lenovo for the lense only while reading in flight menus and text.

The sweetspot on the Lenovo feels smaller than on the Rift but I believe it is a combination of two factors.

1. The sweetspot is indeed slightly smaller

2. It is exaggerated by the fact the Lenovo (and ovbiously any MR HMDs) have a more pronounced transition.

For example

Rift lense transition
< unreadable | unreadable | barely readable...... | barely readable | .....barely readable | unreadable | unreadable >
< ..............................................suffers from god rays accross entire lense................................................... >


Lenovo lense transition
<Blurry mess | unreadable...... | barely readable | easily readable | barely readable | unreadable..... | blurry mess >
< .god rays......................... |............................NO GOD RAYS............................|...........................god rays. >



So I perceive the Lenovo to have a clearer, if slightly smaller sweet spot, yet it transitions to a worse state overall at the very edges. The CV1 for me never reaches a level of better than poor for IQ (SDE, resolution, god rays). On the Lenovo with the reduced SDE and increased resolution there is a noticeable improvment in clarity and IQ where it matters. Still not close to perfect but a definite step up over CV1.

The positives on Lenovo MR

Lower SDE
Better resolution
Reduced God rays (only noticeable away from sweet spot)

Negatives are slightly smaller sweetspot.

The inside out head tracking works perfectly for me. I have no problems with lag or drift at all. Overall I am happier with the Lenovo than I am with the Rift CV1.

FOV is pretty much identical, or to put it another way, you feel like you are looking through a scuba mask.

Hi

whilst i agree the rift is not perfect, are you sure you had it set up correctly? there is no text at all in ED which i cant read, I never have to strain my eyes. and i do not even change my hud colour or use extra super sampling as i only have a gtx 980.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

I read somewhere steamvr always runs on the resolution of the vive. This would explain why some say the clarity is no better than the vive/rift even though it's 1.8 times the resolution.

 

[ICDP]

Hi

whilst i agree the rift is not perfect, are you sure you had it set up correctly? there is no text at all in ED which i cant read, I never have to strain my eyes. and i do not even change my hud colour or use extra super sampling as i only have a gtx 980.

I should reiterate the text was not unreadable in CV1, it was just barely readable. Or I could read it but it was pixelated and SDE made it not as clear as compared to even a 1080p monitor. The Lenovo HMD has a sharper image and less noticeable SDE (note SDE is still there just not as pronounced).

I read somewhere steamvr always runs on the resolution of the vive. This would explain why some say the clarity is no better than the vive/rift even though it's 1.8 times the resolution.

Steam VR is based on OpenVR which will run at the resolution the HMD specifies, not the other way around. This is why for example Pimax 4K is giving higher and sharper resolution than CV1 or Vive in ED.

 

[ICDP]

Awesome write-up. Thanks.

Have you noticed any "odd" in-game behaviour? I read somewhere that a WMRH "malfunctioned" when viewing side panels and using mouse controls.

Edit: What about FPS performance?

I have had to restart the Windows VR Suite a number of times because it lost 6DoF. The software would say boundry lost but I put it down to buggy software rather than the hardware. Headtracking normally works perfectly and compared to CV1 the setup is a breeze.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Steam VR is based on OpenVR which will run at the resolution the HMD specifies, not the other way around. This is why for example Pimax 4K is giving higher and sharper resolution than CV1 or Vive in ED.

I've not seen it tested, but it seemed plausible to me since people reported better clarity in the windows cliffhouse but not in certain games.

 

[ICDP]

Another aspect worth mentioning is headset comfort. Comfort and ease of putting on and removing the HMD is so much better than on CV1. The HMD hinge is a great feature and the strap setup makes finding a comfort level and gettng the HMD to stay on that sweet spot much easier.

Overall I prefer it for it ease of setup, comfort and improved IQ over the Rift CV1, all of which are notioceably better. It should be noted it is more of a version 1.5 compared to a great leap to the next level in VR. I have read people claim it is not that much of an upgrade, but to put it into perspective the CV1 was seen by many (not all) as a significant upgrade over DK2. Yet the Lenovo resolution is a bigger jump again.

DK2
960x1080

CV1
1080x1200

Lenovo MR HMD
1440x1440

The screen is LCD rather than OLED but I have noticed no issues with ghosting or any problems with brightness or black levels.

 

[ICDP]

I've not seen it tested, but it seemed plausible to me since people reported better clarity in the windows cliffhouse but not in certain games.

The games I have tried are all Steam VR games and I have instantly noticed the increased clarity in the Lenovo (within that sweetspot).

Elite Dangerous
DCS
IL2 BoX
Assetto Corsa

By no means is this a large list for which me to claim your information is innacurate, there may be games I have not tested that suffer from the issue you describe.

 

[Globusdiablo]

The games I have tried are all Steam VR games and I have instantly noticed the increased clarity in the Lenovo (within that sweetspot).

Elite Dangerous
DCS
IL2 BoX
Assetto Corsa

By no means is this a large list for which me to claim your information is innacurate, there may be games I have not tested that suffer from the issue you describe.

FPS (frames per second) performance compared to Rift?

 

[ICDP]

I used my CV1 on a 980Ti and a Fury X. I now have an RX Vega 64 and the Lenovo.

So performance is pretty much identical. ~30% faster GPU with a ~25% increase in resolution. Overall I would say I am getting similar or better FPS.

 

[loribee]

I tried the Samsung and I promptly returned it.

It's got a really small sweet-spot, text was illegible for me in Elite and even in the SteamVR Home to some degree - my IPD is 60mm and the Samsung's minimum is 60.4 - although I don't think this was the reason for the text issue.

The SteamVR bridge seems to be rather hit or miss at the moment, hopefully they fix the issues - one annoyance is that the Cliff House needs to be always-on - which takes from resources, and also you need the Fall Creators Update - which broke a ton of stuff in the OS and slowed down performance on my system a few points - not much, but enough to make a difference.

 

[Globusdiablo]

I tried the Samsung and I promptly returned it.

It's got a really small sweet-spot, text was illegible for me in Elite and even in the SteamVR Home to some degree - my IPD is 60mm and the Samsung's minimum is 60.4 - although I don't think this was the reason for the text issue.

The SteamVR bridge seems to be rather hit or miss at the moment, hopefully they fix the issues - one annoyance is that the Cliff House needs to be always-on - which takes from resources, and also you need the Fall Creators Update - which broke a ton of stuff in the OS and slowed down performance on my system a few points - not much, but enough to make a difference.

Hm. So still "teething" issues I suppose.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Yeah, not sure what happened there. I can read elite's text on my rift, the samsung should be way better at that with almost twice the resolution.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Yeah, not sure what happened there. I can read elite's text on my rift, the samsung should be way better at that with almost twice the resolution.

The lack of text integrity in-game was the main reason I sold my Vive. If the WMRHs are just as bad I'll have to wait for the Pimax, or some other future device.

 

[ICDP]

The lack of text integrity in-game was the main reason I sold my Vive. If the WMRHs are just as bad I'll have to wait for the Pimax, or some other future device.

Text is more readable at the centre sweetspot but the periphery is still unreadable. So if text integrity across the entire viewing area is you goal, then WMRH will disappoint.

In most areas the Lenovo is a step up and in some it is a step back, though overall it is a fairly noticeable upgrade over CV1. The only area I would give CV1 the nod to is the wider sweetspot overall.

I have a Pimax 8K on order as a backer, so hoping it is another step up.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Text is more readable at the centre sweetspot but the periphery is still unreadable. So if text integrity across the entire viewing area is you goal, then WMRH will disappoint.

In most areas the Lenovo is a step up and in some it is a step back, though overall it is a fairly noticeable upgrade over CV1. The only area I would give CV1 the nod to is the wider sweetspot overall.

I have a Pimax 8K on order as a backer, so hoping it is another step up.

Mm. I was indeed hoping for a better overall clarity/text. Elite: Dangerous is quite text heavy after all, depending how you play of course, and a "bigger" sweet spot would have been preferable. Ah well, I'll strike those WMRHs off my Christmas list and start saving for the Pimax then.

 

[Pville_Piper]

the Samsung headset doesn't have issues with the sweet spot. I tried both the Lenovo and the Samsung and the Samsung was much better. Text and images were clear from one side of the lens to the other. The reason I chose the Rift over the Samsung was that I had a GTX 970 and the ASW would allow me to run VR without upgrading. Bear in mind that some are having issues with the Steam Beta for Windows MR and others are not.

 

[EvilDuky]

Hi,

I'm new on ED and I've just got a Lenovo explorer. This game is amazing in VR, I like it very much!

But sometimes, I think graphics are too low, for example when I approach to a landing station, there is a lot of aliasing! Inside the ship, everything is clear, I just have to align my head on the text because of the sweet spot.

Have you try ED Profiler to change the details settings? If yes, what are your settings? Thanks [smile]

I have GTX 970 and i5 3570K 3.8@4.2GHz