Economy in Elite Dangerous - What ARE Credits?

[Old Duck]

I've heard people complain that credits don't mean anything because they are too easy to make. I've heard others complain just the opposite. My "complaint", or at the very least a question, is I don't have any sense of what a credit actually is.

For example, it only costs a few dozen credits to get my very large ship repainted once it's been scuffed up. If I were to have my car repainted, it would cost well over $100 USD or more, depending on how professional the work is. I can also fuel up my huge spaceship for less than what it costs to put petrol in my SUV. Repair costs on an almost destroyed "small" ship also costs few credits. All this would make me think that a single credit is worth more than $1, perhaps closer to the British pound or even more.

However, if I take a couple of passengers to a star system close by, they pay me hundreds of thousands of credits (sometimes a million or more) for a flight that takes maybe 30 minutes max. If I want to fly first-class with three other adults to London from New York, it'll cost me about $2000, and that's six some hours in the air, give or take. In this case, the credit feels more like a Russian Ruble.

Credits remind me of Bitcoin - one day a coin will buy a pizza, the next it'll buy a Porsche. Okay, slight exaggeration, but you get my point. I have no sense of what a credit is actually worth, unlike my American dollar, for which I have a very good sense of its value.

I know, it's just a game, but economic consistency would be nice. I'm guessing Eve has economic consistency

 

[Aashenfox]

I've heard people complain that credits don't mean anything because they are too easy to make. I've heard others complain just the opposite. My "complaint", or at the very least a question, is I don't have any sense of what a credit actually is.

For example, it only costs a few dozen credits to get my very large ship repainted once it's been scuffed up. If I were to have my car repainted, it would cost well over $100 USD or more, depending on how professional the work is. I can also fuel up my huge spaceship for less than what it costs to put petrol in my SUV. Repair costs on an almost destroyed "small" ship also costs few credits. All this would make me think that a single credit is worth more than $1, perhaps closer to the British pound or even more.

However, if I take a couple of passengers to a star system close by, they pay me hundreds of thousands of credits (sometimes a million or more) for a flight that takes maybe 30 minutes max. If I want to fly first-class with three other adults to London from New York, it'll cost me about $2000, and that's six some hours in the air, give or take. In this case, the credit feels more like a Russian Ruble.

Credits remind me of Bitcoin - one day a coin will buy a pizza, the next it'll buy a Porsche. Okay, slight exaggeration, but you get my point. I have no sense of what a credit is actually worth, unlike my American dollar, for which I have a very good sense of its value.

I know, it's just a game, but economic consistency would be nice. I'm guessing Eve has economic consistency

If you think of a credit as equivalent to 1000 dollars today, everything sounds about right (an Anaconda costs 180bn dollars), where that starts to fall over is with mission rewards. Who would today pay a billion dollars for a one way trip to the next country (sic: next system)....and I can answer that too, it's because this is a video game where some players entire earnings will be over a period of 40 hours, but even the longest running players in the months of game time, have still only had a fraction of a lifetime's opportunity to make money, so the rewards are equivalently multiplied, that you would amass a 'fortune' in a fraction of a lifetime because even if someone played their whole life, the actual figure in hours, would be significantly less than a lifetime, which is the duration by which we measure the value of things like yachts (sic: spaceships).

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

I've heard people complain that credits don't mean anything because they are too easy to make. I've heard others complain just the opposite. My "complaint", or at the very least a question, is I don't have any sense of what a credit actually is.

For example, it only costs a few dozen credits to get my very large ship repainted once it's been scuffed up. If I were to have my car repainted, it would cost well over $100 USD or more, depending on how professional the work is. I can also fuel up my huge spaceship for less than what it costs to put petrol in my SUV. Repair costs on an almost destroyed "small" ship also costs few credits. All this would make me think that a single credit is worth more than $1, perhaps closer to the British pound or even more.

However, if I take a couple of passengers to a star system close by, they pay me hundreds of thousands of credits (sometimes a million or more) for a flight that takes maybe 30 minutes max. If I want to fly first-class with three other adults to London from New York, it'll cost me about $2000, and that's six some hours in the air, give or take. In this case, the credit feels more like a Russian Ruble.

Credits remind me of Bitcoin - one day a coin will buy a pizza, the next it'll buy a Porsche. Okay, slight exaggeration, but you get my point. I have no sense of what a credit is actually worth, unlike my American dollar, for which I have a very good sense of its value.

I know, it's just a game, but economic consistency would be nice. I'm guessing Eve has economic consistency

I'd theorized in the past that the credit used for interstellar trade was a currency of a higher scale than what would be used on Earth, and the recent release of the ED: RPG (which was made with the cooperation of FDev) had this to say, which seems to bear out my theory:

"The Interstellar Credit (cr) is the universal currency as regulated by the Bank of Zaonce. However, it’s a rather big unit of currency. The approximate value of even a single credit is about $50 in 21st century money. You don’t buy candy bars, meals at fast food restaurants or underwear with credits (unless it’s very nice underwear, of course).

1 cr = 100 mcr = 10,000 u
1 credit (cr) is 100 micro-credits (mcr)
1 micro-credit (mcr) is 100 units (u)
1 credit (cr) is 10,000 units (u)

The Micro-Credit (mcr) is used for civilian-sized purchases. There are 100 micro-credits to the credit. A micro-credit is about 50 cents in today’s currency. The Unit (u) is small change, with a hundred units to the micro-credit. A Unit is worth a half cent and is generally used only in the child economy or as a
rounding fraction to calculate interest. Most adults never consciously use it.

Starting characters, such as spaceship owners, therefore begin the game quite wealthy. Unless the GM is being particularly pedantic or has robbed you of cash you probably don’t need to keep track of things such as buying drinks or food, staying at a hotel or other frivolous purchases."

-Elite Dangerous Role Playing game, page 98.

This would make a Sidewinder cost several millions in USD, and a Cutter about 39.5 billion.

 

[Leadfoot]

Ah-hem....
http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Triganic_Pu

The Triganic Pu is a unit of galactic currency, with an exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu. This is simple enough, but, since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change.

You're welcome.

 

[Jenner]

Credits are a convenient way gate content and provide a sense of reward and accomplishment to routine game tasks.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

One thing I sometimes ponder is how supply and demand economy will change the world. I mean imagine if tomorrow we opened up asteroid mining safely and efficiently. Water, minerals, metals would all crash and be available in hundreds of thousands of tonnes.

Similarly if orbital farms became a major thing, suddenly food prices dive as things are now readily available.
Add in living, commercial and industrial space in space-stations. Prices for those types of land and buildings decrease.
However, in the Elite universe obviously there's been a huge exponential resurgence in population growth over 1000 years once we got the space and resources to expand past Earth. Certain things are now rare that were previously not rare and so on due to vastly increased demands.

As such without developer/lore specialists its impossible to convert/compare to todays currency as we have no reference point. Some people have related it with Gold or Corn or whatever but as above if you change supply it will lower prices.


Yes there's inconsistencies especially with costs vs payouts also added in for gameplay purposes, some can be explained away such as the passenger missions paying so high because pilots federation ranking is special and incurs a much higher degree of confidence in the pilot to get the passenger there safely and efficiently.... Also possibly because of the cabins we use, most passengers go in cryopods but we have cabins so I'd imagine we are the equivalent of a private plane for these super-rich passengers, even refugees sometimes are rich
It falls down if you poke too many holes in it but works to suspend disbelief even if its a bit tenuous.

 

[Riverside]

The value of the Credit now is a good indicator of the directions in which the game has been pulled since release. At release, a combat bond was worth 300Cr, running costs were high and exploration & mission value was low, A-B trading hasn't changed as much.

It made more sense in 1.0 I think.

 

[Old Duck]

I'd theorized in the past that the credit used for interstellar trade was a currency of a higher scale than what would be used on Earth, and the recent release of the ED: RPG (which was made with the cooperation of FDev) had this to say, which seems to bear out my theory:

"The Interstellar Credit (cr) is the universal currency as regulated by the Bank of Zaonce. However, it’s a rather big unit of currency. The approximate value of even a single credit is about $50 in 21st century money. You don’t buy candy bars, meals at fast food restaurants or underwear with credits (unless it’s very nice underwear, of course).

1 cr = 100 mcr = 10,000 u
1 credit (cr) is 100 micro-credits (mcr)
1 micro-credit (mcr) is 100 units (u)
1 credit (cr) is 10,000 units (u)

The Micro-Credit (mcr) is used for civilian-sized purchases. There are 100 micro-credits to the credit. A micro-credit is about 50 cents in today’s currency. The Unit (u) is small change, with a hundred units to the micro-credit. A Unit is worth a half cent and is generally used only in the child economy or as a
rounding fraction to calculate interest. Most adults never consciously use it.

Starting characters, such as spaceship owners, therefore begin the game quite wealthy. Unless the GM is being particularly pedantic or has robbed you of cash you probably don’t need to keep track of things such as buying drinks or food, staying at a hotel or other frivolous purchases."

-Elite Dangerous Role Playing game, page 98.

This would make a Sidewinder cost several millions in USD, and a Cutter about 39.5 billion.

Very interesting.. I might have to get this book, even though I don't have anyone local to play the roleplaying game with. It sounds like a valuable resource for the video game as well

 

[Sylveria]

Credits are a convenient way gate content and provide a sense of reward and accomplishment to routine game tasks.

^ This.

 

[Stealthie]

Does kind of make you wonder.

I mean, you can buy a Cobra for Cr300k, a Dolphin for Cr1.3m and an AspX for Cr5m and there are still people paying Cr10m for a single 1-way journey?
That's kind of like the Steam Packet charging £30,000 for a ticket to the Isle of Man when you could buy a perfectly decent boat of your own for the same price.

I guess some of the inconsistencies might be due to changes in the way things are done in the future.
I mean, maybe getting your ship re-painted is dirt-cheap because there's a machine that can do it automatically and it requires no skill or effort, for example?

 

[Aashenfox]

Does kind of make you wonder.

I mean, you can buy a Cobra for Cr300k, a Dolphin for Cr1.3m and an AspX for Cr5m and there are still people paying Cr10m for a single 1-way journey?
That's kind of like the Steam Packet charging £30,000 for a ticket to the Isle of Man when you could buy a perfectly decent boat of your own for the same price.

I guess some of the inconsistencies might be due to changes in the way things are done in the future.
I mean, maybe getting your ship re-painted is dirt-cheap because there's a machine that can do it automatically and it requires no skill or effort, for example?

The price of a ship is less than half it's cost, and that assumes you can both fly AND defend yourself. Nah, safer to pay a fortune to a member of the pilot's federation that can't fly or defend himself instead. lol

 

[Sylveria]

Does kind of make you wonder.

I mean, you can buy a Cobra for Cr300k, a Dolphin for Cr1.3m and an AspX for Cr5m and there are still people paying Cr10m for a single 1-way journey?
That's kind of like the Steam Packet charging £30,000 for a ticket to the Isle of Man when you could buy a perfectly decent boat of your own for the same price.

I guess some of the inconsistencies might be due to changes in the way things are done in the future.
I mean, maybe getting your ship re-painted is dirt-cheap because there's a machine that can do it automatically and it requires no skill or effort, for example?

I get the point you're trying to make but.. in reality, not everyone is a pilot or has a pilot. That's why there's a premium added onto the trip price- as well as the cost of the ship itself. Then tack in fuel, maintenance costs, etc.

If you're going to apply it as a "real world example" you need to factor in all the variables. It's not just the cost of a ship you're looking at here. People who buy this game do so because they have some interest in "piloting" ships- perhaps forgetting that not everyone out there doesn't want to be a pilot or has any interest in it...

That's your passengers.

Are the credit applications completely realistic? No, but it's a video game, and there's also many other factors to consider (some passengers pay more because they don't want to be scanned/avoiding authorities, etc.) as well.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Schmack]

I find it amusing that the insurance rates don't change as you file more and more claims.

Credits are like the bitcoin, they are in the bubble and about to pop.

But yes, outside of the obvious gate to content, they are a way to feel smug in your wealth, to separate citizen classes (as much as we pretend we all want to be the same, we really show that we want to stand out), a reason to complete a task.

Who here would haul passengers to Colonia for nothing? I mean no notoriety, no rank, nothing. I wouldn't. In fact, I've yet to see any passenger missions to Colonia. I'd like to take a few if they existed.

 

[verminstar]

A simple answer to a simple question of what are credits...a means to an end nothing more special than that ^

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

Very interesting.. I might have to get this book, even though I don't have anyone local to play the roleplaying game with. It sounds like a valuable resource for the video game as well

It's great for setting, but they "simplified for tabletop gamers" the whole matter of ships and outfitting. I get it that gamers may not want to sit down and do the math themselves, but it grates on me a bit that they disregard module and ship weight. If you have a 5A FSD, it'll jump you exactly as far in an otherwise E-rated Diamondback as it will in an A-rated Asp Explorer.

Our GM says he's going to house-rule that part and use Coriolis.io. ^.^

 

[Leo Sagan]

Credits were supposed to be a convenient way gate content and provide a sense of reward and accomplishment to routine game tasks.

There, fixed it for you.

 

[galahad2069]

I'd theorized in the past that the credit used for interstellar trade was a currency of a higher scale than what would be used on Earth, and the recent release of the ED: RPG (which was made with the cooperation of FDev) had this to say, which seems to bear out my theory:

"The Interstellar Credit (cr) is the universal currency as regulated by the Bank of Zaonce. However, it’s a rather big unit of currency. The approximate value of even a single credit is about $50 in 21st century money. You don’t buy candy bars, meals at fast food restaurants or underwear with credits (unless it’s very nice underwear, of course).

1 cr = 100 mcr = 10,000 u
1 credit (cr) is 100 micro-credits (mcr)
1 micro-credit (mcr) is 100 units (u)
1 credit (cr) is 10,000 units (u)

The Micro-Credit (mcr) is used for civilian-sized purchases. There are 100 micro-credits to the credit. A micro-credit is about 50 cents in today’s currency. The Unit (u) is small change, with a hundred units to the micro-credit. A Unit is worth a half cent and is generally used only in the child economy or as a
rounding fraction to calculate interest. Most adults never consciously use it.

Starting characters, such as spaceship owners, therefore begin the game quite wealthy. Unless the GM is being particularly pedantic or has robbed you of cash you probably don’t need to keep track of things such as buying drinks or food, staying at a hotel or other frivolous purchases."

-Elite Dangerous Role Playing game, page 98.

This would make a Sidewinder cost several millions in USD, and a Cutter about 39.5 billion.

No matter how much USD is a credit worth, no passenger in their right mind would ever pay 1 million credits for a sightseeing trip, if they could purchase a shiny new ship for a tiny fraction of that cost.

It's like paying the taxi driver 500,000 USD for a 3 mile trip.

 

[Duderama]

Never gets old: https://youtu.be/bosSsgzgenA

thats how the price for a passenger mission is being negotatied

 

[Old Duck]

No matter how much USD is a credit worth, no passenger in their right mind would ever pay 1 million credits for a sightseeing trip, if they could purchase a shiny new ship for a tiny fraction of that cost.

It's like paying the taxi driver 500,000 USD for a 3 mile trip.

Agreed. For a million credits, these sightseers could buy their own ship AND hire a dedicated chauffeur! I wish some rich dude would offer me a million dollars to drive him around in my modest SUV for the day; I'd be playing Elite in VR then

Now I would expect rich people in the burning stations to be cutting line and saying, "Here's a million credits if you get me off this burning station NOW!" Instead they offer me peanuts and insist I drag their space junk along with me.

Gameplay blah blah blah.....

 

[Ben Ryder]

Credits Crs are closely linked to JPs or Joy Points

Players expend JPs per hour even though the credit balance may remain vary

A constant rate of credits is needed to maintain JPs

Should the CR rate slow or drop, less JPs are accumulated.

If the deficit or loss of JPs drop below the OL2F barrier (also known as the Open Letter to Fdev) FS (forum salt) accumulates at an exponential ratio.

To restore JP and reduce FS a work around or objective exploit is required to inject CR back in to the system. The YrU<> argument often found in Steam and hot air.

An out come of restoring JP and the reduction in FS by CR injection and the consequent YrU<> argument is the risk of some players being Over Joyed; when CR and JP have reached a point of diminishing returns and residual FS salt remains.This is known an Sandbox End Game Thinking. Players try and avoid getting too Up-SEGT.

Its just like in the movies. Price of Popcorn to content.

A field study was carried out the Friendly Advice Gnomes of this and other forums proved all of the above woudl lead to moar salt, coal and orange in your stocking this holiday.

Here is a chart.

Spoiler