Star Citizen Discussions v7

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well they couldn't use lumberyard it's free....

What was Coutts thinking, i bet they have a uber gamming machine in the board room

Lumberyard is not free. It has EULA, which has lineup of points which voids any license and free usage and CIG most likely have triggered lots of them.

It also requires basically tie your network structure to Amazon.

 

[1500]

As I recall it was a short-term loan to get over some currency exchange issues (presumably that the bulk of costs are in GBP and the majority of backer money is in USD in the United States or possibly in offshore investments).

It was a payday loan.

 

[TenakaFurey]

I would imagine they just looked at the useful stuff - leases, assets, that tax rebate etc - for working out their bottom line. It only takes 30 on google to realise SC itself is a dumpster fire.

They probably got someone in to assess its worth.

Whether CIG are in any trouble over it depends on..

1. Has the loan been repaid?
2. The contract they signed
3. What they told Coutts

I don't think the loan has been repaid and I doubt Coutts would have secured a loan against property that was the potential target of an IP dispute.

But who knows for sure?

 

[DLewth]

It was a payday loan.

Which begs the question, why is it still outstanding 6 months later? What payday are we waiting for?

 

[TenakaFurey]

Well at the end of the day somehow i hope someone picks up the pieces, what ever form that takes it's hard to see now, all the good things that could have been done with that kind of cash.

I still cannot see anyone picking this game up.

Too much left to do with huge running costs and a niche market that is rapidly filling up with competing products.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If things all go completely to pot - I'm going to put a bid on the Star Citizen naming rights and put it out as a ZX Spectrum game

 

[DLewth]

They probably got someone in to assess its worth.

Whether CIG are in any trouble over it depends on..

1. Has the loan been repaid?
2. The contract they signed
3. What they told Coutts

I don't think the loan has been repaid and I doubt Coutts would have secured a loan against property that was the potential target of an IP dispute.

But who knows for sure?

I suspect they just didn't want some new company popping up, buying the IP for a dollar, then hiring all the staff and leaving a now worthless F42 to default on the loan. They probably looked at all the SC shell companies and immediately declared Shenanigans.

If things all go completely to pot - I'm going to put a bid on the Star Citizen naming rights and put it out as a ZX Spectrum game

If you do, I'm up for a few pints of crowdfunding.

 

[PiLhEaD]

I just popped over to the charge filing at CH and went through the list again, and sure enough...

What I find most interesting about the loan registered at CH is its 'Status: Outstanding', which seems rather to suggest that the loan is still in place.

I read 4.1.5 differently, and as being the software outcome of the tools - aka the game's 'exe'.

4.1.10 seems the key clause wrt Crytek licenses: 'the benefit of all licenses, consents and authorisations... held by Chargor [Foundary 42] in connection with its business...'

 

[GuruNot]

It was a payday loan.

I hope not at 1,295% APR

 

[1500]

Thanks to Magnaflux in the SA thread who dug it up. An old leak from TheAgent. Kind of explains how CIG operates with their partners.

TheAgent posted:
quote:
AMD dude who is part the AMD game promo thing posted:

We're partnered with them [CIG], of course. We are. It's four months before E3 and we're getting our PC showcase set up. We're reaching out to get demos, sizzle reels, all kinds of different promo stuff. We hear back from a lot of people; there's some new stuff, new games, new partners, all that. Absent is a response from CIG.

Someone else here handles all that, she's calling and calling thinking there's some mistake or she's not getting through to the right people. It's now three months until the PC Gamer showcase and there's nothing on the table from CIG. She's trying to set up a conf call or a face to face with CIG and there's nothing solid set up.

She finally talks to someone over there and is assured we'll get a slice of scripted gameplay and some cutscene stuff with the big name A listers on the project. E3 is what, six weeks away? Maybe seven at this point.

A week later what we get a package with a disc, no explanation, table of contents, nothing. On it, there's nothing new, [its] a mashup of all their previous trailers. It's not even cut differently. We have the Hamil one, the Oldman speech, some fighters shooting things and some FPS segments that were lifted straight out of the last con they did. They're all just dumped into a "Promo" folder on a blu-ray.

She's thinking this is a mistake, they sent us the wrong material -- easy mistake to make, you throw in an old disc instead of the one you just cut, it got handled differently, an intern misunderstood what we wanted, whatever. So she calls them up again, no response, emails, nothing.

Two weeks later we get what is referred to around here as the "Letter." Capital "L" letter. The email is addressed to everyone high up at AMD, not even the gaming guys but the chip designers and the heads of departments. The PDF attachment is a rambling statement from Chris about how we're pushing him into something he doesn't think is necessary, he has a vision and that it's "too important" to be disrespected like this.

The decision was made to drop them from the show after that. Probably from our partnership as well, but that's above my head.

 

[PiLhEaD]

If things all go completely to pot - I'm going to put a bid on the Star Citizen naming rights and put it out as a ZX Spectrum game

I'll snipe you on ebay and build a jpeg collecting and trading game for mobile devices.

See you in the Bahamas!

 

[Ian Skippy]

Which begs the question, why is it still outstanding 6 months later? What payday are we waiting for?

Some tax return. No expert on it, but I wouldnt be surprised if that can actually take a while.

 

[Cosmo]

CIG's UK studio actually doesn't fully qualify for a tax rebate. See here.

 

[DLewth]

What I find most interesting about the loan registered at CH is its 'Status: Outstanding', which seems rather to suggest that the loan is still in place.

I read 4.1.5 differently, and as being the software outcome of the tools - aka the game's 'exe'.

4.1.10 seems the key clause wrt Crytek licenses: 'the benefit of all licenses, consents and authorisations... held by Chargor [Foundary 42] in connection with its business...'

I would have though the engine was a large part of that, though...

Re the "outstanding" nature: I dug out Ortwin's reply at the time which includes:

Our UK companies are entitled to a Government Game tax credit rebate which we earn every month on the Squadron 42 development. These rebates are payable by the UK Government in the fall of the next following year when we file our tax returns.
...
Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment

Well, fall has come and gone. So why is it still there?

 

[Ian Skippy]

CIG's UK studio actually doesn't fully qualify for a tax rebate. See here.

That better be not true...

Well, fall has come and gone. So why is it still there?

Dont they mean fall 2018?

 

[DLewth]

Dont they mean fall 2018?

Well, for this year. But I was under the impression they've been doing this for a while...

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well, for this year. But I was under the impression they've been doing this for a while...

Yeah, but I think they already spend the money of this year in advance, and took the loan for the payment of next year, on the assumption they'll get it.

 

[DLewth]

Yeah, but I think they already spend the money of this year in advance, and took the loan for the payment of next year, on the assumption they'll get it.

I suspect you're right. I just checked the returns for last year and the tax credit "has been and remains an important factor in the business", so they are getting it, they're just spending right away.

Maybe they repaid half or something..?

I'm so glad they put that bit in the pledge about being open about their finances.

 

[PiLhEaD]

It is interesting if the tax rebate is in fall 2018, as this gives Coutts exposure to a possible default that is actually for a longer period of time than may feel comfortable with, given recent events. At the very least it's reasonable that Coutts will seek additional 'assurances' from CIG.

Does HMG give tax rebates to bankrupt companies, or the administrators/liquidators of same? If they do I can't imagine they would give a full rebate... ...where's a tax lawyer when you need one... ...and there's a line I never thought I'd type.

 

[Ian Skippy]

It is interesting if the tax rebate is in fall 2018, as this gives Coutts exposure to a possible default that is actually for a longer period of time than may feel comfortable with, given recent events. At the very least it's reasonable that Coutts will seek additional 'assurances' from CIG.

Does HMG give tax rebates to bankrupt companies, or the administrators/liquidators of same? If they do I can't imagine they would give a full rebate... ...where's a tax lawyer when you need one... ...and there's a line I never thought I'd type.

*not an expert on UK law, but worked for dutch IRS*

Normally, if a company was due a rebate over year X, but goes bankrupt after year X but before the payout, the money is still being paid to whomever took over the remains. That is money the government still owes to someone.