Astronomy / Space Dark matter proof or concept?

[insanephoton]

Is it at all possible that our current understanding of gravity could be wrong? Can the properties of gravity be altered to explain away the existence of dark matter?

That is the possibility that the alternative theories use. So far none of them quite manage to explain everything, but neither does dark matter.

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070802_darkmatter.htm

In fact in a recent edition of New Scientist there was an interview with Mordehai Milgrom (the leading proponent of MoND theory) in which he suggested it was time to give up on dark matter. He suggests that applying Tensor-Vector-Scalar gravity theory allows it to work with General Relativity and can explain things like gravitational lensing.

So the state of play at the moment is that dark matter/dark energy is the popular theory, but alternative theories exist.

 

[Enride]

That is the possibility that the alternative theories use. So far none of them quite manage to explain everything, but neither does dark matter.

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070802_darkmatter.htm

In fact in a recent edition of New Scientist there was an interview with Mordehai Milgrom (the leading proponent of MoND theory) in which he suggested it was time to give up on dark matter. He suggests that applying Tensor-Vector-Scalar gravity theory allows it to work with General Relativity and can explain things like gravitational lensing.

So the state of play at the moment is that dark matter/dark energy is the popular theory, but alternative theories exist.

So then there is in no "proof" of its existence yet?
"Dark Matter" might then be considered as just a name for an (so far) unexplained phenomena in universal gravity.

This was my initial question, if there was any concrete proof of actual dark matter. As antimatter, for example, that can be created and recreated in labratories.

My mind is blown time and time again by these things but yet I cant stop reading about it!

 

[Cody]

An article of interest (beyond my ken, of course).

 

[JeffRyan]

So then there is in no "proof" of its existence yet?
"Dark Matter" might then be considered as just a name for an (so far) unexplained phenomena in universal gravity.

This was my initial question, if there was any concrete proof of actual dark matter. As antimatter, for example, that can be created and recreated in labratories.

My mind is blown time and time again by these things but yet I cant stop reading about it!

There are always alternative theories but the weight of evidence at this point is still pointing towards dark matter. So in that sense it's beyond the concept stage and in the 'much more likely than not' stage.

 

[Hydrino]

Thanks

Ive listend to/seen alot with mr Krauss and for the mostpart i enjoy it, but imo he has a tendency to often just state that things are a "fact" without trying to explain them.
Granted, you cant always go into details on everything needed to understand a certain subject, but even if i dont understand everything I DO want those details.

Seems like a lot of physicists are mystics that believe matter pops out of nothing and electrons are just math and exist in multiple states at once. You get to grad school and throw cause and effect right out the window.

I never understood this. The central mysteries of QM are all measurement problems. They are starting to be chipped away at with the latest tech and things like penning traps and tracking electrons through super fluid helium and confirmations of pilot wave theory in fluids. Lots of physicists have tried to come up with solutions and of course the most famous to disagree with all the fantasy was Einstein (but even Dirac said the mystical solutions were just placeholders, although not loudly or often). Other 'cranks' include Roger Penrose.

Don't trust anyone that tells you the moon doesn't exist when you don't look and that Schrödinger's cat really is both dead and alive. That is just ridiculous nonsense flowing from accepting 100 year old measurement techniques have not improved and that math is reality instead of a model of reality.

It might be completely wrong but Randall Mills has a physical solution to dark matter and validation by multiple respected Universities and researchers that his experiments are replicable and show exactly what he claims. It is a more tightly bound hydrogen atom that is non-reactive.

 

[Thargon]

Is it at all possible that our current understanding of gravity could be wrong? Can the properties of gravity be altered to explain away the existence of dark matter?

That's what MOND theory is about - it's a correction to newtonian gravity to adjust for this missing matter problem.

My guess is it's something like this. I find it really counter-intuitive to need to invent something to fit the observations, when it may be that the laws we hold to be correct may not be as set in stone as we expect.

 

[metatheurgist]

My guess is it's something like this. I find it really counter-intuitive to need to invent something to fit the observations, when it may be that the laws we hold to be correct may not be as set in stone as we expect.

Um...you just described Science. We see something, we try to explain it.

Some people decide fairies and goblins did it and never change their minds.

The difference is science does the same from a logical and ordered perspective. Theorists try to come with an explanation for something they see - they might even "prove" it mathematically. Experimenters then come up with ingenious ways to actually demonstrate the theory practically. Sometimes when the experiments are done we discover our knowledge may be incomplete - this leads to more theory and an increasing understanding.

Scientists are actually quite happy when you can disprove something (unlike certain other types).

 

[Thargon]

There's one thing trying to explain something, but it's another coming up with completely wild theories that haven't been proven yet.

 

[metatheurgist]

It's all wild theory until someone proves it. Earth moves around the Sun? Preposterous!

 

[Thargon]

It's all wild theory until someone proves it. Earth moves around the Sun? Preposterous!

What are you talking about? Burn the Heretic!

 

[Iskariot]

So then there is in no "proof" of its existence yet?
"Dark Matter" might then be considered as just a name for an (so far) unexplained phenomena in universal gravity.

That is what it is. It is a label for something that turns up in our calculations, but not in our observations of space. There should be more matter, but we cannot account for it. We cannot observe it, hence: dark matter.