Maybe, but either way I think it was pretty lame. I generally liked the movie, but that part really stuck out as needing a bit more explanation. A "short" time in the vacuum of space is sort of relative.
General / Off-Topic SPOILERS ALLOWED Star Wars Last Jedi SPOILERS ALLOWED
- Thread starter Muzz UK
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Maybe, but either way I think it was pretty lame. I generally liked the movie, but that part really stuck out as needing a bit more explanation. A "short" time in the vacuum of space is sort of relative.
I finally saw it at an imax yesterday. Very well done movie. But of course I was disappointed in how the story turned out at the end with Luke gone.
I was ok with Leia floating in vacuum. In the "Hand of Thrawn" duology books by Timothy Zahn, Luke escaped from a busted ship without protection from space using the force in some fashion long enough to enter another ship.
I felt the story shortchanged Luke and Hamil. Like they just wanted to off him, a "b-movie" actor for the sake of the new characters. imo, Rian Johnson seemed to be more of a fan of Han and the falcon and didn't think much of Luke's character. I thought I wouldn't think this, but at this point, I'm kind of relieved JJAbrams will be back for ep. 9 with Disney's shortsighted vision of choice of directors/screenwriters. (yes, Johnson proposed this story to Kennedy and Disney, so the story is mainly on him. ) Now I'm far less motivated to see Rian's new "trilogy" and may skip it entirely.
Snoke's death seemed like a puppet show revealed. Then it seemed like a farce with Kylo and Hux "running" the first order. It almost felt like a bad comedy dream you couldn't wake out of . The "praetorian/imperial" red guards fighting was cool, but seemed like a different ninjato/kung-fu movie, something like a Tarantino parody. i.e. if the guards were so powerful warriors, any of them could be like Kylo and generals of various first order regiments throughout the galaxy. (Maybe they were all rejects, deformed from Snoke's experiments, and only Hux had the "imperial" look even with no combat powers. lol )
So I'm kind of torn. excellent movie, I'd rate it better than ROTJ, because I hated the ewoks running away with the story, but severely disappointed in how TLJ turned out for Luke, and Kylo hadn't sold me on being the new "Supreme Leader", perhaps intentional, so needs more convincing in ep. 9.
I was ok with Leia floating in vacuum. In the "Hand of Thrawn" duology books by Timothy Zahn, Luke escaped from a busted ship without protection from space using the force in some fashion long enough to enter another ship.
I felt the story shortchanged Luke and Hamil. Like they just wanted to off him, a "b-movie" actor for the sake of the new characters. imo, Rian Johnson seemed to be more of a fan of Han and the falcon and didn't think much of Luke's character. I thought I wouldn't think this, but at this point, I'm kind of relieved JJAbrams will be back for ep. 9 with Disney's shortsighted vision of choice of directors/screenwriters. (yes, Johnson proposed this story to Kennedy and Disney, so the story is mainly on him. ) Now I'm far less motivated to see Rian's new "trilogy" and may skip it entirely.
Snoke's death seemed like a puppet show revealed. Then it seemed like a farce with Kylo and Hux "running" the first order. It almost felt like a bad comedy dream you couldn't wake out of . The "praetorian/imperial" red guards fighting was cool, but seemed like a different ninjato/kung-fu movie, something like a Tarantino parody. i.e. if the guards were so powerful warriors, any of them could be like Kylo and generals of various first order regiments throughout the galaxy. (Maybe they were all rejects, deformed from Snoke's experiments, and only Hux had the "imperial" look even with no combat powers. lol )
So I'm kind of torn. excellent movie, I'd rate it better than ROTJ, because I hated the ewoks running away with the story, but severely disappointed in how TLJ turned out for Luke, and Kylo hadn't sold me on being the new "Supreme Leader", perhaps intentional, so needs more convincing in ep. 9.
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Nonsense. Surface vapour boiling away and turning into frost doesn't kill you. The exposure time in vacuum was not too bad and it was high time Leia got to do something else with the force than receiving messages from Luke. I actually quite liked that scene.
They should have had more for her to do though.
I'm sorry to have isolated your comment, I'm not meaning to single you out specifically, and I'm not disagreeing with you ...
BUT ....
The moment your naked (unprotected) body hits the vacuum of space, the air inside your lungs WILL be exhaled and there is no way you can stop it. That alone will kill you. When Baungartner did his jump from the edge of space, the guy on the radio talking to him (I forget his name) did the previously highest jump before Baumgartner, and he had had part of a glove rip. We're not talking exhaling of air, or even loss of fluids, but it severely injured his hand and he had to have doctors treat it when he landed again. So let's not try to hand-wavium it, exposure to space WILL KILL YOU.
As for the force giving you space-suit like protection in the vacuum of space? Absolutely rubbish. Oh, it was used as a plot device in a book that may or may not be regarded as canon? I still say it's bullpoo.
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I thought it was amazing. It was emotional and fresh and hit all the things that make Star Wars the amazing story that it is.
The opening battle reminded me of the epics air raids of WWII. I feel that the original galactic conflict (Alliance vs Empire) was more Roman world domination and subjugation themed. The First Order is certainly more in ideology and blitzkrieg tactics.
I like that it brought more Force mythology to the saga. It delved into the balance and addressing that the hubris and complacency on both ends of light and dark lead to their undoing. It's all about the balance. They really set that up with Rey and Kylo. Especially in the throne room fight that ended up with a force tug of war for Anakins old saber. That image stuck with me. Anakin was the ultimate balance with goodness as he fought during the Clone wars and cared deeply for Padme and Ahsoka, then with darkenss as he became Vader. He was both light and dark, but not at the same time. So his saber being pulled apart by both light and dark felt poignant to me.
I liked the Canto Bight sequence. It was clearly the social commentary of the day with talk of war machine funding and the top 1% running the show and feeding all sides. But having a social commentary is something that makes Star Wars what it is. Look at the original trilogy along side the news stories of that time.
The humor was spot on, with a touch of the same cheese that the orig trilogy brouht. I laughed out loud several times. Favorite moments. Fynn walking around in a squirty bacta suit and BB-8 manually controlling an AT-ST. I'd say that the opening dialogue between Hux and Poe was great. Poor Hux. He tries so hard to get ahead, but gets no respect from anyone.
It's was a great second movie and set us up for a much larger and new glalctic conflict. It's almost like Both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi serve as more of a two-part tail that passes the torch from one generation to the next.
The epic display that Luke shows projecting himself through time and space to manifest his avatar has pure force energy was amazing. I shed a tear as he made his peace with the galaxy and transcended his moral shell to join Yoda, Anakin and Obiwan.
I do think a missed opportunity was to have Anakin talk to him as a force ghost. I know that Yoda would sell more lunch boxes, but I feel that it would have been nice to see that closure of Vaders redemption and teaching Luke more about using his failings to teach. You know lessons learned and all that jazz.
Overall there is a lot of Star Wars to chew on in this movie. I disagree with the general public criticism. As far as I'm concerned most of it is misplaced and garbage, and clearly written by people to who the Star Wars mythology doesn't inspire as much.
Besides if you think the Last Jedi is the worst. You've basically said it's better than Attack of the Clones and you are discredited from further discussion.
I really enjoyed this, but I don have to admit to a pretty big cringe...flying Leia....
The opening battle reminded me of the epics air raids of WWII. I feel that the original galactic conflict (Alliance vs Empire) was more Roman world domination and subjugation themed. The First Order is certainly more in ideology and blitzkrieg tactics.
I like that it brought more Force mythology to the saga. It delved into the balance and addressing that the hubris and complacency on both ends of light and dark lead to their undoing. It's all about the balance. They really set that up with Rey and Kylo. Especially in the throne room fight that ended up with a force tug of war for Anakins old saber. That image stuck with me. Anakin was the ultimate balance with goodness as he fought during the Clone wars and cared deeply for Padme and Ahsoka, then with darkenss as he became Vader. He was both light and dark, but not at the same time. So his saber being pulled apart by both light and dark felt poignant to me.
I liked the Canto Bight sequence. It was clearly the social commentary of the day with talk of war machine funding and the top 1% running the show and feeding all sides. But having a social commentary is something that makes Star Wars what it is. Look at the original trilogy along side the news stories of that time.
The humor was spot on, with a touch of the same cheese that the orig trilogy brouht. I laughed out loud several times. Favorite moments. Fynn walking around in a squirty bacta suit and BB-8 manually controlling an AT-ST. I'd say that the opening dialogue between Hux and Poe was great. Poor Hux. He tries so hard to get ahead, but gets no respect from anyone.
It's was a great second movie and set us up for a much larger and new glalctic conflict. It's almost like Both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi serve as more of a two-part tail that passes the torch from one generation to the next.
The epic display that Luke shows projecting himself through time and space to manifest his avatar has pure force energy was amazing. I shed a tear as he made his peace with the galaxy and transcended his moral shell to join Yoda, Anakin and Obiwan.
I do think a missed opportunity was to have Anakin talk to him as a force ghost. I know that Yoda would sell more lunch boxes, but I feel that it would have been nice to see that closure of Vaders redemption and teaching Luke more about using his failings to teach. You know lessons learned and all that jazz.
Overall there is a lot of Star Wars to chew on in this movie. I disagree with the general public criticism. As far as I'm concerned most of it is misplaced and garbage, and clearly written by people to who the Star Wars mythology doesn't inspire as much.
Besides if you think the Last Jedi is the worst. You've basically said it's better than Attack of the Clones and you are discredited from further discussion.
I really enjoyed this, but I don have to admit to a pretty big cringe...flying Leia....
I agree. I think that the treatment of Luke was really good. Yoda totally calls Luke out that he hasn't really changed since Empire. Luke was a great Master, but just like the old Jedi, he got so wrapped up in himself and how he was this awesome hero, it came crumbling down. Just like the Jedi of the Repubic, he admits. That was way more interesting than everyone's childhood vision of Luke killing everything. Luke moved beyond that, by the end he realized that the Force was indeed "more powerful than you can possible imagine." and he joined Obi-wan, Anakin and Yoda on that higher plane. I really liked the end to his chapter in the saga. I hope we see his force ghost teaching Rey and haunting Kylo.Go back and watch the original trilogy. Luke was always kind of a whiny little beyatch. Grumpy, grizzled old Luke on his island retreat was kind of an attitude improvement in my opinion
Yea it was a weird scene. It didn't really fit with the character. I see what they were trying to do with the instinctual will to survive and she tapped into that "You have this inside you too" to quote Luke from Jedi on Leia's dormant Force sensitivity. It looked pretty dumb.
They already established the ability for people to survive vacuum with the force in Star Wars Rebels when Canan is pushed out an airlock by Vaders inquisitor. Like it or not the animated series is part of canon and actually really good. They established Yoda doing a force projection from Dagobah, just like Luke did.
Dagger, you're too invested to see what they've done to your fave characters. Luke hasn't remained static or come to realise some great truth about the force- the team took a well established male icon and depicted him as bitter, twisted, murderous old tramp. Mary Poppins Leia came about to demonstrate that she's super powerful and got gud with the Force just like her brother. Ray is a Mary Sue by deliberate intent, not because there's any pressing plot or story driven reason for her to be just amazing at everything with absolutely no training or prior experience.
Have you read the old nursery rhyme about sugar and spice? That's the level of care, respect and thought the team have put into this project. The entire gig is a political statement. I can respect your opinion on the humour, that's a subjective thing. I'd have laughed like a drain if Chewie shared his Porg fry with the big eyed money makers, but it might have cost Disney in soft toy sales! But there is no way on Earth you can pretend earlier installments were anything like as blatantly political in nature. (Or even political at all- what news story ran alongside Empire? The shipyard strike in Poland? The West boycotting the Olympics? The Staggers Act deregulating the railways? I'm not seeing much connection with ice planet battles or flying mines!)
That wouldn't matter quite so much if they'd treated the established characters with a bit of respect, but the current fashion is to denigrate and destroy previous work. It's not enough for Luke to bow out gracefully, he has to be shown to be a weak, self pitying, potentially murderous failure, his potential utterly unrealised. The trap is even worse for Leia; she has to be demonstrated to be more and better than her brother, but a team utterly bereft of ideas beyond their own real world ideology couldn't come up with anything better than making her look like Supergirl's gran!
It's interesting that you come up with the notion that the First Order have any kind of ideology or tactics- where did you take that from? There is absolutely no hint of what they believe in either movie, nor do they show any kind of tactic beyond rocking up and mudering everything. But if they're N*S*D*P it's ok to punch them, I suppose... amIright?
Have you read the old nursery rhyme about sugar and spice? That's the level of care, respect and thought the team have put into this project. The entire gig is a political statement. I can respect your opinion on the humour, that's a subjective thing. I'd have laughed like a drain if Chewie shared his Porg fry with the big eyed money makers, but it might have cost Disney in soft toy sales! But there is no way on Earth you can pretend earlier installments were anything like as blatantly political in nature. (Or even political at all- what news story ran alongside Empire? The shipyard strike in Poland? The West boycotting the Olympics? The Staggers Act deregulating the railways? I'm not seeing much connection with ice planet battles or flying mines!)
That wouldn't matter quite so much if they'd treated the established characters with a bit of respect, but the current fashion is to denigrate and destroy previous work. It's not enough for Luke to bow out gracefully, he has to be shown to be a weak, self pitying, potentially murderous failure, his potential utterly unrealised. The trap is even worse for Leia; she has to be demonstrated to be more and better than her brother, but a team utterly bereft of ideas beyond their own real world ideology couldn't come up with anything better than making her look like Supergirl's gran!
It's interesting that you come up with the notion that the First Order have any kind of ideology or tactics- where did you take that from? There is absolutely no hint of what they believe in either movie, nor do they show any kind of tactic beyond rocking up and mudering everything. But if they're N*S*D*P it's ok to punch them, I suppose... amIright?
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yes, my post got auto edited so totally sounds wierd. I see your point of view, but I disagree about Luke. I think his story ended well, although I hoping to see more. The First Order are more akin to The 3rd Reich. I’ve also read several of the filler books that are official canon so I had a little more info to work with.Dagger, you're too invested to see what they've done to your fave characters. Luke hasn't remained static or come to realise some great truth about the force- the team took a well established male icon and depicted him as bitter, twisted, murderous old tramp. Mary Poppins Leia came about to demonstrate that she's super powerful and got gud with the Force just like her brother. Ray is a Mary Sue by deliberate intent, not because there's any pressing plot or story driven reason for her to be just amazing at everything with absolutely no training or prior experience.
Have you read the old nursery rhyme about sugar and spice? That's the level of care, respect and thought the team have put into this project. The entire gig is a political statement. I can respect your opinion on the humour, that's a subjective thing. I'd have laughed like a drain if Chewie shared his Porg fry with the big eyed money makers, but it might have cost Disney in soft toy sales! But there is no way on Earth you can pretend earlier installments were anything like as blatantly political in nature. (Or even political at all- what news story ran alongside Empire? The shipyard strike in Poland? The West boycotting the Olympics? The Staggers Act deregulating the railways? I'm not seeing much connection with ice planet battles or flying mines!)
That wouldn't matter quite so much if they'd treated the established characters with a bit of respect, but the current fashion is to denigrate and destroy previous work. It's not enough for Luke to bow out gracefully, he has to be shown to be a weak, self pitying, potentially murderous failure, his potential utterly unrealised. The trap is even worse for Leia; she has to be demonstrated to be more and better than her brother, but a team utterly bereft of ideas beyond their own real world ideology couldn't come up with anything better than making her look like Supergirl's gran!
It's interesting that you come up with the notion that the First Order have any kind of ideology or tactics- where did you take that from? There is absolutely no hint of what they believe in either movie, nor do they show any kind of tactic beyond rocking up and mudering everything. But if they're N*S*D*P it's ok to punch them, I suppose... amIright?
I’m not as invested as others...I hate how we were given Anakins story in the prequels. So depressing.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
(For realsies: I continue to be utterly fascinated by how people react so extremely differently to this movie.)
[video=youtube;RwhLCFR5NJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwhLCFR5NJc[/video]
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
(For realsies: I continue to be utterly fascinated by how people react so extremely differently to this movie.)
It is just the sign of the times. We have Trump as leader of the free world, and we have what we have with Star Wars and Star trek as they now are. When people completely misplace comprehension of these types of changes, that is no fault of their own. There has been a 100% 'false news' effort to ensure we forget the actual place and theme of the original films, what they were telling us and why. So we are where we are, and most people find themselves floundering around in general knee-jerk confusion. Is up still up, down still down?
I became a Star Wars fan after seeing the original on TV and Empire and Jedi (and Episode 1, my last 'Star Wars' at-the-movies experience; it was dead at that point) in the cinema.
The strong themes of what is right (Light Side of the force, Yoda's 'wisdom' etc) and wrong (Dark Side of the force, a tyrannical and genocidal Empire (modelled on the 3rd Reich etc)) are completely obvious and clear, even to the 10 year old i was at the time. The story that was told was a moral story about the power of tyranny and the just struggle of people against it. But the nuances in that struggle were important, simply becoming a tyrant yourself was not an option.
But that is all dead stuff now. Power is the new force for good. The lines between what were the 'hated' Empire have been blurred, not just in the films but in the merchandising also, what was to be hated is now much more cool (see the transition in the video games also) and 'acceptable'. Anger is fine, to be exploited even. Everything has been put on it's head. Yoda the 'warrior' is now the 'real' yoda, the guru of peace and calm and wisdom is no longer needed.
And it all makes perfect sense. The 'culture' we create (speaking entertainment here) is just a reflection of our society, and as i already mentioned, we have Trump as leader of the free-world. So we have the reversal we see in Star Wars (and Star Trek). They may continue to purport that the good side is still that, but it is obvious there has been a shift, and those clear messages about 'right' and 'wrong' we had in the original films (for both SW and ST) are now not so clear.
Star Wars that was, is now dead. As dead as it could ever be, and worse there is no clear obvious way back, it is that damaged (as are 'we').
RIP Star Wars.
I've posted that one already, but it's indeed so good that it can't hurt bringing it up again.
"Force-Facetiming"
"Luuke, Luuuke" (I did NOT know about that crap, jesus...)
"And after the fight, Like fades away like a hot fart."
And yeah, the books may have had Luke fly in vacuum, but he was a power-user of the force. Leia was force-sensitive, but had no real powers. Suddenly she's a god.
I'm still trying to decide whether Bill's outrage was real, or feigned in order to stir things up.
Exposure to vacuum isn't nearly as dramatic as you seem to think. An overpressure of one atmosphere doesn't rupture your lungs. That's a bit like saying that diving to 10m depth would crush you (same pressure difference).
Interesting, but I am fairly sure that if I'm standing on the bridge of a spaceship, that then gets a direct hit from another ship's weapons, and I'm wearing an oxygen mask (to simulate the Force protecting me - also note, no actual oxygen, just the mask) I'm still dead the moment I hit vacuum.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
(For realsies: I continue to be utterly fascinated by how people react so extremely differently to this movie.)
It did leave some social conservatives pretty triggered. [yesnod]