Flipping mission boards

Hi Everyone.

Straight off the bat, Any Fdev Moderators can you confirm if logging in/out of different instances (open/Group/Solo) to get more missions of the type the player is looking for is classed as an exploit or just frowned upon by certain members of the Elite Dangerous community (The Immersioneers), As i see it and a lot of others it is a valid way to play. To use your own words 'Blaze your own trail'.

As there is no penalty to this type of gameplay apart from eventually it will go dry for a time then the boards start spawning the required missions again.

I'm asking this as a few people who stream ED use this method and other people are entering the stremers chat and being obnoxious about thier method of gameplay so a clarification on this 'issue' would be lovely.

Thankyou.

If this has already been answered can you point me in the correct direction.
 
It's been in the game for years. Frontier knows, but doesn't care enough to act, so...
[video=youtube;ZXsQAXx_ao0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0[/video]
 
Last edited:
I use it every single time I go into the board looking for missions. If you prefer types like Pirate Lord Assassination Missions like I do lately, board flipping in the only way to get more than a couple in one go.

I try not to leave a port with less than 5, and prefer 7 or 8 in my Transaction menu before I head out.

You would never normally be able to get access to that many if you just took what was on offer the first time you checked. Often times, these particular missions are not even available without flipping back and forth a couple of times.

Would be nice if they were just there to be taken without having to resort to this kind of hoop jumping, but that ain't the way the game works at the moment.

And to answer your question... YES! Board flipping absolutely DOES make a difference.
 
Last edited:
Do it all you like, but Don't complain that you are getting bored.
Why? Forcing yourself to take the slow road isn't any more exciting than not taking the slow road. It's self-generated content which is really no content at all.

Instead, there should be more chained missions that mean something other than more Cr in your pocket. A reward of a module you can only get from certain missions, or perhaps even a ship that requires you complete a chain of missions before you receive it. When you make Admiral, you should get a ship, not just the ability to buy one. People stack missions because A: they are stackable and B: there's simply not enough time in one person's life to do anything in the game 1 mission at a time. Flying around to find a station that has enough missions to fill your 20 mission cache isn't any different than relogging. You're still looking for the fastest way to get to the end of your game.

There needs to be better carrots on the sticks we chase, because otherwise we just keep resetting the chase until we find a chase we agree with.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I avoid doing this, but I'll admit when I was near the finish line for the Cutter grind I just couldn't help it (I might have done it 3 or 4 times over the last two ranks). I kind of regret it however and I don't want to do it again. I'd love Frontier to come up with a better solution for sparse mission boards for sure. The game is more fun if you are patient but I can understand why the game at times would stretch your patience as it did mine. Waiting is hard, especially when the end is in sight.
 
Don't do it myself, but not going to judge others.

The reasons I don't do it are:

(1) doesn't seem like an intended game mechanic (or even a form of gameplay).
(2) would break the immersion for me (yes, I'm one of those immersion freaks).
(3) changing modes repeatedly just strikes me as work instead of fun. I'd rather fly to another station.
 
I do used to do it sporadically, now i do it regularly, just once though, but I do it i.e solo->open or vice versa.

Reason I do it is:
- In 2.3 mission generation was changed... where a faction may be offering 8 missions on the board, they had 20-odd generated in the background. If you accepted and abandoned missions you didn't want (for the associated rep hit), new missions would spawn in their place. This was, imo, a fair and reasonable system, with a fair cost associated with it (being loss of rep; agent getting annoyed at offering me missions and saying "No thanks, got something else?")
- In 2.4 FD changed it so all of those missions (or something approximating that) would appear. This meant, depending on a system's faction count, you could have anywhere from 20-40 missions on the board. This was great, and I never needed to board flip, except when this happened. Somewhat sadly, those missions are now constrained only to Tourism economies. It was the best state for missions
- Sadly, the change didn't stick. The volume of mission generation in 2.4 Live was too large, and so it was cut back to numbers more closely resembling. *unfortunately* this change also removed (whether intentionally or not; I never saw an announcement about this) the ability to churn missions like in 2.3. This meant the only option to get a decent set of missions to work on

- (not really a reason, but) I've made the suggestion elsewhere that agents should offer mission categories, and then you get offered a randomly generated mission (or maybe, a set of three options). If you don't like it (destination, content, rewards, whatever), you can request a new one (or set), but it costs you a minor rep hit. This would fix a lot of issues with the mission boards for everyone, mission stackers (on the surface it might seem like a nerf, but it's actually a boost), BGS runners, "casual" mission runners, rep grinders, you name it.

These days, a lot of mission boards for some reason, in my experience, spam salvage missions. So much salvage spam. Sometimes I'm in the mood and have the time for these (often I avoid them because the "fly to this body and wait an arbitrary length of time near it till the mission USS spawns" mechanic is pants), but if I'm just after anything else, and all there is are these, on both Open and Solo boards, well, I just hang the towel up and play a different game at that point.

Changing agents to offer mission categories, not missions, just makes sense. People stacking certain mission types are only going to use 10-15% of the missions generated of that type (that's why anomalous systems like Robigo etc. are so popular for it; their conditions generate a much smaller subset of certain missions due to the inability to create other missions of the same type. People running for a certain faction for the BGS again are only going to use a small subset (8-12 offered by a single faction) of the 60-odd missions generated... and even then they won't be taking all those missions. People who grind rep are in the same boat, and "casual" mission runners just looking to do a mission or two for anyone won't really care what's on the board, they just want there to be something, while more discerning people are going to have a trade vessel, and only want trade/hauling missions, or combat pilots will only want assasination/massacre missions.

Then when you introduce things like long-range missions to Colonia, people who want to stay in the bubble grumble when their mission boards only offer mostly missions over there; again, large volumes of wastage. Luxury Cabins are currently useless as you barely see any luxury passenger missions, and waste time and space fitting them when lower-class passengers require higher volumes. Wouldn't it be awesome if, when you fit a luxury cabin, you could just ask for a luxury passenger mission.

If the issue with the 2.4 change is that it couldn't keep up with the volume of mission generation requests, it's really important to remember that 80-90% of the generated missions will be wasted. Even if you didn't care and just accepted literally everything, we're capped at taking 20 missions, but a typical full board generates 60 missions, so that's 66% wasted computing time. Another source of waste is handing missions in... when you hand that cargo delivery mission in at your destination, you may not care about taking on any more missions, but we go through the rigmarole of generating a complete board of missions anyway, so that's 100% waste. That's a huge overhead, and would be fixed with a system allowing a player to ask for a procedurally generated mission. It puts a bit more thought behind stacking, but still allows it, and likewise gives everyone else exactly what they want.
 
Last edited:
This is a good summary of the shortcomings of the mission system. 2.4 has been a roller coaster for mission selection and it makes me more sympathetic to board flippers for sure. The missions in my books are probably the weakest part of Elite and I really hope things get fixed in 2018.

- (not really a reason, but) I've made the suggestion elsewhere that agents should offer mission categories, and then you get offered a randomly generated mission (or maybe, a set of three options). If you don't like it (destination, content, rewards, whatever), you can request a new one (or set), but it costs you a minor rep hit. This would fix a lot of issues with the mission boards for everyone, mission stackers (on the surface it might seem like a nerf, but it's actually a boost), BGS runners, "casual" mission runners, rep grinders, you name it.

These days, a lot of mission boards for some reason, in my experience, spam salvage missions. So much salvage spam. Sometimes I'm in the mood and have the time for these (often I avoid them because the "fly to this body and wait an arbitrary length of time near it till the mission USS spawns" mechanic is pants), but if I'm just after anything else, and all there is are these, on both Open and Solo boards, well, I just hang the towel up and play a different game at that point.

Changing agents to offer mission categories, not missions, just makes sense. People stacking certain mission types are only going to use 10-15% of the missions generated of that type (that's why anomalous systems like Robigo etc. are so popular for it; their conditions generate a much smaller subset of certain missions due to the inability to create other missions of the same type. People running for a certain faction for the BGS again are only going to use a small subset (8-12 offered by a single faction) of the 60-odd missions generated... and even then they won't be taking all those missions. People who grind rep are in the same boat, and "casual" mission runners just looking to do a mission or two for anyone won't really care what's on the board, they just want there to be something, while more discerning people are going to have a trade vessel, and only want trade/hauling missions, or combat pilots will only want assasination/massacre missions.

Oh yes, this!! I'd love to be able to actually go to a mission board where I can specify, only show me haulage missions. That would just be so insanely great. Even better, offer me a 700t haulage mission to take advantage of my Cutter.

Luxury Cabins are currently useless as you barely see any luxury passenger missions, and waste time and space fitting them when lower-class passengers require higher volumes. Wouldn't it be awesome if, when you fit a luxury cabin, you could just ask for a luxury passenger mission.

Yes! The Beluga would suddenly have an important niche in the game if Luxury missions mattered. Right now they just don't.

Some good ideas here, hope FD takes note.
 
I really fail to see how board flipping could be considered any form of cheat/exploit. ???

The missions are legit missions. All the flipping does is make up for the fact that the game's own mission delivery system is lame and uninspired.

If Frontier was on the ball with these, they would add an algorithm that chooses missions based on a player's style and previous mission choices. Basically the same algorithm NetFlix and others use to pair you with movies and TV shows you might like.

All based on stuff you have previously watched and/or high rated.

Its not rocket science. But for some reason, Frontier chooses a mission delivery system just this side of the stone age. I'm not about to sit there and wait 15 minutes for that antiquated garbage to update on its own.

Nor am I going to waste time flying to another station when I know the place I am parked at has the missions I want. They are simply hidden "behind the velvet curtain" of tedium. ;)
 
Last edited:
I never used to do it, thinking it a little cheesy. However, then I started regularly getting missions offers that were broken, giving me a "Server Error" message when I accepted them. This, it turned out, appeared to be due to a bodge put in by a developer to limit certain very well-paying passenger missions. So, after grinding my Rep up with the local factions so they offer me better missions, increasing my Elite rank to boost the payout further and picking the right location for the distance bonus all that effort resulted in being offered broken missions. That is when I very first did a board flip as I'd landed at several stations - all in systems within 20ly of a distant (from the arrival point) Station - only to be offered missions that I could not accept. Often trying to accept these missions - to ascertain what the cap was (it's 50 million credits FYI) - would then break the mission board entirely.

Even now, I know to avoid these missions and I'll sometimes flip until I get an offer that's NOT broken. So, I'm basically working around a bugged mission offer. Sometimes I also get an issue where the mission list takes ages to load, then when it does I get an "Incomplete list" message. Sometimes it fixes its self - just exit the menu and go back in - other times I just exit my Private Group and go back in.

At the end of the day I've zero problems with others who choose to do this. In my view they game should always offer ample missions to the player based on the ship and loadout they arrive in. I.e. Turn up in a Sidewinder and there might be more Data Courier type missions as Cargo and Passenger ones are likely wasted on you. Turn up in a Type 7 and expect some juicy Cargo missions, or perhaps passenger ones if you've equipped Cabins over Cargo racks. Turn up in one of the Luxury Liners and expect les bulk, but more VIP clients to be waiting. Of course, show up in a a death-dealing FDL and perhaps the local factions will have some use for you too ;) Of course, all this should be governed by a degree of RNG, as well as local faction standings of course. I'm not expecting huge payout per-mission, however, being able to stack several cargo, passenger or data runs to a given location should be a thing. Sure, a new player might only see one or two offers where they can stack, but a player who's invested time, effort and perhaps even cash, into obtaining good standing with a faction should get the rewards in the form of more mission offers.

Basically, I wish we could always find gainful employment via the mission boards when we land. However, RNG often doesn't favour us. I've turned up at some stations time and time again only to see lots of well-paid bulk cargo missions, yet I'm in a small ship. I return later in a ship with a decent cargo bay, and now I see just courier missions. It's somewhat frustrating lol.

Scoob.
 
Hi Everyone.

Straight off the bat, Any Fdev Moderators can you confirm if logging in/out of different instances (open/Group/Solo) to get more missions of the type the player is looking for is classed as an exploit or just frowned upon by certain members of the Elite Dangerous community (The Immersioneers), As i see it and a lot of others it is a valid way to play. To use your own words 'Blaze your own trail'.

As there is no penalty to this type of gameplay apart from eventually it will go dry for a time then the boards start spawning the required missions again.

I'm asking this as a few people who stream ED use this method and other people are entering the stremers chat and being obnoxious about thier method of gameplay so a clarification on this 'issue' would be lovely.

Thankyou.

If this has already been answered can you point me in the correct direction.

Prize for best thread title of the day.
 
People who believe it ruins immersion aren't playing their character right. :p

Every time I hit a docking station my commander is wheeling and dealing for the best deals. My contacts of station is talking to other people about the commander who is on station and can get things done. All for the right price.

I fill up my T9 with good and head to famine station. There me and my crew dock up with assault rifles and shot guns. No it's not a donation... You want it, buy it! Unfortunately this gameplay is only available through board flipping. Really wish there was an internal mechanism to do this, but in the mean time this is fine too.
 
I don't really feel it is an exploit. And anyway, it doesn't seem to be productive to do it these days anyway - even after 20 minutes it seems few missions change. A single board swap on the other hand makes a lot of sense IMO - fly into a station in open, grab the missions, hop to solo and grab those, then back to open and you're out of the station! Continual board hopping is boring anyway.
 
Can't find the statement right now, but FDev themselves said it's not an exploit. You can switch modes as much as you like, when- and wherever you like.

This being said, as the board-refresh on relog is known for ~3 years now and they never attempted to do anything about it, it's safe to assume that it's intentional.
 
I really fail to see how board flipping could be considered any form of cheat/exploit.

It's an abuse of the unintended (but longstanding) issues with instance persistence that rewards people for something that shouldn't exist, and thus punishes those who don't exploit such obviously flawed and unintended gameplay. This 'gameplay' is tacitly accepted by Frontier, but it's also clear that it wouldn't be there if not for a few technical issues that prevent it from being replaced.

Personally, relogging or switching modes for the purpose of spawning new missions or regenerating any other per-instance item is on the same level as disconnecting via timer to save one's self from attack; habitually taking advantage of the unintentional ability to attack ships inside the NFZs of anarchy station (or even the docks proper, if using an SLF) with impunity; or filling up all the pads on an outpost to force people to go elsewhere. These actions are currently allowed, but if there were any alternatives to how these systems work that were ready to be implemented, you can damn well bet that any opportunity to, or advantaged gained by, using them would vanish.

In the end, I refuse to do it for exactly the same reason I refused to mode switch my way to hundreds of CIF at Dav's Hope (or other unintentionally regenerative instances), refused to suicidewinder, or resent having to mode switch to get into an occupied outpost. These things are all jarringly absurd disruptions to verisimilitude and immersion; unfortunate side effects of broken systems clearly not intended to be a desired part of gameplay.

This being said, as the board-refresh on relog is known for ~3 years now and they never attempted to do anything about it, it's safe to assume that it's intentional.

Can't agree with this.

They have repeatedly implemented tweaks to minimize the benefits that are able to be obtained from relogging, which clearly suggests it's not intended gameplay. They are trying to balance the overall availability of missions with the limited provisions they have for persistence vs. the fact that people will exploit the easiest solutions in a negative manner.

In general, if it doesn't make sense, or rewards something that has no reasonable in-game/character explanation, it's probably not intended unless explicitly stated to be a gameplay compromise (like speed limits and the way FA modes function), in which case it will have all sorts of official handwavium explaining it in the manual/lore.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom