Modes Elite Dangerous - An inside look at BGS PVP (SAW Parody)

[Riverside]

No for the last time.

Will this really be the last time though? You've got an opinion on how you think all interaction should work, based on how you prefer to play. It's important that you accept that others prefer to play a different way. If all PvP counts as PvP, why don't you just use the same tactics you think are being used against you?

'It's not fair, they aren't playing by the rules!'

But they are playing by the rules, you just disagree with the rules.

'So we should change the rules, I think my way is better!'

At least as many people think the current rules are fine.


You couldn't even stop a player in open, in the same system as you, at the same time as you from undermining you if they weren't nearby.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Will this really be the last time though? You've got an opinion on how you think all interaction should work, based on how you prefer to play. It's important that you accept that others prefer to play a different way. If all PvP counts as PvP, why don't you just use the same tactics you think are being used against you?

'It's not fair, they aren't playing by the rules!'

But they are playing by the rules, you just disagree with the rules.

'So we should change the rules, I think my way is better!'

At least as many people think the current rules are fine.


You couldn't even stop a player in open, in the same system as you, at the same time as you from undermining you if they weren't nearby.

How many times you going to take things out of context?

I stop people all the time. If you watch the video. I went into mobius PVE. The group we are fighting against. There is no PVP allowed in there. I played by the rules.

Remember Riverside

It's all about the game and how you play it.
All about control and if you can take it.
All about your debt and if you can pay it.
It's all about pain and who's gonna make it.

I am the game, you don't want to play me.
I am control, no way you can change me.
I am heavy debt, no way you can pay me.
I am the pain and I know you can't take me.

Look over your shoulder, ready to run.
Like a Fer de Lance chasing you, with a smokin gun.
I am the game and I make the rules.
So move on out here and die like a fool.

Try to figure out what my move's gonna be.
Come into OPEN sucker, why don't you ask me?
Don't you forget that the price you can pay
Cause I am the game and I want to play

We still won Alberta.

And yes, I want the rules to change. To include ALL of PVP. Not some of it.

It will solve more problems in this game. If you dont want to PVP. Then dont PVP at all.

This only relates to player groups, no matter if its Powerplay or through the BGS. In the End its the same. Its player vs player. It does not matter the context.

 

[Mouse]

Because the outlets for direct PVP frontier has provided arent being used when people opt out of them because of the modes.

They created specifics to this game for that feature and that feature alone. Direct PVP.

And again, because of those imbalances the modes bring for objective control. The community created their own outlet instead.

Definitely not intended.

The outlets for direct PVP are being used when those who want to PVP do so.... the Modes didn't make it so that people cannot PVP they made it so that people can choose how much of it they want to do. YOU want to force everyone to PVP... which is horse hockey.

"They created specifics to this game for that feature and that feature alone. Direct PVP." Are you kidding me... the specifics of the game were not created for Direct PVP...

There is NO imbalance in the modes... you just peceive one because others don't play your way... been proven time and time again.


And this phrase...

"No for the last time.

If you are involved in PVP. You are involved in all of it. Not some of it. ALL OF IT."

That is the greatest bit of obvious bull manure there is.

If you play the game you are involved in ALL of it. You could never do combat, or never explore, or never trade yet you are still involved in all of it...because your actions and the actions of everyone else affect the BGS.

You seem to think that PVP is the end all of the game... but it is just a small part. YOU do not have to be involved in PVP to be involved in all of the game... to claim so is conceited.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The outlets for direct PVP are being used when those who want to PVP do so.... the Modes didn't make it so that people cannot PVP they made it so that people can choose how much of it they want to do. YOU want to force everyone to PVP... which is horse hockey.

"They created specifics to this game for that feature and that feature alone. Direct PVP." Are you kidding me... the specifics of the game were not created for Direct PVP...

There is NO imbalance in the modes... you just peceive one because others don't play your way... been proven time and time again.


And this phrase...

"No for the last time.

If you are involved in PVP. You are involved in all of it. Not some of it. ALL OF IT."

That is the greatest bit of obvious bull manure there is.

If you play the game you are involved in ALL of it. You could never do combat, or never explore, or never trade yet you are still involved in all of it...because your actions and the actions of everyone else affect the BGS.

You seem to think that PVP is the end all of the game... but it is just a small part. YOU do not have to be involved in PVP to be involved in all of the game... to claim so is conceited.

Keep telling yourself that.

You argued and argued until you finally watched the video about Sandro talking about powerplay. It took you 2 days to finally watch it.

Then you understood what was going on there.

And now the same thing is happening with player factions in colonia.

Its PVP. I dont care in what context its in.

People are using those modes for the advantage. You can outfit in solo and private differently than you do in open. You dont have to worry about the risk vs your opponents. You can min max safely. Its created a meta.

Its not about griefing. Or anything like that. People have used these modes cause they are there for the tactical advantage. THATS ALL.

BTW most of the people that do this, are very capable of PVP. Seen them do it and show themselves in videos.

 

[Riverside]

How many times you going to take things out of context?

I stop people all the time. If you watch the video. I went into mobius PVE. The group we are fighting against. There is no PVP allowed in there. I played by the rules.

Remember Riverside

It's all about the game and how you play it.
All about control and if you can take it.
All about your debt and if you can pay it.
It's all about pain and who's gonna make it.

I am the game, you don't want to play me.
I am control, no way you can change me.
I am heavy debt, no way you can pay me.
I am the pain and I know you can't take me.

Look over your shoulder, ready to run.
Like a Fer de Lance chasing you, with a smokin gun.
I am the game and I make the rules.
So move on out here and die like a fool.

Try to figure out what my move's gonna be.
Come into OPEN sucker, why don't you ask me?
Don't you forget that the price you can pay
Cause I am the game and I want to play

We still won Alberta.

And yes, I want the rules to change. To include ALL of PVP. Not some of it.

It will solve more problems in this game. If you dont want to PVP. Then dont PVP at all.

This only relates to player groups, no matter if its Powerplay or through the BGS. In the End its the same. Its player vs player. It does not matter the context.

You are not the game, none of us are. You are a bit-part just like the rest of us. You cannot control everything, even if everyone was in open & in the same instance you could not exercise any control, only the rules of the game can do that.

If you went to a foreign country that drove on the opposite side of the road to your country, would you continue to drive on the side you believe is correct, or would you follow the local law? Which side a country says to drive on is just a choice, what's important is that everyone uses the same rule.

 

[Mouse]

Keep telling yourself that.

You argued and argued until you finally watched the video about Sandro talking about powerplay. It took you 2 days to finally watch it.

Then you understood what was going on there.

And now the same thing is happening with player factions in colonia.

Its PVP. I dont care in what context its in.

People are using those modes for the advantage. You can outfit in solo and private differently than you do in open. You dont have to worry about the risk vs your opponents. You can min max safely. Its created a meta.

Its not about griefing. Or anything like that. People have used these modes cause they are there for the tactical advantage. THATS ALL.

BTW most of the people that do this, are very capable of PVP. Seen them do it and show themselves in videos.

Um.. not sure who you think you are talking to, but I watched Sandros talk on the video when you first posted it then I TOLD you repeatedly afterwards that he backed off... heck Asp even posted his comments where he backed off and you still refuse to listen and now erroneously claim that I argued until watching the video. Does reality mean anything to you or are alt-facts that you make up the only thing you believe in?

So many people have posted that you are wrong and pointed it out but you still slam your head repeatedly against that wall..

And I find it most funny is that you are complaining about PVPers... which is hugely ironic... you or others ridicule us over not liking griefers and that they can play their way... yet want to change the way other PVPers play because YOU feel it gives them an advantage. News flash it doesn't...because again... and I know you have a hard time understanding this. It isn't an exploit and anyone can play in any mode... if you chose to NOT play in a mode don't complain about others who do.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I've decided to remove you from my ignore list, OP.

But make no mistake. It's because I'm laughing AT you.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I've decided to remove you from my ignore list, OP.

But make no mistake. It's because I'm laughing AT you.

We'll see who has the last laugh.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

We'll see who has the last laugh.

Me. Because there will always be Solo. Until you stop me from taking off in my Solo instance, you've done nothing.

Anyway dude, at this point I think you're a troll. I hope you're a troll.

Because if you're not a troll, I'm genuinely worried about your view on the world. The way you seem to think you have influence in the FD boardroom is... Queer.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Um.. not sure who you think you are talking to, but I watched Sandros talk on the video when you first posted it then I TOLD you repeatedly afterwards that he backed off... heck Asp even posted his comments where he backed off and you still refuse to listen and now erroneously claim that I argued until watching the video. Does reality mean anything to you or are alt-facts that you make up the only thing you believe in?

So many people have posted that you are wrong and pointed it out but you still slam your head repeatedly against that wall..

And I find it most funny is that you are complaining about PVPers... which is hugely ironic... you or others ridicule us over not liking griefers and that they can play their way... yet want to change the way other PVPers play because YOU feel it gives them an advantage. News flash it doesn't...because again... and I know you have a hard time understanding this. It isn't an exploit and anyone can play in any mode... if you chose to NOT play in a mode don't complain about others who do.

Basically it comes down to experience. Showing the issues first hand. In which I have done. Explained the issues while people with no experience fight against it.

People that are fighting against it here dont even have a stake in the activities at hand in the first place.

The people that do and use the modes. Know why they are using the modes to attack others.

As seen here, [video=youtube;cnYXTh4TCVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo[/video]

The guy explains it himself.

So while you go off on your rants for the sake of them. Im providing proof and evidence in what Sandro has said. He also spoke about powerplay being meant for Direct PVP. In that video you refused to watch? He said that around 2 months ago. That link and backtracking you're talking about is 2 years ago.

Since then we have established player groups and more.

Ya'll can laugh at me all you want. Argue with me all you want. Thats fine.

But my experience and proof has backed up everything Sando himself has said about risk vs reward when it comes to PVP activities vs another group.

And that is what I am showing here.

There is a multiplayer part of this game meant for direct PVP. And they are introducing squadrons to do the same thing, Meant for the multiplayer part of this game.

If they make Squadrons fleet ships a part of a static build. They will be nothing more than another CG where people dock at for their group. The same issues will still exist as they do now.

And everything they put into squadrons, this issue will raise its ugly head x100000. It wont just be me you're arguing with here. People that have left this game waiting for content will come back. And this place will be flooded with this conversation.

And If I know all of this. So does frontier.

Again this comes down to experience. And actually playing all of this game. Not half of it. Or some of it. I've done it all. Been involved in it all. And can prove every bit of it. Which I have.

Me. Because there will always be Solo. Until you stop me from taking off in my Solo instance, you've done nothing.

Anyway dude, at this point I think you're a troll. I hope you're a troll.

Because if you're not a troll, I'm genuinely worried about your view on the world. The way you seem to think you have influence in the FD boardroom is... Queer.

If you arent involved with any type of PVP. Then you have nothing to worry about in the first place. And you have no horse in this race to begin with. Just like most the people here trying to fight against this.

Far from being a troll. Im dead serious.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

OP, I want you to answer a very simple question.

Please, answer with no drama or theatrics. This is a sincere request. I assure you, this will be my last post in this thread, as long as you answer the following question in a simple and efficient manner:

Do you think players in Solo should earn less credits? This is not about the BGS. It is about personal rewards, which have zero effect on the BGS.

I'm beginning to see how FD could broker a "peace deal" between PvP and PvE players. But it would require concessions from both sides.

Namely, Solo players be allowed to continue receiving the same personal rewards, that is to say, credits and crafting materials, in return for the PvP community to stop berating PvE players, and that Solo/PG see a significant nerf in BGS influence.

Actually, if you answer sensibly, and without drama, I'm willing to have a civil discussion. I take back my comment on this being my last post in this thread.

 

[Mouse]

Basically it comes down to experience. Showing the issues first hand. In which I have done. Explained the issues while people with no experience fight against it.

People that are fighting against it here dont even have a stake in the activities at hand in the first place.

The people that do and use the modes. Know why they are using the modes to attack others.

As seen here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

The guy explains it himself.

So while you go off on your rants for the sake of them. Im providing proof and evidence in what Sandro has said. He also spoke about powerplay being meant for Direct PVP. In that video you refused to watch? He said that around 2 months ago. That link and backtracking you're talking about is 2 years ago.

Since then we have established player groups and more.

Ya'll can laugh at me all you want. Argue with me all you want. Thats fine.

But my experience and proof has backed up everything Sando himself has said about risk vs reward when it comes to PVP activities vs another group.

And that is what I am showing here.

There is a multiplayer part of this game meant for direct PVP. And they are introducing squadrons to do the same thing, Meant for the multiplayer part of this game.

If they make Squadrons fleet ships a part of a static build. They will be nothing more than another CG where people dock at for their group. The same issues will still exist as they do now.

And everything they put into squadrons, this issue will raise its ugly head x100000. It wont just be me you're arguing with here. People that have left this game waiting for content will come back. And this place will be flooded with this conversation.

And If I know all of this. So does frontier.

Again this comes down to experience. And actually playing all of this game. Not half of it. Or some of it. I've done it all. Been involved in it all. And can prove every bit of it. Which I have.



If you arent involved with any type of PVP. Then you have nothing to worry about in the first place. And you have no horse in this race to begin with. Just like most the people here trying to fight against this.

Far from being a troll. Im dead serious.

If you are talking of rants for the sake of rants.. look in the mirror not me. And again with your video... you look at what someone is doing and making a HUGE Donkey out of yourself by the assumption that everyone in Solo who plays is in some devious mass agreement against open fight.... and it is why many people laugh at you while you keep screaming that those in solo are ruining your playground. As in open Solo has people working all sides.. You in open have the SAME influence on the BGS as those in Solo

 

[Jockey79]

There is a multiplayer part of this game meant for direct PVP.

No there isn't. Even David Braben described the game as a Co-Op Multiplayer game.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

OP, I want you to answer a very simple question.

Please, answer with no drama or theatrics. This is a sincere request. I assure you, this will be my last post in this thread, as long as you answer the following question in a simple and efficient manner:

Do you think players in Solo should earn less credits? This is not about the BGS. It is about personal rewards, which have zero effect on the BGS.

I'm beginning to see how FD could broker a "peace deal" between PvP and PvE players. But it would require concessions from both sides.

Namely, Solo players be allowed to continue receiving the same personal rewards, that is to say, credits and crafting materials, in return for the PvP community to stop berating PvE players, and that Solo/PG see a significant nerf in BGS influence.

Actually, if you answer sensibly, and without drama, I'm willing to have a civil discussion. I take back my comment on this being my last post in this thread.

No, Personal progression is just fine within those modes. As a matter of fact, I have a disability and use that part of the game to relax. And never intentionally go after another player group if I just want to trade or work on engineers or credit grind.

I have lots of friends that arent capable of PVP. Their body wont allow it. But they love the game. They love space. And they arent looking to PVP in any capacity. So I think its fair for personal progression, credits engineers all that stuff can be done in them.

Im just talking about the intentional influences vs others with group play. Objectives.

This is all I have ever asked for. Ever since the beginning.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

No there isn't. Even David Braben described the game as a Co-Op Multiplayer game.

"We have to the fudge the crime response for powerplay, because who wants the cops coming in when you want consensual PVP. Thats what powerplay was for". -Sandro Sammarco. IN THE VIDEO I POSTED A MILLION TIMES.

People have intentionally opted out of Direct PVP. In a part of the game made for Direct PVP.

And now they are doing the same thing with player factions vs player factions 2 years later.

 

[Jockey79]

"We have the fudge the crime response for powerplay, because who wants the cops coming in when you want consensual PVP. Thats what powerplay was for". -Sandro Sammarco. IN THE VIDEO I POSTED A MILLION TIMES.

People have intentionally opted out of Direct PVP. In a part of the game made for Direct PVP.

And now they are doing the same thing with player factions vs player factions 2 years later.

Funny how the only information from Sandro you ignore is the one that invalidates what you're posting.
You know, the one where he apologises for "pulling the pin on that hand grenade" (aka open bonus for PvP PP).

 

[Deleted member 110222]

No, Personal progression is just fine within those modes. As a matter of fact, I have a disability and use that part of the game to relax. And never intentionally go after another player group if I just want to trade or work on engineers or credit grind.

I have lots of friends that arent capable of PVP. Their body wont allow it. But they love the game. They love space. And they arent looking to PVP in any capacity. So I think its fair for personal progression, credits engineers all that stuff can be done in them.

Im just talking about the intentional influences vs others with group play.

Right, okay. I'm glad to hear that. I have quite frequently heard PvP players demand that Solo players receive less personal rewards, simply because they don't play in Open. Obviously, that is taking things too far. The moment you start penalising people on a personal level for their mode choices... Well like you say. FD would pretty much be indirectly attacking the sick and disabled.

Now, as I said. I would be willing to concede BGS influence, on the promise that I retain equality on a personal reward level, that is to say, credits and crafting materials.

I understand why some PvE-types will disagree with my willingness to concede influence.

However, PvP players would lose something too. Forever more, they'll have to live in the knowledge that someone can use Solo to build a monster ship, completely unopposed, and then enter Open with said monster ship.

This seems a reasonable trade-off, as I know many PvP-types who would not be happy that Solo players would be able to continue making their "God-ships" in a "safer mode".

Both sides in my proposal have to live with something that portions of their members will find infuriating.

Is it entirely equal? No. But I think it is a close as anyone can get, if we hope to bring some peace to this community.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Funny how the only information from Sandro you ignore is the one that invalidates what you're posting.
You know, the one where he apologises for "pulling the pin on that hand grenade" (aka open bonus for PvP PP).

Well he just said that in the video 2 months ago. While he said that other thing 2 years ago.

That still doesnt change the facts about risks and rewards about open play. He can apologize all he wants. And you can try and use that all you want.

The facts remain. And Ive proven them.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Right, okay. I'm glad to hear that. I have quite frequently heard PvP players demand that Solo players receive less personal rewards, simply because they don't play in Open. Obviously, that is taking things too far. The moment you start penalising people on a personal level for their mode choices... Well like you say. FD would pretty much be indirectly attacking the sick and disabled.

Now, as I said. I would be willing to concede BGS influence, on the promise that I retain equality on a personal reward level, that is to say, credits and crafting materials.

I understand why some PvE-types will disagree with my willingness to concede influence.

However, PvP players would lose something too. Forever more, they'll have to live in the knowledge that someone can use Solo to build a monster ship, completely unopposed, and then enter Open with said monster ship.

This seems a reasonable trade-off, as I know many PvP-types who would not be happy that Solo players would be able to continue making their "God-ships" in a "safer mode".

Both sides in my proposal have to live with something that portions of their members will find infuriating.

Is it entirely equal? No. But I think it is a close as anyone can get, if we hope to bring some peace to this community.

Eh, people have to give on both sides. I see nothing wrong with personal progression though. Where people can bring their ship they have worked on into the multiplayer experience at any time. Its only fair. People have to learn the game first. Its not fair to dunk people in that have 1000 in pvp experience and 2 billion in rebuys. They wont learn anything that way.

Thanks for hearing me out.

I dont want to be a griefer. Thats not why I am here. I am looking for healthy PVP. Believe it or not. Thats what a lot of people want.

 

[Jockey79]

But I think it is a close as anyone can get, if we hope to bring some peace to this community.

It's no where near "close" at all.

PvP hasn't given up anything. We can currently build "monster" ships in Solo/PGs - so that isn't PvP'ers giving anything up, that's them accepting what we have now.

I also remind you the game was sold so every person in every mode influences the connected BGS.
It's not just Solo/PG you're looking at, but also Xbox has Open / PG / Solo and PS4 has Open / PG / Solo - all effecting the same BGS.
You're just penalising PC PG/Solo mode with that option of yours without considering that Xbox and PS4 will still have full influence.
Or the fact that Xbox and PS4 Open mode cannot be stopped by each other or by PC Open mode.

So no that isn't a compromise at all. It's no where near one.
It's just taking away from PC PG/Solo players for no good reason.