PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

[Riverside]

My reply is going to get buried in a thread this long. But I'm going to type it anyway - out of sheer stubbornness!

Who cares!? That's my reply.

Why? If that is my reply, did I bother making it? Because otherwise there is always a danger that a vocal minority might assume they are a majority. Of course I could be mistaken! Argue away!

So why do I assert my case?

I think most players either want to play solo, or prefer to play social multi-player rather than PvP. Players who want to play a competitive PvP are always able to find willing opponents - this forum has ample evidence to back up this claim.

So what we really have here, is a bunch of (perhaps selfish) players with (probably) over-engineered ships in specialist PvP nuking builds who want to lord themselves over inexperienced newbies who they out-class in every respect, and get all in a huff when the newbie doesn't want to play ball.

There. Said it. Nuff said. I realise this will not go down at all well with this thread. But I also realise, that at page 43, it will probably get buried and forgotten first... ;-)

Happy New Year!

I don't agree with your view, but in the case of threads like this (taking a legitimate issue & using it to troll the Devs, so encouraging the uninformed community to side with the exploiters) I believe it probably is important that the community show the apathy this kind of approach generates.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

In every game everyone may disconnect from the game whenever he want and people are not complain obout it. FD can't do nothing really to force someone to not leaving the game during combat. Read Microsoft EULA.

What FD may do is to make pvp better and worth it, then more people will stop disconnecting.

FD can absolutely be the arbitrators of their game, and the conduct they expect players to abide by. This is true of ANY online venue, period. If you don't like the rules, then you don't have to follow them, but that means you don't get to play either.

And that's true of any venue, online or otherwise. Abide by the rules of conduct or don't participate.

 

[Lateralus]

My reply is going to get buried in a thread this long. But I'm going to type it anyway - out of sheer stubbornness!
Who cares!? That's my reply.

Clearly many.

Why? If that is my reply, did I bother making it? Because otherwise there is always a danger that a vocal minority might assume they are a majority. Of course I could be mistaken! Argue away!

It's a problem that affects a substantial section of the community.. Undermining several forms of PvP gameplay to the point of irrelevance. How many players have left the game because it has not been sorted.. I know of loads of prominent players from the early days who dropped the game for good because of this reason.

So why do I assert my case?

I think most players either want to play solo, or prefer to play social multi-player rather than PvP. Players who want to play a competitive PvP are always able to find willing opponents - this forum has ample evidence to back up this claim.

Then they should play in the modes that cater to them, that's why they are there [rolleyes]

So what we really have here, is a bunch of (perhaps selfish) players with (probably) over-engineered ships in specialist PvP nuking builds who want to lord themselves over inexperienced newbies who they out-class in every respect, and get all in a huff when the newbie doesn't want to play ball.

So people are selfish for wanting cheating dealt with in the way that the developer assured them it would be? Amazing.

There. Said it. Nuff said. I realise this will not go down at all well with this thread. But I also realise, that at page 43, it will probably get buried and forgotten first... ;-)

Fingers crossed [up]

Happy New Year!

You too!

 

[Sirius Agent]

FD can absolutely be the arbitrators of their game, and the conduct they expect players to abide by. This is true of ANY online venue, period. If you don't like the rules, then you don't have to follow them, but that means you don't get to play either.

And that's true of any venue, online or otherwise. Abide by the rules of conduct or don't participate.

Show me this rule of not leaving the game when I want in ED EULA. Please don't be silly. In every mmo game people are doing this. Even in GTA Online people are doing this and no one give a damn about it.
And ED is not even close to mmo game...

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

Show me this rule of not leaving the game when I want in ED EULA. Please don't be silly. Even in GTA Online people are doing this and no one give a damn about it.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105778&highlight=combat+logging

Relevant excerpt:

"First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

Because we don’t have an all powerful server running the moment-to-moment game play simulation, there is no infallible arbiter to take control of a player’s ship when they ungracefully exit.

So what we’re doing is logging telemetry that will help us detect when this exploit is explicitly being used.

Right now, all we’re doing (and have already started doing) is looking at and implementing methods of collecting and analysing data.

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously."

And no amount of word twisting or psuedo-lawyering changes that. "You should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any PENALTIES."

 

[Sirius Agent]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105778&highlight=combat+logging

Relevant excerpt:

"First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

Because we don’t have an all powerful server running the moment-to-moment game play simulation, there is no infallible arbiter to take control of a player’s ship when they ungracefully exit.

So what we’re doing is logging telemetry that will help us detect when this exploit is explicitly being used.

Right now, all we’re doing (and have already started doing) is looking at and implementing methods of collecting and analysing data.

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously."

And no amount of word twisting or psuedo-lawyering changes that. "You should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any PENALTIES."

Just words, not on paper means nothing.

By the way leaving game via menu in 15 seconds timer is part of the game, not exploit.

 

[zantar]

Yes:
https://youtu.be/ZrZwqAkiBmw

Nothing in the whole 38 minutes was there anything wrong on your end....not like my opinion matters. [haha]

If only those fake pirates could learn from you and your group, open would be so full, you would have one hell of a time picking one target from the bunch. [up]

I hear more and more about The Code and how they have been doing this for some time now. [yesnod]

You and others who follow that code are what elite needs more of.......not those "pirates" who live on pixel dust, not cargo.

o7 to you sir, and all others like you!

 

[Stigbob]

...haaaaaaaave you read our crime and punishment overhaul suggestion?

I did. You want a crime hub unaffected by the BGS (or indestructible safespace in other words) where you can buy and sell anything including engineered stuff, and gift stuff to each other. That would pay your bounty for you if you get blown up.

Now run it through the exploiter analysis : All you need is a cash exploit or a big gift from a player who's been exploiting (maybe yourself) and it's an instant endgame account creator. Very handy for bypassing block, Mobius bans or infiltrating player factions. In other words a griefers dream.

Do you think FDEV feels like giving you what you want, given you seem to enjoy trying to fabricate negative press for them ?.

 

[MottiKhan]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105778&highlight=combat+logging

Relevant excerpt:

"First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

Because we don’t have an all powerful server running the moment-to-moment game play simulation, there is no infallible arbiter to take control of a player’s ship when they ungracefully exit.

So what we’re doing is logging telemetry that will help us detect when this exploit is explicitly being used.

Right now, all we’re doing (and have already started doing) is looking at and implementing methods of collecting and analysing data.

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously."

And no amount of word twisting or psuedo-lawyering changes that. "You should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any PENALTIES."

Don't let him pull you in. He's trolling you.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

Just words, not on paper means nothing.

By the way leaving game via menu in 15 seconds timer is part of the game

All rules are "words on paper." That's a childish evasion. The words on this particular "paper" will be all Frontier needs to punish combat loggers when the time comes, and that can (based on what's happened in other games as an easily found precedent) include temporary or permanent banning.

 

[Martian Successor]

Just words, not on paper means nothing.

By the way leaving game via menu in 15 second timer is part of the game

Official "words" from the creators of the game. "Words" that are referencable on their own forum until they issue another statement that voids that. How official do you need something to be or are you simply going to believe like a child that closing your eyes and ears makes you exempt from following the rules?

15 second timer is confirmed as fine by the devs btw.

 

[Arguendo]

Show me this rule of not leaving the game when I want in ED EULA.

"4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature."
And then there are numerous clarifications by FDev on this point.

If you don't accept their word on it, especially their clarification on numerous occasions, I suggest you leave ED behind and find a game that tolerates combatlogging.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Mainly tory MPs? Or ex-Etonians? No stereo-typing here - I hope there are US equivalents, and the UK is not alone here...

Can't comment on such country specifics. I might see some tendency to attention ing in publicly exposed persons. Just like in online forums.

 

[Martian Successor]

Don't let him pull you in. He's trolling you.

The sad thing is that almost every time I see this whataboutism and paper thin kinder garden level excuses in every combat logging thread the poster is actually being serious.

 

[Maka Gucci]

Just words, not on paper means nothing.

By the way leaving game via menu in 15 seconds timer is part of the game

They are two different things, as stated by OP, who is focusing on CLogging.
The 15 second issue is a secondary problem but it isn't cheating in the same way as CLogging.

You asked where its stated, you were linked to the statement and you still try to get around it, taking pride in your cowardice. Why?

 

[Sirius Agent]

All rules are "words on paper." That's a childish evasion. The words on this particular "paper" will be all Frontier needs to punish combat loggers when the time comes, and that can (based on what's happened in other games as an easily found precedent) include temporary or permanent banning.

And how they will win in the court with those words then? When I bought the game there was nothing about not leaving the game when I want to... And still there are no such words in terms of use.

 

[Mohrgan]

Upon further review I find the OP unsubstantiated chest beating from a player who feels over entitled because others, too many likely, actually listen to him. I blame Reddit.

 

[Martian Successor]

And how they will win in the court with those words then? When I bought the game there was nothing about not leaving the game when I want to... And still there are no such words in game using terms.

It's in the EULA dude.

Arguendo kindly quoted it for you:

"4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature."
And then there are numerous clarifications by FDev on this point.

If you don't accept their word on it, especially their clarification on numerous occasions, I suggest you leave ED behind and find a game that tolerates combatlogging.

Can't rep him sadly even though I haven't been here in a while. Da fudge FD!?

 

[zantar]

Strawman alert.

Lateralus was trying to suggest that enforcing a definite loss for cheating will encourage players to actually play the game rather than cheating their way out of situations.

I have since edited my post as I have seen how he and his group are true pirates, not those fake ones out there.

Apologies. [up]

 

[Sirius Agent]

It's in the EULA dude.

Arguendo kindly quoted it for you:

Still there is no answer there. Because I'm just leaving game via in game menu -this is legal, turning off my computer is legal too.