The epic fail of Beyond

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Speaking of stating the obvious, the simplistic mechanic of jump honk scoop wait isnt where any improvement needs be made...refined possibly with a few extra bells and whistles perhaps, but by far where the greatest scope fer adding more meaningful stuff to do are the planets themselves. Really when ye think about it, all the honk really does is give ye a minimap to show where everything is...ye only find out what it is and what is has after actually going there and thats where a great deal of improvements could make a lotta difference.

Changing the jump honk mechanic doesnt just change how exploration works either, it affects just about every other playstyle that includes moving from system to system. The honk part maybe not so much, but that could make life a whole lot less easy if ye never been there before regardless why yer there or what yer doing.

In so far as the basic simplistic design of jump honk wait literally isnt broken, so it wouldnt make sense fixing something that wasnt broken. What would make sense is perhaps improving everything that comes after that...simplistic in design and implimentation now but thats where change is most needed imo ^

Repped you in long time

I think people who followed FD decision chain about exploration are mostly salty about non-appearance of hyperpath discovery mechanism. It was hinted in DDF, but when exploration arrived, it was basically aim for star and go.

And there's the thing - my pick is that mechanism would have limited exploration and would have decreased exploration of galaxy to absurd level. So...yeah, I am torn but I guess they made right choice there.

As for honking system....at the beginning there were several distances for different discovery scanners, but those got removed for whatever game balance reason. Again, not a deal breaker, because while some people loved wondering about systems and trying to honk out different parts of it, it wasn't that exciting. In big systems you still need several honks though.

And yes, down to basics - ED lacks exploration mechanics how to do stuff they find with discovery scanner. Ok, we scan planet. Get it's content analysis. But what else. What about POIs? What about mining on planets?

 

[Urbanski101]

I'm not sure the honk and detailed surface scanner mechanic is the issue IMO.

The for me the issue is, that's the whole exploration mechanic.

Keep the honk and the surface scanner but add layers to it. Probes to perform more detailed analysis, taking soil/rock samples, use of the HUD overlays to determine atmosphere composition, topography, resource mapping etc...

You can ignore all of these but those who want to can increase their exploration earnings by performing very detailed analysis of planetary bodies, level 5, 6 & 7 scans

Maybe you upgrade the standard ship sensor. The sensor could have slots or memory that you can upgrade with software packages/suites for exploration.

You could also utilise the same system for mining software. Upgrade the sensor with a mining software package that overlays a resource heat map onto the ring and nearby asteroids so you can see what's worth mining or where on the asteroid will give you the best yield.

 

[Han Zulu]

And yes, down to basics - ED lacks exploration mechanics how to do stuff they find with discovery scanner. Ok, we scan planet. Get it's content analysis. But what else. What about POIs? What about mining on planets?

Agree.

Actually, I think the scanner should just say something like "Anomaly detected", just like Mass Effect. Then you have to either use visual exploration, or take out a special exploration SLF that has a scanner like the SRV to detect POIs etc. So there's a bit of work, but it's not impossible, and not that the planet scanner just automatically gives you the coordinates either.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So you honestly believe they are gonna go back and add more muticrew roles, offline mode, etc? Really?? And I'm not sure scanning them or dropping cargo is really "meaningful". Is that the standard we should be happy with?

I don't know whether they will add more roles for multicrew or not. I prefer not to make assumptions. What other thargoid interaction are you looking for that makes sense.

As to the standard, it's perfectly fine at the moment, as long as it gets built on.

As to offline mode, they said when the servers close down it will be made available. It may be a bit static though.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Honestly, I'd be happy with any change that "involved the player" more in exploration. If they made the planetary scanning more in-depth, but we still had the discovery scanner honk, that would be an improvement. I personally think the honk scanner is ridiculous and overly simplistic, but it doesn't have to be all about what I want - as long as it's better than the mind-numbingly boring and basic system we have now.

Which is precisely what they intend to do:


Exploration - we’re going to significantly improve and build on exploration. The exploring flow will be more involved, more efficient and more satisfying. These new mechanics will also improve the experience for anyone searching for something, be that a mission or a particular resource. To support exploration we’re adding the Codex, an archive that logs your exploration achievements and acts as a repository for game lore. There will also be new phenomena, anomalies and other exciting things to discover.

 

[verminstar]

Repped you in long time

I think people who followed FD decision chain about exploration are mostly salty about non-appearance of hyperpath discovery mechanism. It was hinted in DDF, but when exploration arrived, it was basically aim for star and go.

And there's the thing - my pick is that mechanism would have limited exploration and would have decreased exploration of galaxy to absurd level. So...yeah, I am torn but I guess they made right choice there.

As for honking system....at the beginning there were several distances for different discovery scanners, but those got removed for whatever game balance reason. Again, not a deal breaker, because while some people loved wondering about systems and trying to honk out different parts of it, it wasn't that exciting. In big systems you still need several honks though.

And yes, down to basics - ED lacks exploration mechanics how to do stuff they find with discovery scanner. Ok, we scan planet. Get it's content analysis. But what else. What about POIs? What about mining on planets?

I liken the honk to a sonar pulse...its reveals the basics in that there is something there and roughly what basic dimensions and contents are or what class of gas giant it is...same as sonar that reveals shapes and objects but thats about it. Its only as one gets closer that more detail is revealed which is, in simplistic terms, how exploration works. Just getting there can be an effort in itself but theres so much more that can be done thats missing.

Dedicated scanners that specifically look fer POI or volcanism only...the very thing that many have requested considering we currently only have a mk1 eyeball and luck to go on. Being a dedicated scanner means it takes a slot and so forces build metas to adapt in ships with more limited space.

Not to mention the POI themselves...currently they dont really serve any purpose...seen one seen em all, sometimes theres a material though mostly its cargo that is itself illegal half the time. How many explorers even have cargo racks to carry them? I know I dont because they aint worth the effort.

And thats just thinking about what we do have as opposed to pulling stuff outta thin air and dreaming about.

Ye I saw the rep and had a moment of dizziness, though its passed now ^

 

[Julio Montega]

Honestly, I'd be happy with any change that "involved the player" more in exploration. If they made the planetary scanning more in-depth, but we still had the discovery scanner honk, that would be an improvement. I personally think the honk scanner is ridiculous and overly simplistic, but it doesn't have to be all about what I want - as long as it's better than the mind-numbingly boring and basic system we have now.

I'd totally agree with that.
There would however not be a deeper
game design if FD would make the honking
a mini-game where have to estimate the orbits of
the located objects.

In depth scanning of planet sectors,
awarding with additional payment for localizing
mineral deposits and POIs i'd very well like!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Agreed. And when it comes to mini-games and FD I must think about the flipping search zones and that 'mini-games' are probably not their greatest strength. So, interesting game mechanics - yes, anytime! Mini-games, maybe but please not from FD...

They are hit and miss. I really like the wave scanner which is a mini game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Agreed. And when it comes to mini-games and FD I must think about the flipping search zones and that 'mini-games' are probably not their greatest strength. So, interesting game mechanics - yes, anytime! Mini-games, maybe but please not from FD...

They are all mechanics, some more successful than others. I personally don't find anything annoying - besides not very interesting. I don't like PP mechanic and representation at the moment, exploration have only few mechanics which are very minimalistic...and so on. I like interdiction, I know some people find it annoying but overall I like what gameplay it enables.

 

[Julio Montega]

They are hit and miss. I really like the wave scanner which is a mini game.

The wavescanner indeed is a really good example
for a minigame for elite which is successful.
Although not without directly reminding me of:
"How far are we in the future? Why do we still use WWII equipment?"

 

[babelfisch]

So we actually agree here: a realistic game would be a simulation; opposite of a simulation game is an arcade game. Elite has definitely become an arcade shooter game. Glad we finally see this the same! Have to mark this thread post and date down.

First, it didn't 'become' an arcade shooter game, it's a science-fiction space ship game with lasers and shields.
Second, it never was a simulator in the first place. If you want to play a simulator you sould try Space Engine.

PS
Doesn't mean I am fine with the changes in the last years, I constantly complain about Engineers, SCBs, SBs, MRPs, HRPs, etc. But it's hard to see for some because it means they would need to admit that they are wrong and that I am not a mindless stupid fanboy.

Beyond as described so far IMO adds does nothing to solve the core gameplay issues. It's more window dressing, chrome plating, lipstick on the pig, etc. The codex is a good example: someone - anyone - describe how this will make exploring gameplay better? How will having some sort of log of what's currently in the game be better for the actual gameplay? Do we need a codex/log to remember where to go look at the lifeless INRA sites? Or the lifeless crash sites? Can't we just use the existing tags in the map to do this? Use your Elite-honed imagination skills if you like when describing the fun that's added with the codex...

I absolutely agree with you there, which is why I always say if you don't like the game today you will not like it at a later date. No amount of updates, changes, fixes, features, etc. will change that. If people hate Elite they should move on and find something else. That doesn't mean there should be no constructive criticism, but that should come from people who actually enjoy the game.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

Agreed, it’s not an arcade shooter. It’s a spreadsheet shooter full of min/maxers who spend more time obsessing over the numbers that make up their ships.

Ergo it become dull, as the OCD crowd got what they wanted.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Agreed, it’s not an arcade shooter. It’s a spreadsheet shooter full of min/maxers who spend more time obsessing over the numbers that make up their ships.

Ergo it become dull, as the OCD crowd got what they wanted.

You use spreadsheets? I prefer to play the game. Not too sure what you would need spreadsheets for to be honest. As to it being a shooter, it's funny, I don't think I have actually used any weapons for over a month. Arcade shooter, nope, spreadsheet shooter, nope, not for me. Of course it can be if you decide to play it like that, but that is your choice.

Also what did the OCD crowd get?

 

[babelfisch]

Agreed, it’s not an arcade shooter. It’s a spreadsheet shooter full of min/maxers who spend more time obsessing over the numbers that make up their ships.

Ergo it become dull, as the OCD crowd got what they wanted.

Are you talking about Eve?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Agreed, it’s not an arcade shooter. It’s a spreadsheet shooter full of min/maxers who spend more time obsessing over the numbers that make up their ships.

Ergo it become dull, as the OCD crowd got what they wanted.

Really?

Because when I switch off all moans and complains all I get is nice space game which I can enjoy and I care little less about maxing out well anything. I am just thinking - "Will be able to take on this pirate with this ship? Do I need upgrade? What kind of upgrade might help? What kind of upgrade I can get here I can help?" and of course "Maybe I just hit and run and make system security handle my kill for me?". Because that's how I got one of missions complete with pirate king in my T-6

Problem with big space open world games is that you can make them to be whatever you want them to be. Your play style dictates how you view the game. And that's curse and blessing. Curse if you OCD and you have to be forced to drop it. Blessing if you love journeys.

 

[Skizomeuh]

This reminds me of the richness of ED's audio, and how there's many clues to find more infos about a star system through sounds

It could be interesting to go further down this route so sounds could be a tool to search for anomalies/POIs on a planet.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

You use spreadsheets? I prefer to play the game. Not too sure what you would need spreadsheets for to be honest. As to it being a shooter, it's funny, I don't think I have actually used any weapons for over a month. Arcade shooter, nope, spreadsheet shooter, nope, not for me. Of course it can be if you decide to play it like that, but that is your choice.

Also what did the OCD crowd get?

Oh no I played it more like you do. I also prefer to just play games for fun too. I was referring to people I know and grouped with who obsess over the numbers game (hence the OCD reference).

For someone who plays (played) the game for fun, I just ran out of fun.

And no I really really don’t want the game to be like Eve either. I just want to enjoy Elite, and I don’t anymore. Just my opinion fellas, I know a lot of you enjoy it the way it is.

 

[babelfisch]

Oh no I played it more like you do. I also prefer to just play games for fun too. I was referring to people I know and grouped with who obsess over the numbers game (hence the OCD reference).

For someone who plays (played) the game for fun, I just ran out of fun.

And no I really really don’t want the game to be like Eve either. I just want to enjoy Elite, and I don’t anymore. Just my opinion fellas, I know a lot of you enjoy it the way it is.

I guess you played the game for a few thousand hours, no surprise that it is no longer fun. Nothing is fun for thousands of hours, eating, sleeping, mating...

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

About 1500 hours since Beta, but it is probably one of the games I’ve enjoyed the most.

All the conjecture about me as a player has been quite wrong so far guys. No need to jump to conclusions when someone has a different opinion of the game to you.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Oh no I played it more like you do. I also prefer to just play games for fun too. I was referring to people I know and grouped with who obsess over the numbers game (hence the OCD reference).

For someone who plays (played) the game for fun, I just ran out of fun.

And no I really really don’t want the game to be like Eve either. I just want to enjoy Elite, and I don’t anymore. Just my opinion fellas, I know a lot of you enjoy it the way it is.

Fair enough. I have been playing since the beginning too, but I only play 1-3 times a week and a couple of hours each time, so I don't over do it and it leaves me with plenty to do too. I do enjoy the game as it is, but I also know that every one of us wants it improved too. I cannot wait for the better exploration mechanics, the better looking planets, the better mining mechanics. I am even interested to see how squadrons turns out and the fleet carriers.

I also desperatly want to see better combat zones, better res site with maybe something to actually fight over instead of what we have now.