Beyond C&P - Must admit I'm slightly concerned about PvP piracy outcome

[GG7]

Finding yourself in an Anarchy system while playing in OPEN SHOULD BE a sphincter clenching realization!

Sounds like FDev has gotten a clue about this aspect of the game that has long gone ignored in the PvP mechanic.

If I have to take a mission that takes me into an Anarchy system, I want to start sweating at the thought of what that might entail!

KUDOS to Frontier for pushing the game in this direction!

LONG overdue in my opinion! [up]

 

[Roybe]

It's not like there is a lack of stations available to dock in this game...

Did you think it made any sense that a player could rob a ship and dock in the station next door to rearm and sell the stolen stuff?

Actually, they WILL be able to do just that. The jurisdiction is only based on the faction in charge of system, so unless a nearby system cotains the faction holding the note...the player is free to move about unhindered.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's marked as stolen in your hold. Why should a pirate get to sell marked stolen goods at market price? They are fencing their goods...they should have to pay the piper to sell those goods out.



Right...it is on a per ship basis.

Again why would they be considered stolen in a lawless jurisdiction. They should only be considered stolen in places with security where you need to fence your goods. In anarchy systems there is no jurisdiction to tell if they are stolen ot not. Why should they fence items in a place where there is no law against murder?

 

[bigity]

You won't lose station facility access to all stations. Jurisdiction is still a thing.
and...
FDev want to stimulate Pirates using anarchy systems. I think that is exactly what is needed.

It seems if that were the case, there would be a system to encourage that. Instead of all punishments and no incentive for anyone to be in Anarchy systems.

 

[Roybe]

Finding yourself in an Anarchy system while playing in OPEN SHOULD BE a sphincter clenching realization!

Sounds like FDev has gotten a clue about this aspect of the game that has long gone ignored in the PvP mechanic.

If I have to take a mission that takes me into an Anarchy system, I want to start sweating at the thought of what that might entail!

KUDOS to Frontier for pushing the game in this direction!

LONG overdue in my opinion! [up]

It should do this in all the modes...not just Open. So MoM™ better have her A game running...because the only way this whole thing works is if the NPC's are truly harsh in Anarchy systems.

 

[GG7]

You have NEVER been able to get cargo by blowing up a ship.

Huh?

What game have you been playing?

Cargo is always left behind on ship destruction.

 

[bigity]

This. I loved how Adam said that anarchies should become THE thing in new C&P system.

In like 2021 when they get around to the positive changes for pirates?

 

[GG7]

It should do this in all the modes...not just Open. So MoM™ better have her A game running...because the only way this whole thing works is if the NPC's are truly harsh in Anarchy systems.

That works for me as well.

I just assumed that since Anarchy systems will soon be the only bastion for PvP mayhem, OPEN would be the mode where Anarchy systems truly came into their own, and lived up to their moniker.

 

[bigity]

Huh?

What game have you been playing?

Cargo is always left behind on ship destruction.

No.

NPCs will sometimes drop cargo in an effort to get you to not kill them (or cargo door damage) BEFORE they pop. Destroyed ships drop no cargo from their hold when they go boom. Never have.

 

[NeilF]

It’s not about being nice or mean Pirates. It’s about laws within systems and consequences for breaking them. If a system says it’s illegal to shoot limpets at a ship here, then a CMDR can make their descision.

An anarchies are anything goes, I like where their heads are there.

The risk vs reward does need some tweaking. Trade or coutrier missions to anarchy should be higher.

Pirate targets in high security systems should be carrying more high value rare goods that can’t be purchased.

Anarchy systems should have high value missions located in high sec systems.

Strange... I thought it was all about good game mechanics to result in a good game outcome?

So a CG is delivering X to Y to any system with security. As a PvP pirate I like the notion of trying to steal X, and then delivering it to Y. How can I now do that? If I threaten violence, the victim now knows there's even more penalties against me, and if I simply use the new limpets (which are not even fit for purpose in truth) I then cannot go to the station to sell the goods for the CG?


Am I understanding that right? It seems that this a hammer to crack a nut mechanic?

Am I missing something? I hope so Because the above was poorly paid as it was, and now it's just got added faff and pain

Hopefully I'm misunderstanding this as it simply just screws piracy over even more

 

[bigity]

Why would any commodity be marked as stolen in a lawless jurisdiction. They will not care if it is stolen or not. In fact I would have it in anarchies that any stolen goods are treated as not stolen.

That's a good start.

 

[Roybe]

Again why would they be considered stolen in a lawless jurisdiction. They should only be considered stolen in places with security where you need to fence your goods. In anarchy systems there is no jurisdiction to tell if they are stolen ot not. Why should they fence items in a place where there is no law against murder?

We'll have to agree to disagree. In the game, ill gotten goods seem to be marked as such...and selling them means someone is going to have to do something about that marking....which should increase the fences cost...requiring a lowering of the price offered...to recoup those associated costs. Anarchic places have economic pressures...they are just backwards to other markets....moving stolen goods is still dangerous regardless of the legal system that is in charge...just because an anarchy might overlook the purchase...they still have to resell the goods. It just depends on if they are permanently marked as such....I have never seen a way to change the designation of the legality of cargo...and assume that regardless of where you go..the only way to get rid of it is to fence it.

 

[bigity]

Anarchies will become populated because they will be the only place to sell ill gotten goods and get your bounties 'fixed'.

I doubt they will have a higher payout...and honestly, should always pay substantially less than the market price.

This is the discussion between fencing and smuggling.

Fences pay pennies on the dollar because they have to get rid of 'hot goods'...at substantial risk to themselves.

Smuggling is providing supply to a pent up demand for the good....so should always provide a decent markup IF the demand IS pent up.



Until the criminal retains a 'large number of bounties' then is blackballed by the whole of the Superpower that was offended.

Do your crimes in a cheaper ship basically. And don't die where you have bounties I guess.

Or only attack PP flagged ships

 

[bigity]

It should do this in all the modes...not just Open. So MoM™ better have her A game running...because the only way this whole thing works is if the NPC's are truly harsh in Anarchy systems.

Should be just as harsh anywhere, regardless.

 

[askavir]

Strange... I thought it was all about good game mechanics to result in a good game outcome?

So a CG is delivering X to Y to any system with security. As a PvP pirate I like the notion of trying to steal X, and then delivering it to Y. How can I now do that? If I threaten violence, the victim now knows there's even more penalties against me, and if I simply use the new limpets (which are not even fit for purpose in truth) I then cannot go to the station to sell the goods for the CG?


Am I understanding that right? It seems that this a hammer to crack a nut mechanic?

Am I missing something? I hope so Because the above was poorly paid as it was, and now it's just got added faff and pain

You can't contribute to the CG that way (and you never could because commodity markets don't accept stolen cargo), because you're a wanted thief with a bounty on your head and you're actively sabotaging the CG effort by preying on all the haulers trying it to move the CG forward, so obviously the station doesn't welcome you with open arms.

You can still sell your stolen cargo elsewhere for profit in a place you're not wanted. Like an actual pirate.

You're trying to create a problem out of thin air.

 

[NeilF]

It's not like there is a lack of stations available to dock in this game...

There is if you're stealing cargo from individuals at a CG. This is a very likely place to pirate?

Did you think it made any sense that a player could rob a ship and dock in the station next door to rearm and sell the stolen stuff?

If they don't scan you? Yes!

You can't contribute to the CG that way (and you never could because commodity markets don't accept stolen cargo), because you're a wanted thief with a bounty on your head and you're actively sabotaging the CG effort by preying on all the haulers trying it to move the CG forward, so obviously the station doesn't welcome you with open arms.

You can still sell your stolen cargo elsewhere for profit in a place you're not wanted. Like an actual pirate.

You're trying to create a problem out of thin air.

Strange! I've been doing this exact thing for years! Extracting cargo by threats (can then get legal cargo). Or by limpet and selling at black market (if there's one).

The reason NOT to sell the cargo elsewhere is that it's worth even less elsewhere (because you're not contributing towards the CG total - so no bonus).



It feels like there's no scale to this. ie: Once you misbehave badly enough, you lose facilities. Instead of misbehave at all and you lose facilities.

 

[askavir]

There is if you're stealing cargo from individuals at a CG. This is a very likely place to pirate?

Pirate in the CG system, sell the goods in the system next door where you're not wanted. What's so terribly complicated about it?

 

[DaggerSnake]

Strange... I thought it was all about good game mechanics to result in a good game outcome?

So a CG is delivering X to Y to any system with security. As a PvP pirate I like the notion of trying to steal X, and then delivering it to Y. How can I now do that? If I threaten violence, the victim now knows there's even more penalties against me, and if I simply use the new limpets (which are not even fit for purpose in truth) I then cannot go to the station to sell the goods for the CG?


Am I understanding that right? It seems that this a hammer to crack a nut mechanic?

Am I missing something? I hope so Because the above was poorly paid as it was, and now it's just got added faff and pain

Hopefully I'm misunderstanding this as it simply just screws piracy over even more

I don’t follow. What you said is how piracy should be. You can’t just commit a crime (steal the goods) in a system that has the security in place to detect those hot goods.

Now they didn’t talk about scale of deterants. Except for listening up friendly fire. You assume a limpet theft will equate to a full on kill? That’s all feedback we need to provide in beta.

A CG in a security system shouldn’t be a place pirate want to “have a notion to pirate in”. A CG in an OPEN Anarchy system will be a nightmare, and should be.

I agree the payouts need to scale with risk.

 

[Kaocraft]

Seeing as how you will be able to pay off your own Bounties, I'd say things just got a whole lot easier for would-be pirates.

 

[bigity]

Pirate in the CG system, sell the goods in the system next door where you're not wanted. What's so terribly complicated about it?

No credit for the CG probably is why he wouldn't want to.

Seeing as how you will be able to pay off your own Bounties, I'd say things just got a whole lot easier for would-be pirates.

Except it is a huge loss to actually pirate players. And pirating NPCs is a laughable way to earn credits too.