Beyond C&P - Must admit I'm slightly concerned about PvP piracy outcome

There is if you're stealing cargo from individuals at a CG. This is a very likely place to pirate?



If they don't scan you? Yes!



Strange! I've been doing this exact thing for years! Extracting cargo by threats (can then get legal cargo). Or by limpet and selling at black market (if there's one).

The reason NOT to sell the cargo elsewhere is that it's worth even less elsewhere (because you're not contributing towards the CG total - so no bonus).

The extraction through threat will still work...

...using a limpet becomes a problem if you do it in the CG system. But it doesn't help you in the CG....

But, yeah, piracy in the CG system is now effectively closed down...if you use limpets on your target.
 
You can't contribute to the CG that way (and you never could because commodity markets don't accept stolen cargo), because you're a wanted thief with a bounty on your head and you're actively sabotaging the CG effort by preying on all the haulers trying it to move the CG forward, so obviously the station doesn't welcome you with open arms.

You can still sell your stolen cargo elsewhere for profit in a place you're not wanted. Like an actual pirate.

You're trying to create a problem out of thin air.

I've used stolen cargo for CG participation many times.
 
I don’t follow. What you said is how piracy should be. You can’t just commit a crime (steal the goods) in a system that has the security in place to detect those hot goods.

Now they didn’t talk about scale of deterants. Except for listening up friendly fire. You assume a limpet theft will equate to a full on kill? That’s all feedback we need to provide in beta.

A CG in a security system shouldn’t be a place pirate want to “have a notion to pirate in”. A CG in an OPEN Anarchy system will be a nightmare, and should be.

I agree the payouts need to scale with risk.

Now you said something there! You implied a destruction loses you station facilities... I was under the impression any bounty did. eg: Shoot a limpet at someone, and you'll then lose station facilities. Did I misunderstand?

On your next point? You're suggesting pirating a low security CG still shouldn't be viable? All security should really affect is the speed/scale of security force response to a crime surely?
 

Powderpanic

Banned
Piracy should be a friendly affair for the benefit of the traders enjoyment of Elite

jake-and-the-neverland-pirates-clip-art-on-line-jack-1510639.png
 

Powderpanic

Banned
Punishment and Punishment mechanics aren't going to reduce ganking but hey nice try!

Tbh its not going to damage piracy any more than Trading being a side thought now into how to earn credits in Elite and oh.. Combat logging.. Lets not forget that Gem.

Fake news...

The rebuys on the ships we never lose will just go up and we will continue to stare at suns and wait for the random T6 to wander into system.

World turns.. ED continues to fail at creating content.
 
Now you said something there! You implied a destruction loses you station facilities... I was under the impression any bounty did. eg: Shoot a limpet at someone, and you'll then lose station facilities. Did I misunderstand?

On your next point? You're suggesting pirating a low security CG still shouldn't be viable? All security should really affect is the speed/scale of security force response to a crime surely?
Yes, I think that system security should reflect speed and scale. It also reflects what’s allowed and not allowed. It should just basically give a general idea of the Crime and Punishment in a system. Stolen goods should be considered to be detectable and reported stolen, a ship committing an act considered a crime by the controlling faction of a station doesn’t get to enjoy all the facilities.

So will there be the ability to just not get caught? Is you ship clean if you leave no witness and jump out before security arrive? Do we have to be scanned by security to be considered hot? If we haven’t been scanned can we silent into a Star port and land without anonymous? (Maybe a new module to mask identity on docking request)

Nothing was said about limpets and their affect on a CMDRs status change relating to the jurisdiction they are used in.

We should test all this in beta next week!
 
So will there be the ability to just not get caught? Is you ship clean if you leave no witness and jump out before security arrive? Do we have to be scanned by security to be considered hot? If we haven’t been scanned can we silent into a Star port and land without anonymous? (Maybe a new module to mask identity on docking request)

Nothing was said about limpets and their affect on a CMDRs status change relating to the jurisdiction they are used in.

We should test all this in beta next week!

I doubt you will be able to avoid any of it, but we'll see I guess.
 
Only if the crime earns you an even remotely even amount, which it doesn't typically.

Maybe if we see alot of missions in anarchy factions paying for pirated cargo at markups, etc. Not going to hold my breath.
 

Powderpanic

Banned
No credit for the CG probably is why he wouldn't want to.

Beat me to it.

The new Punishment and Punishment system kills CG Piracy for the CG Reward.

It was something that made Piracy really profitable and was actually fun.

Pirate the traders, dodge the gank squads.

Cheers FDEV
 
No credit for the CG probably is why he wouldn't want to.



Except it is a huge loss to actually pirate players. And pirating NPCs is a laughable way to earn credits too.

Right, but that was already the case. To the extent that there has been a change, it has been towards making piracy better and easier. It still is a pointless worthless waste of time, but not any *more* so than before.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree. In the game, ill gotten goods seem to be marked as such...and selling them means someone is going to have to do something about that marking....which should increase the fences cost...requiring a lowering of the price offered...to recoup those associated costs. Anarchic places have economic pressures...they are just backwards to other markets....moving stolen goods is still dangerous regardless of the legal system that is in charge...just because an anarchy might overlook the purchase...they still have to resell the goods. It just depends on if they are permanently marked as such....I have never seen a way to change the designation of the legality of cargo...and assume that regardless of where you go..the only way to get rid of it is to fence it.

I ask again, why would there need to be a fence in an anarchy system? It doesn't matter if it is stolen or not in an anarchy as there is no need for a fence. They will not need to resell it. These places need all the trade and materials they can get as normal trade will be minimal as most traders will stay away from anarchy systems as they would be too dangerous.

Buying in an anarchy shouldn't be cost effective either as they need all the stuff, so it should be high sell prices but even higher buy prices. It makes perfect sense.

Fences should only be in places where there is security.
 
Sandro has stated in the past that he wants "proper" piracy that tries to avoid even assault as much as possible. For now, what is being addresses is murder, with theft being where it was and maybe getting some collateral damage. Try it during beta.
Yeah. Stealing and even shooting someone without destroying them should only be fines and not remove facility access, while killing another commander should be a crime (in hi-sec system). And I believe they're aiming at something like that.
 
@sleutelbos - I resent piracy and anarchy being lumped into the same bucket.

Piracy means robbing and stealing things.

Anarchy means that there should be no man or woman who lords over another.
(No government: - govern = regulate, control - ment = mind - so the ultimate meaning of "government" is mind control") ...go turn on your TV now.

Two extremely different ideas. The first is what people have been doing under different names and guises. The second is what people may one day ascend to...
 
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I resent piracy and anarchy being lumped into the same bucket.

Piracy means robbing and stealing things.

Anarchy means that there should be no man or woman who lords over another.
(No government: - govern = regulate, control - ment = mind - so the ultimate meaning of "government" is mind control")

Two extremely different ideas. The first is what people have been doing under different names and guises. The second is what people may one day ascend to...

+1 Totally agree with your ideals but ED is just a game after all. Aarrrrh.....Why so serious?[alien]
 
+1 Totally agree with your ideals but ED is just a game after all. Aarrrrh.....Why so serious?[alien]

Anarchy factions as described on the Mission UI page is close to this definition, but applied at a group level: e.g. faction not beholden to other faction's rule or law.

Anarchy system state means no rule or law applies. Thus, stations controlled by an Anarchy faction won't care about the wanted status or bounty imposed by another faction. A system in Anarchy state means this applies to the whole system, whether or not there are other factions in-system that imposes bounties.

So getting around to the TL:DR statement. Anarchy factions or systems will havens for pirates.
 
Why would any commodity be marked as stolen in a lawless jurisdiction. They will not care if it is stolen or not. In fact I would have it in anarchies that any stolen goods are treated as not stolen.

I think the idea is that cargo containers themselves have encrypted ID/tracking technologies in them. SO if you steal one from somewhere, the canister itself will self-flag as "stolen". If you take it to an Anarchy system, people will still care whether or not the canister they're getting from you is marked as "stolen" or not, because it limits their ability to re-sell it. If they're just planning on opening up the container and using all of it's contents right then and there--Ok no Problem--but the world of Elite Dangerous is essentially one giant network of middle-men and most commodities are likely to be re-sold somewhere else.

Consequently your stolen cargo is objectively less valuable, even to criminals, even in an anarchy system.

"But can't they just hack the cargo software and spoof the ownership data? Or can't they just take it out of the canister and load it into a new fresh one?"

Yeah they can. That's work. That's why your stolen cargo is less valuable. Even to criminals.

Or you can look at it from the reverse perspective:
If the "legit" market and the "black" market were all one thing, then that would mean when you *buy* cargo at a market in Anarchy systems, some of it would be stolen goods (and marked/transmitting as such), and if you took it anywhere outside of an Anarchy system, you would only be able to sell it at Black markets, not in regular markets. Would you be willing to pay the same prices for goods which can get you a fine or bounty, as you would pay for clean goods?
 
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