Beyond 3.0 - C&P and Wing missions

[Lucifera Danzig]

some interesting ideas for sure.. but 1 question (i missed the stream) if i have my "bad guy" ship and go on a killing spree... if i then dock and swap into a different ship, does that mean i am then 100% clean and no one can attack me without getting a bounty themselves? will a KWS still reveal all?

thanks

It won't "reveal all," but the new notoriety stat will be yours, not your ship's.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

That's good question. In new ship only thing that will stay will be Notoriety.

in which case i hope ALL modules on a "hot ship" are also flagged because i can definitely see a scenario where credit rich players will use a murder hobo ship to go on a spree, then take all their god mods off it, and put onto their other ship and carry on their way being essentially untouchable.

for those who are loaded and happy to do quince like shenanigans losing 30 mil on a base FGS hull for instance is chump change, it will be getting their G5 eng mods which will hurt. Putting one of those on a clean ship imo it is essential it must then taint the clean ship too.

It won't "reveal all," but the new notoriety stat will be yours, not your ship's.

thanks.. so will shooting a person with "bad" notoriety be fair game then, and will i get paid for that via a bounty pay out?

will npcs also have notoriety?

thanks

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

in which case i hope ALL modules on a "hot ship" are also flagged because i can definitely see a scenario where credit rich players will use a murder hobo ship to go on a spree, then take all their god mods off it, and put onto their other ship and carry on their way being essentially untouchable.

for those who are loaded and happy to do quince like shenanigans losing 30 mil on a base FGS hull for instance is chump change, it will be getting their G5 eng mods which will hurt. Putting one of those on a clean ship imo it is essential it must then taint the clean ship too.



thanks.. so will shooting a person with "bad" notoriety be fair game then, and will i get paid for that via a bounty pay out?

will npcs also have notoriety?

thanks

They didn't mention NPC notoriety, no, but you can gain it by murdering NPCs.

 

[Nerix]

So glad that they're finally implementing wing missions. Was basically the first thing me and a few buddies who got the game together recognized - why the heck can't we do that together: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/365151-Playing-missions-together

 

[Rubbernuke]

In my mind the commodity option is there for those commanders who feel like they can use the trade system to their advantage. There should be cases where players could sell these reward commodities for more than the system essentially purchased them from. Basically where the player feels they can increase the value of their reward package by taking the time to sell those reward commodities at the right system for the right amount. Of course, this is a procedural system so it's up to the player to work out if it's worth the time and effort. As with everything, the values used in all these calculations will require balancing. HOWEVER, the new system adds a lot of flexibility now as the choice is always in the player's hands.

Thanks for the post Adam!

If commodities are here to stay, is it possible to weight it so materials are offered more than commodities? Materials are much more useful and desirable- for example I hunt for CIF with missions since its very difficult to get it other ways. With the material broker, having more materials in circulation with missions would make life a lot better.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I personally want (Engineer) commodities to stay as rewards to stay, might become useful in future.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I personally want (Engineer) commodities to stay as rewards to stay, might become useful in future.

If they are here to stay, they need to be much more valuable then to be worthwhile. Most commodities have very low value when you could get a rare and make much more per allocation. But thats IMO.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

If they are here to stay, they need to be much more valuable then to be worthwhile. Most commodities have very low value when you could get a rare and make much more per allocation. But thats IMO.

Completely agreed. Use this mechanism to introduce some interesting, rare goods which are very expensive and desired. Mechanisms for them is already there, just decouple them from Engineers.

You can spawn Engineer commodities now and then, but they would be need to be required...

 

[Adam Bourke-Waite]

If they are here to stay, they need to be much more valuable then to be worthwhile. Most commodities have very low value when you could get a rare and make much more per allocation. But thats IMO.

I understand where you are coming from, hopefully you can understand that the core feature here is that you can now always choose to not have those commodities. Where before the procedural reward system told you to take these commodities, you now can always choose not to.

Adam

 

[Rubbernuke]

Completely agreed. Use this mechanism to introduce some interesting, rare goods which are very expensive and desired. Mechanisms for them is already there, just decouple them from Engineers.

You can spawn Engineer commodities now and then, but they would be need to be required...

Well, they could be rare goods for sale to engineers maybe.

I understand where you are coming from, hopefully you can understand that the core feature here is that you can now always choose to not have those commodities. Where before the procedural reward system told you to take these commodities, you now can always choose not to.

Adam

Thats cool too, choice is good!

 

[ITZC0ATL]

Morning all,

I'd like to address two conversations I have seen here:

Firstly the mission choices system will always offer credit heavy packages and then picks randomly from materials, commodities, reputation boosts and influence boosts. These other two reward packages will also come with some credits, essentially the remainder once the commodities, materials etc have been taken into account.

In my mind the commodity option is there for those commanders who feel like they can use the trade system to their advantage. There should be cases where players could sell these reward commodities for more than the system essentially purchased them from. Basically where the player feels they can increase the value of their reward package by taking the time to sell those reward commodities at the right system for the right amount. Of course, this is a procedural system so it's up to the player to work out if it's worth the time and effort. As with everything, the values used in all these calculations will require balancing. HOWEVER, the new system adds a lot of flexibility now as the choice is always in the player's hands.

A quick note on influence boost rewards and wing missions, due to the nature of this reward and the impact on the BGS only the mission owner will be offered this reward type. All players will receive baseline influence increases, but only the owner of the mission can get the increased boosted amount.



In regards to porting all missions over to the wing mission system, I don't want to do that because I want finer control. Someone suggested that low level wing missions spawn with low amounts that are suitable for solo players. However, it would actually need to cover the full range of player skill and then the full range of wing sizes and skill levels. Considering how difficult it is to balance a mission template (rewards, challange, branches etc) for just the skill range of a solo player I decided to split wing missions into their own templates that faces the challange of being balanced for either high level solo players or 2+ wingmates.

Also on a more practical standpoint it's a lot of work to port any mission over to being a wing mission, with a lot of new (and in some cases very difficult) questions needing answers. By making the wing missions new templates we allow ourselves the opportunity to solve these challenges while not impacting any of the normal missions we have in game. That way we add options for our player and don't risk taking away something players might already enjoy.



Ta,
Adam

Thanks for explaining this Adam, +1.

I had a feeling there were more technical limitations in the background than the average player realised, which is why you guys approached it from the side you did.

However, I would suggest that since the feedback from players is rather clear here for once (the more types of missions completable by wings, the better), that getting more "normal" mission templates into a wing-compatible state should be a goal to work towards.

Even if Q1 just had the templates that existed already, and then a few more added in Q2 and a few more in Q3, etc. I have no idea what content is planned for these releases of course but adding more wing mission variety is bound to be a popular move!

Over-all though, this looks awesome! So huge thanks to everyone at FDev who's been working on these

 

[andrak]

I understand where you are coming from, hopefully you can understand that the core feature here is that you can now always choose to not have those commodities. Where before the procedural reward system told you to take these commodities, you now can always choose not to.

Adam

Choice is good but now that these commodities are not used for engineering they have no purpose. Instead of 3 useful choices there are only 2. Agree with previous poster who said give more material options instead.

Change Marco's unlock requirement to a rare instead.

 

[Namsel]

I think there shouldn't be such thing as "WING missions". All kind of regular missions should be able to be shared with your WING, not just the specific ones created for that purpose. If I want to take a solo mining mission but a friend wants to protect me with his combat ship, I would share my mission so that he get paid too.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well, they could be rare goods for sale to engineers maybe.

Something that might give you some boost with them. Anyway, I like mechanic of rewarding something different than credits or rep.

 

[frostypaw]

I think there shouldn't be such thing as "WING missions". All kind of regular missions should be able to be shared with your WING, not just the specific ones created for that purpose. If I want to take a solo mining mission but a friend wants to protect me with his combat ship, I would share my mission so that he get paid too.

This. I hear that it might be difficult but maybe considering it a goal?

 

[sedilbur]

I understand where you are coming from, hopefully you can understand that the core feature here is that you can now always choose to not have those commodities. Where before the procedural reward system told you to take these commodities, you now can always choose not to.

Adam

You have both right.
Thx for the choose giving to us.
Despite, I hope reward could manage to offer more "rare" item or valuable one. I don't know, for example, palladium, gold, ... So that we can actually play with the trade system and look for a potential more profit per T.

When I see reward like nano destructors... such low paying cargo commodities... I just skip my turn almost instantly. With palladium or rare, I will probably think twice ^^

I maybe don't understand the underground/problem of the rewards generator and how easy or hard it can be to adapt.

 

[Snowymonk]

Something that hasn’t been discussed. When Ed was ‘wanted’ On the stream, he tried to dock anonymously to show off the game mechanics.

However, he was scanned and the scan turned the station against him.

Does this mean that
a) the frequency / triggering of station scans needs to be revised?
Or
b) the ‘Silent run’ mechanic needs to be looked at / beefed up?

I can imagine a lot of salt being generated if something isn’t done to this aspect of the game.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

Something that hasn’t been discussed. When Ed was ‘wanted’ On the stream, he tried to dock anonymously to show off the game mechanics.

However, he was scanned and the scan turned the station against him.

Does this mean that
a) the frequency / triggering of station scans needs to be revised?
Or
b) the ‘Silent run’ mechanic needs to be looked at / beefed up?

I can imagine a lot of salt being generated if something isn’t done to this aspect of the game.

Ed forgot to engage silent running. He derped on the gameplay, not vice versa. [big grin]

 

[ITZC0ATL]

Something that hasn’t been discussed. When Ed was ‘wanted’ On the stream, he tried to dock anonymously to show off the game mechanics.

However, he was scanned and the scan turned the station against him.

Does this mean that
a) the frequency / triggering of station scans needs to be revised?
Or
b) the ‘Silent run’ mechanic needs to be looked at / beefed up?

I can imagine a lot of salt being generated if something isn’t done to this aspect of the game.

Scans are fine as is, smuggling should still require skill. If pirates or criminals aren't prepared to have to sneak into stations, then there's no hope for them.

Ed wasn't particularly trying to avoid scans on the way in, which is why he got scanned and killed.

 

[Mengy]

In regards to porting all missions over to the wing mission system, I don't want to do that because I want finer control. Someone suggested that low level wing missions spawn with low amounts that are suitable for solo players. However, it would actually need to cover the full range of player skill and then the full range of wing sizes and skill levels. Considering how difficult it is to balance a mission template (rewards, challange, branches etc) for just the skill range of a solo player I decided to split wing missions into their own templates that faces the challange of being balanced for either high level solo players or 2+ wingmates.

Also on a more practical standpoint it's a lot of work to port any mission over to being a wing mission, with a lot of new (and in some cases very difficult) questions needing answers. By making the wing missions new templates we allow ourselves the opportunity to solve these challenges while not impacting any of the normal missions we have in game. That way we add options for our player and don't risk taking away something players might already enjoy.

Ta,
Adam

Adam, that's disappointing to hear. First, I absolutely love what Frontier has done so far with the wing missions, but do you have any concerns about introducing several new mission types into an already crowded mission board space? Because from my point of view, the player's, I fear this will just make people do even more mode & board flipping while trying to generate the missions they are looking for. I fear it will further dilute an already crowded mission board.

My suggestion to you would be this: don't worry so much about "fine tuning" the range of skill levels, simply provide said range. If you just migrated all cargo, assassination, and massacre missions to wing missions and then implemented a wide enough range in the difficulty parameters to accommodate everything from solo to wings of four, from the very easy to the extremely challenging, then the players could choose the missions based on their own situations, based on skill and player count. Most importantly though all of these missions would then be wing compatible, simplifying the mission boards and generation. It doesn't really matter if some of them would be easy in a wing, people could still play together more conveniently. Every challenge in the game doesn't have to be cutting edge or super challenging, it's also fine to implement some content of moderate difficulty to enable people to have a more casual and fun experience too.

That's my take on it. Good job so far, I just feel like Frontier is missing a huge opportunity here by not going far enough with a fantastic new mechanic.