Beyond 3.0 - C&P and Wing missions

[Lucifera Danzig]

What I'm suggesting is that you offer materials and not commodities. Credits are fine, rep is fine- but, commodities are simply a few extra credits on top so its not really a different choice. Materials are.

And there will likely be options with materials and no commodities. They specifically said there will be other types of reward choices besides the ones shown in the example mission. Like there is now. So I don't see that really being an issue.

 

[Rubbernuke]

And there will likely be options with materials and no commodities. They specifically said there will be other types of reward choices besides the ones shown in the example mission. Like there is now. So I don't see that really being an issue.

I hope FD actually follow through with that. I do a lot of engineering, and the drop rates of certain materials are pitifully low because said drop opportunities are crowded out by commodities.

 

[Barking_Mad]

As someone who wasn't particularly interested in wing missions before they were announced, I'm actually quite looking forward to doing some.

Yes, I'm going to become slightly more sociable!

 

[Hanu]

New C&P sounds that now I will be interested to be a pirate!

But what happens to bounties when you sell your pirate ship? I did not see that case addressed.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

I hope FD actually follow through with that. I do a lot of engineering, and the drop rates of certain materials are pitifully low because said drop opportunities are crowded out by commodities.

This is where that materials exchange is going to be very, very useful for players who do a lot of engineering. And that means reduction of the number of missions you'll have to do overall. I'm intrigued to see how that's going to work, honestly.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This is where that materials exchange is going to be very, very useful for players who do a lot of engineering. And that means reduction of the number of missions you'll have to do overall. I'm intrigued to see how that's going to work, honestly.

I am too, but I'm concerned the mat broker is a sticking plaster on a much bigger problem- it means that I'll simply be hoovering up anything I can get simply to swap it, rather than actually play missions that I care about. This approach then cheapens the whole process, and renders individual materials pointless as everything becomes coal to be made into diamonds.

 

[Barking_Mad]

With Notoriety, I hope they will consider expanding on it in future Episodes. One obvious area of expansion would be to have a seperate Notoriety Counter for each Super Power, & another one is have it cover *all* criminal activities, but with varying point counts depending on the crime. Trespass or Loitering may gain only 0.5 points each, whereas Murder might score 3 points each.

Lastly, Notoriety could also tie in to how Faction NPC's treat you. ATC might delay your access to the Station, Security Ships might be tardy turning up to help you if you get attacked. Security Ships might be more inclined to interdict you and/or scan your ship.

Indeed, notoriety could really help to enhance the roleplaying experience.

You could have some high ranking missions that only trigger when a player has a specific notoriety level.

Actually it would be nice if they gave notoriety rankings rather than just numbers?

 

[Rubbernuke]

You could have some high ranking missions that only trigger when a player has a specific notoriety level.

Actually it would be nice if they gave notoriety rankings rather than just numbers?

A while ago I suggested that a high notoriety meant NPCs dropped cargo faster. It would also be fun to have the notoriety level adjust NPC responses to you. "Its him!" type of stuff.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

You could have some high ranking missions that only trigger when a player has a specific notoriety level.

Actually it would be nice if they gave notoriety rankings rather than just numbers?

Well, if it is a number, they can scale it for rankings. And yes, I would like it to flow into other parts of the game too. Fingers crossed it is re-usable.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

A while ago I suggested that a high notoriety meant NPCs dropped cargo faster. It would also be fun to have the notoriety level adjust NPC responses to you. "Its him!" type of stuff.

Or syssec doesn't bother sending rookies in and sends ATF instead right away.

 

[Osbo89]

We'll see how it works in the beta but for myself...

... I am just hoping to see huge distance missions (for example 200-300LY delivery of 2400 tons of basic meds in emergency) for greater payout that I will enjoy doing on my own.

Yes a lot more of this would be great.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

I am too, but I'm concerned the mat broker is a sticking plaster on a much bigger problem- it means that I'll simply be hoovering up anything I can get simply to swap it, rather than actually play missions that I care about. This approach then cheapens the whole process, and renders individual materials pointless as everything becomes coal to be made into diamonds.

If that's all they did was add the exchange, then yes, it'd be a mess. But they're balancing across the board here. First they showed us we can opt out of rewards we don't want, making it easier to deal with missions. Next livestream they'll be detailing the whole engineering revamp, including the storage and the exchange. I'm thinking you can't just load up on sulfur by the thousands of units and exchange for cracked industrial firmware. It'll likely be by steps, and by type (data for data, prospected mineral for mineral.) We'll find out for sure when they do the next livestream.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If that's all they did was add the exchange, then yes, it'd be a mess. But they're balancing across the board here. First they showed us we can opt out of rewards we don't want, making it easier to deal with missions. Next livestream they'll be detailing the whole engineering revamp, including the storage and the exchange. I'm thinking you can't just load up on sulfur by the thousands of units and exchange for cracked industrial firmware. It'll likely be by steps, and by type (data for data, prospected mineral for mineral.) We'll find out for sure when they do the next livestream.

That we will, I'll be watching with interest

 

[Barking_Mad]

Well, if it is a number, they can scale it for rankings. And yes, I would like it to flow into other parts of the game too. Fingers crossed it is re-usable.

I'd imagine it's possible to spawn missions based on the notoriety value or rank.

I suggested some a while ago that there could be some 'special BGS altering missions' that are triggered under specific circumstances. Having seen the notoriety rating, this might be an example. So for instance you hit a notoriety value of 10 or 'Death Lord' and an anarchy faction will issue a special mission one off mission to take out the leader of an opposing faction resulting in a larger swing of faction influence, or perhaps triggering war.

This might actually be pretty cool as then pirates in Anarchy systems could propel previously stable ones into turmoil, war/civil war etc.

 

[Cosmos]

Hi there,

I'm not a designer, so it's difficult to really speak to design reasons, but the easy answer is wing-enabled missions are balanced for being completed by multiple people whearas normal missions are not.

Most missions, where you could benefit from multiple people being with you, you can already complete with help from your wing (all the ones which require ship/skimmer kills already take into account whether the "killer" was in a wing with you so you don't get kills stolen by wing members) but we don't duplicate out rewards to everyone because the effort required is expected to be that of a single player.

With wing missions, the effort is increased to expect multiple people to be required (though you can attempt them on your own and I expect some of the super awesome pilots out there to surprise us) and so, I beleive, the rewards are generally intended to be greater and we duplicate them out to each player involved.

Thanks,
Dom

Are there any new things to do? Or are we just going to be doing the same old boilerplate missions we've been doing for the past three years, but with our friends?

Coz if thats the case, this does seem somewhat low effort. It strikes me as a trivial addition thats three years too late.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Are there any new things to do? Or are we just going to be doing the same old boilerplate missions we've been doing for the past three years, but with our friends?

Coz if thats the case, this does seem somewhat low effort. It strikes me as a trivial addition thats three years too late.

"Low effort" - as opposed to sniping on bulletin boards?

 

[Adam Bourke-Waite]

Morning all,

I'd like to address two conversations I have seen here:

Firstly the mission choices system will always offer credit heavy packages and then picks randomly from materials, commodities, reputation boosts and influence boosts. These other two reward packages will also come with some credits, essentially the remainder once the commodities, materials etc have been taken into account.

In my mind the commodity option is there for those commanders who feel like they can use the trade system to their advantage. There should be cases where players could sell these reward commodities for more than the system essentially purchased them from. Basically where the player feels they can increase the value of their reward package by taking the time to sell those reward commodities at the right system for the right amount. Of course, this is a procedural system so it's up to the player to work out if it's worth the time and effort. As with everything, the values used in all these calculations will require balancing. HOWEVER, the new system adds a lot of flexibility now as the choice is always in the player's hands.

A quick note on influence boost rewards and wing missions, due to the nature of this reward and the impact on the BGS only the mission owner will be offered this reward type. All players will receive baseline influence increases, but only the owner of the mission can get the increased boosted amount.



In regards to porting all missions over to the wing mission system, I don't want to do that because I want finer control. Someone suggested that low level wing missions spawn with low amounts that are suitable for solo players. However, it would actually need to cover the full range of player skill and then the full range of wing sizes and skill levels. Considering how difficult it is to balance a mission template (rewards, challange, branches etc) for just the skill range of a solo player I decided to split wing missions into their own templates that faces the challange of being balanced for either high level solo players or 2+ wingmates.

Also on a more practical standpoint it's a lot of work to port any mission over to being a wing mission, with a lot of new (and in some cases very difficult) questions needing answers. By making the wing missions new templates we allow ourselves the opportunity to solve these challenges while not impacting any of the normal missions we have in game. That way we add options for our player and don't risk taking away something players might already enjoy.



Ta,
Adam

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

C&P - I am very convinced this will solve some of issues with consequences in game. Not all of them, not at once, but it is quite a good start. New addition of notoriety will address some of combat logging. Overall feeling very good about this. Very important to balance friendly fire though.

Wing missions - loving direction, because I hate 'special' wing content, but interface for mass delivery and potentially god like NPCs (similar to Thargoids) for Assassination wing missions sounds very nice direction. If mechanic works, it can be extended to lot of directions.

I also like 'Anonymous access' icon shown on nav panel.

some interesting ideas for sure.. but 1 question (i missed the stream) if i have my "bad guy" ship and go on a killing spree... if i then dock and swap into a different ship, does that mean i am then 100% clean and no one can attack me without getting a bounty themselves? will a KWS still reveal all?

thanks

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I personally think more important is to take more difficult missions - like planetary missions or completely new multi stage missions - and make them multi role for wing - than making every mission wing scalable. Thanks Adam.

some interesting ideas for sure.. but 1 question (i missed the stream) if i have my "bad guy" ship and go on a killing spree... if i then dock and swap into a different ship, does that mean i am then 100% clean and no one can attack me without getting a bounty themselves? will a KWS still reveal all?

thanks

That's good question. In new ship only thing that will stay will be Notoriety.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Morning all,

I'd like to address two conversations I have seen here:

Firstly the mission choices system will always offer credit heavy packages and then picks randomly from materials, commodities, reputation boosts and influence boosts. These other two reward packages will also come with some credits, essentially the remainder once the commodities, materials etc have been taken into account.

In my mind the commodity option is there for those commanders who feel like they can use the trade system to their advantage. There should be cases where players could sell these reward commodities for more than the system essentially purchased them from. Basically where the player feels they can increase the value of their reward package by taking the time to sell those reward commodities at the right system for the right amount. Of course, this is a procedural system so it's up to the player to work out if it's worth the time and effort. As with everything, the values used in all these calculations will require balancing. HOWEVER, the new system adds a lot of flexibility now as the choice is always in the player's hands.

A quick note on influence boost rewards and wing missions, due to the nature of this reward and the impact on the BGS only the mission owner will be offered this reward type. All players will receive baseline influence increases, but only the owner of the mission can get the increased boosted amount.



In regards to porting all missions over to the wing mission system, I don't want to do that because I want finer control. Someone suggested that low level wing missions spawn with low amounts that are suitable for solo players. However, it would actually need to cover the full range of player skill and then the full range of wing sizes and skill levels. Considering how difficult it is to balance a mission template (rewards, challange, branches etc) for just the skill range of a solo player I decided to split wing missions into their own templates that faces the challange of being balanced for either high level solo players or 2+ wingmates.

Also on a more practical standpoint it's a lot of work to port any mission over to being a wing mission, with a lot of new (and in some cases very difficult) questions needing answers. By making the wing missions new templates we allow ourselves the opportunity to solve these challenges while not impacting any of the normal missions we have in game. That way we add options for our player and don't risk taking away something players might already enjoy.



Ta,
Adam

Hi

are getting npcs to help with wing missions something which is on the table, or are you not interested in that feature any more? (or at the moment?)

(well i had to try )

thanks