Beyond C&P - Must admit I'm slightly concerned about PvP piracy outcome

[Gaiseric]

Because people will camp prisons because people will be guaranteed thrown there and will fly out.

No such guarantees can be made about other places in galaxy.

People coming out of prison will already faced their penalty, having guaranteed PvP attack when coming out of prison would be just a bit too excessive.

The very people that pick on less well armed craft than them get special protection by being taken out of open? That doesn't seem right to me. If their enemies are camped there waiting, let them face up to them.

...or mode switch like the cowardly pirate dogs they are.

 

[Lecitron]

Huh? Care to elaborate on this? I mean I wouldn't want to seem to be calling you out for spouting nonsense and pointless unfounded generalisations, but...

So, how am I, and players like me, the reason for players moving to solo/group?


Go on, this is going to be a really good read folks. I can feel it. (Or maybe he'll wisely just stop posting now?)

I told you before, you want to do criminal acts without consequences.

You can sell all stuff and be relativity safe on anarchy systems, without problems. In 2 or 3 jumps you are in one.

Pirate and murder are now without penalties, if fact, legal players suffer a lot more than you.

Is the reason that a lot of players abandoned solo mode.

 

[Rampant]

Because it's almost not profitable now?


I can earn more on a super safe cargo/passenger run in 20 minutes than I've probably earned in total all the numerous hours I've ever done PvP Piracy.

Indeed, probably one of the CMDRs I inconveniences for 3 minutes for say 20t of their cargo probably earned more on that one CG in question, than I've earned in total in all the hours I've ever done PvP Piracy.

Meanwhile, while being a Pirate, I've been damaged and seen rebuys, so almost certainly, I'm probably down on CRs.


So, explain once again, "this illogical demand that it be more profitable?"

Because I'm confused. While I don't expect it to earn a fortune through Piracy, is it too much that the game at least provides mechanics to at least offer a sensible reward, without individiuals then throwing their arms up in the air for quite literally no reason at this quite reasonable request?

At this stage, it's probably a case of "if you don't understand it now, then no words I use will likely allow you to understand anyway", but hey, I'll give it a try...


As a pirate, you are engaging in an activity *for fun* (and at the direct expense of other players). The *fun* should be it's own reward. It sounds like you do not find cargo hauling to be fun for yourself, but you *require* other players to do this hauling in order that you can prey from them. Do you actually believe that the other player finds the negative consequences of your activity to be "fun". The answer of course is NO. The symbiosis here is that you get your fun at the other guy's expense. If you want credits, then you *ought* to be prepared to do what you find not to be fun and go cargo hauling, because this is what you expect from other players. You want fun and credits, while taking credits away from the other player, but sounds like you are not prepared to accept anything that you don't find to be fun - which is exactly what you are doing to those you want to extort. This is called hypocrisy. In order to be not hypocritical, you either accept the reduction of your fun or the reduction of your credits, just like you expect the other player to accept. Is it sinking in yet?

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[Lecitron]

At this stage, it's probably a case of "if you don't understand it now, then no words I use will likely allow you to understand anyway", but hey, I'll give it a try...


As a pirate, you are engaging in an activity *for fun* (and at the direct expense of other players). The *fun* should be it's own reward. It sounds like you do not find cargo hauling to be fun for yourself, but you *require* other players to do this hauling in order that you can prey from them. Do you actually believe that the other player finds the negative consequences of your activity to be "fun". The answer of course is NO. The symbiosis here is that you get your fun at the other guy's expense. If you want credits, then you *ought* to be prepared to do what you find not to be fun and go cargo hauling, because this is what you expect from other players. You want fun and credits, while taking credits away from the other player, but sounds like you are not prepared to accept anything that you don't find to be fun - which is exactly what you are doing to those you want to extort. This is called hypocrisy. In order to be not hypocritical, you either accept the reduction of your fun or the reduction of your credits, just like you expect the other player to accept. Is it sinking in yet?

Yours Aye

Mark H

Well explained, sir.

 

[Lecitron]

Look out. Blood's in the water and the carebears are turning on each other!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...7eWxWEifAY-i9rLq8BUg_9zRkPYNJmM=w530-h298-p-k

But all I wrote is true or not?

 

[Sylveria]

Look out. Blood's in the water and the carebears are turning on each other!

Perfect example of stereotypical labeling and generalization.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

No crime or punishment will stop me or my team. First day of the release we are going to massacare Eravate.

Bring it on. The salt.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Firstly, I didn't like the remark about criminals affecting the bgs and Frontier wanting that to stop, I am willing to accept that was badly worded but I want criminals, as we once famously did, to turn systems into lawless hell holes if we can.
…

I think that remark was more about using NPC killing as an easy and quick way to massively affect the BGS in a negative way. If I remember the context of that comment of Sandro it was about those special tactical response NPCs. More about using a "bug" in the BGS, than criminal behavior of players.
I think that is a good thing, but there should be a big overhaul of the BGS system (amount/transaction problem).

 

[Julio Montega]

Being a Pirate Lord, this may surprise some of you, but I agree with 99% of the crime and punishment so far.

Pirates don't want to be killers because of the golden goose and all that.

I like the idea that we have to go to lawless systems to operate from.

But there are a a couple of things I would change.

Firstly, I didn't like the remark about criminals affecting the bgs and Frontier wanting that to stop, I am willing to accept that was badly worded but I want criminals, as we once famously did, to turn systems into lawless hell holes if we can.

Secondly, revenge should be a thing. So I wouldn't want a 'safe zone' around the prisons. Vigilant justice and all that.

Anopheles
etc, etc, etc,

Heh, look at the BGS:
Black market transactions in ANARCHY hurt the ANARCHY faction....
What clearer statement do people need to see, how left to rot
criminality in this game is and has been since release?

Don't get me wrong, the punishment changes don't sound bad,
but where is the essential crime?
Why do i have to sign up for biowaste and toxic waste thefts of grand
quantities, instead of getting missions for notorious specialists paying
a premium with high difficulty but also highest reward and small cargo quantity?

Being able to select reputation rewards now?
Wow, does it even do something apart from rank grind
or permit grind?
If FD really wants to add conequences, they have to do it
on a general basis, not just castrating piracy and other criminal jobs
further.

 

[Jukelo]

At this stage, it's probably a case of "if you don't understand it now, then no words I use will likely allow you to understand anyway", but hey, I'll give it a try...


As a pirate, you are engaging in an activity *for fun* (and at the direct expense of other players). The *fun* should be it's own reward. It sounds like you do not find cargo hauling to be fun for yourself, but you *require* other players to do this hauling in order that you can prey from them. Do you actually believe that the other player finds the negative consequences of your activity to be "fun". The answer of course is NO. The symbiosis here is that you get your fun at the other guy's expense. If you want credits, then you *ought* to be prepared to do what you find not to be fun and go cargo hauling, because this is what you expect from other players. You want fun and credits, while taking credits away from the other player, but sounds like you are not prepared to accept anything that you don't find to be fun - which is exactly what you are doing to those you want to extort. This is called hypocrisy. In order to be not hypocritical, you either accept the reduction of your fun or the reduction of your credits, just like you expect the other player to accept. Is it sinking in yet?

Yours Aye

Mark H

Although I don't share Neilf's concerns, the C&P changes will impact PVE pirates just as much as they will impact PVP pirates, so the line of reasoning, even if it had any merit, that PVP pirates must pay with their own fun (and poverty) for the net loss in 'fun' they inflict on other players, would impact a lot of players innocent of what you accuse PVPers of. The idea that fun is reward enough is ridiculous, at least in a context where any other advertised activity isn't held to that standard.

Now on the actual point that pirates take away from your fun: they don't, they add to the fun, if Frontier thought getting pirated couldn't be fun it wouldn't be part of the multiplayer experience. If any of the possible and legal interactions in Open retracts from your fun - and piracy is very much an expected and normal interaction - you have the responsibility to either not pick Open as your game mode, or accept that occasionally your expectations will conflict with what the game is trying to do.

It makes perfect sense that, as Frontier seeks to further raise the skill/effort floor for taking part in piracy, pirates should ask for better rewards to go with that (and 'fun' is something that should be a given regardless of the activity you decide to take part in, not a factor balanced against the reward)

 

[Siobhan]

but where is the essential crime?

For all that E: D gives you the opportunity for crime, it is in no way essential, and never will be.

 

[Lecitron]

Heh, look at the BGS:
Black market transactions in ANARCHY hurt the ANARCHY faction....
What clearer statement do people need to see, how left to rot
criminality in this game is and has been since release?

Don't get me wrong, the punishment changes don't sound bad,
but where is the essential crime?
Why do i have to sign up for biowaste and toxic waste thefts of grand
quantities, instead of getting missions for notorious specialists paying
a premium with high difficulty but also highest reward and small cargo quantity?

Being able to select reputation rewards now?
Wow, does it even do something apart from rank grind
or permit grind?
If FD really wants to add conequences, they have to do it
on a general basis, not just castrating piracy and other criminal jobs
further.

Castrating or making it close to reality?

Think about it.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Heh, look at the BGS:
Black market transactions in ANARCHY hurt the ANARCHY faction....
…

Anarchy system shouldn't have black markets at all. Stolen commodities should be able to be sold on the regular market. Maybe some things that even an anarchy faction might think are bad for them might be illegal and therefore a black market might exist (thinking of UAs and things like that).
Most commodities should be freely sell and buyable.

But then the government type system so so barebones that a lot of it doesn't really make that much sense. Anarchy just being the most obvious "not making sense" government types.

 

[Julio Montega]

For all that E: D gives you the opportunity for crime, it is in no way essential, and never will be.

From the official frontier website:
"Meet the galaxy’s needs with trade, piracy or smuggling."
https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/

So it is a criminal subjob of trade.
Is trading and all branches now non-essential?

Castrating or making it close to reality?

Think about it.

Castrating, close to reality would allow to contract players
to steal stuff or kill people for horrendous amounts of money,
also we would be the guys actually faking our IDs and so on.
We would be the ones that would actually "provide services".

 

[Siobhan]

From the official frontier website:
"Meet the galaxy’s needs with trade, piracy or smuggling."
https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/

So it is a criminal subjob of trade.
Is trading and all branches now non-essential?

You can meet a need through crime, but that doesn't make crime essential, since the same need can be met with more honest trade.
It's just a badly worded advertisement.

Without trade, civilisation would fall apart.
Without crime, civilisation just gets better.
Without politicians, we get utopia.

 

[Lecitron]

Although I don't share Neilf's concerns, the C&P changes will impact PVE pirates just as much as they will impact PVP pirates, so the line of reasoning, even if it had any merit, that PVP pirates must pay with their own fun (and poverty) for the net loss in 'fun' they inflict on other players, would impact a lot of players innocent of what you accuse PVPers of. The idea that fun is reward enough is ridiculous, at least in a context where any other advertised activity isn't held to that standard.

Now on the actual point that pirates take away from your fun: they don't, they add to the fun, if Frontier thought getting pirated couldn't be fun it wouldn't be part of the multiplayer experience. If any of the possible and legal interactions in Open retracts from your fun - and piracy is very much an expected and normal interaction - you have the responsibility to either not pick Open as your game mode, or accept that occasionally your expectations will conflict with what the game is trying to do.

It makes perfect sense that, as Frontier seeks to further raise the skill/effort floor for taking part in piracy, pirates should ask for better rewards to go with that (and 'fun' is something that should be a given regardless of the activity you decide to take part in, not a factor balanced against the reward)

Why is it so ridiculous? Is playing a role ridiculous? It is the core of people's fun, at least in this game....

From the official frontier website:
"Meet the galaxy’s needs with trade, piracy or smuggling."
https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/

So it is a criminal subjob of trade.
Is trading and all branches now non-essential?



Castrating, close to reality would allow to contract players
to steal stuff or kill people for horrendous amounts of money,
also we would be the guys actually faking our IDs and so on.
We would be the ones that would actually "provide services".

And those people you contract will don't respond for their crimes I assume

Incredible reality where you live.

 

[Mrat13]

Why, whenever a 'pirate' player posts, they seemingly have no clue how to pirate?

I'm not a pirate, I prefer to stay legal unless it's say, smuggling, which if I'm sneaky, I can get away with, unlike pircacy.

But, I know all you need to do is target the cargo hatch, and all the goodies will simply fall out of your victim, without killing them.

Seems to me these 'pirates', deserve their trade to die, if they can't seem to do their job properly....

 

[Siobhan]

Now on the actual point that pirates take away from your fun: they don't, they add to the fun, if Frontier thought getting pirated couldn't be fun it wouldn't be part of the multiplayer experience. If any of the possible and legal interactions in Open retracts from your fun - and piracy is very much an expected and normal interaction - you have the responsibility to either not pick Open as your game mode, or accept that occasionally your expectations will conflict with what the game is trying to do.

This is of course a valid point of view.
For some people, getting pirated is, or at least can be fun.
However, for the majority this is not the case. If it were, then we'd not have all these threads about Open being empty, or people "hiding" in Solo, or of CLogging etc, since everyone would be all happy and jolly about being pirated and/or murderhoboed.

So yeah, that's why PG and Solo exist, for those who don't feel that being a victim is fun.

In any case, for realism's sake, piracy should never be as profitable as any legal career path. If the risk vs reward is to be balanced, then stolen goods should sell for approximately 0.01% of the market value, since the pirate risks about 0.01% of what a trader does in any interaction. An interaction I might add, that the trader didn't want in the first place.

 

[Julio Montega]

Why is it so ridiculous? Is playing a role ridiculous? It is the core of people's fun, at least in this game....



And those people you contract will don't respond for their crimes I assume

Incredible reality where you live.

You are reflecting the whole stuff with an "out-of-game" perspective.
Have a single look at bounty hunting, there are no repercussions for simple
murder there, no need to inform anyone you are going to grab a bounty, thus attacking,
just an arbitrary scan needed, and it all is well.

 

[GG7]

I can only assume that those who engage in piracy do so for the gameplay/thrill of the role. Anyone with more than a couple of hundred hours into ED knows that in terms of profits/earnings, you can do far better sticking to LEGAL avenues for your revenue stream.

Passenger missions pay far more per hour than any pirate based activities will ever provide. The same can be said for practically any other endeavor within the game.