Personal Narrative

[-VR- Max Factor]

Which translates to pressing J a bunch of times to deliver things or pay donation via the BB, pressing J to go to another piece of space practically identical to the last one you were in and defeat an easy AI threat and a bunch more J's back and forth as you delivered food - so most of the "game" is watching a loading screen and sitting in SC.

So whilst your text makes it sound fun, when you break down what you did, it really wasn't that much other than a whole lot of sitting there.

Sounds like every computer game ever made.

 

[ozrix84]

no matter how dim the beacon of hope.

live in hope, die in hope. more years worth of frustration ahead of you.

 

[Stealthie]

Sounds like every computer game ever made.

And the only difference between an engaging game and a mediocre one is how well that fact is disguised.

 

[RandomGun]

https://eddb.io/body/9835437

Doing science. One jump to Iah Lanitei.

Ship Log:
14:18 Landed on Iha Lanitei C 1
14:19 Noticed that I forgot to bring SRV
14:30 Bought a brand new SRV from Dassault Gateway
14:39 After some embarassing manouvers landed again on C 1
14:43 Found Outcrop with 1x3 Technetium
14:45 Got distracted by a landed Imperial Navy Vessel
14:48 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
14:51 Found Outcrop with 0 Technetium
14:53 Found Metallic with 1x3 Technetium
14:56 Found Outcrop with 0 Technetium
15:00 Found Mesosiderite with 0 Technetium
15:02 Found Mesosiderite with 0 Technetium
15:05 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:07 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:09 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:10 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:12 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:14 Found Mesosiderite with 0 Technetium
15:18 Found 3 Mesosiderites with 0 Technetium
15:21 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:24 Found Outcrops with 0 Technetium
15:26 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:28 Found Mesosiderite with 0 Technetium
15:30 Found Outcrop with 0 Technetium
15:33 Found Outcrop with 0 Technetium
15:35 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium
15:36 Found Outcrop with 0 Technetium
15:37 Found Outcrop with 0 Technetium
15:38 Found Outcrop with 0 Technetium
15:40 Found Bronzite with 0 Technetium

Summary: one hour driving, nearly 30 rocks blasted, 6 Technetium (2x3), got bored at this point too.

 

[Captain N]

To me, personal narrative would have meant something like the missions from the original Elite (1984)

Unique handcrafted missions given to you at specific points during your journey from Harmless to Elite and only given to you once. Whatever you do in those missions, would therefore be a binding choice giving them some weight, even if the consequences aren't important on a galactic scale.

They don't need to be some grand galaxy-saving stuff - the BGS and Powerplay and Galnet news and alien invasions already answer the need for grand scale narrative. Just plot hooks presumably mattering to an individual CMDR on a personal level.

Unlike the missions in the original Elite, these could be branching and have different endings, choices you make in one mission could carry over to the next. Recurring NPC's could remember your past actions, bear grudges, etc.

The characters and locations could easily be randomized using the procedural generation mechanics already in the game. The recurring pirate lord darkly obsessed with you doesn't need to have the same face or home system as that other CMDR's nemesis. The bounty hunter relentlessly chasing you for your grandfather's debts doesn't need to be working for the same crime syndicate, but the generic Blue Brothers or Jet Gang of that other system. etc. Locations and minor factions in this game are largely interchangeable and there's a nearly infinite number of them so why not take advantage of that. You could have mostly handcrafted character-based narratives without suffering from the SWTOR syndrome too much.

But let's see, maybe this broker guy and his progress bars are just the tip of the iceberg of what's been planned.

 

[Winterwalker]

But I do find it amusing that there are so many people here who are willing to dig in their heels and insists that yes, Buying a Gun in a Store is what personal narrative looks like, and expecting anything more is just pure insanity.

I think it CAN do, though you're right, pretty basic. So is flipping a faction, any mission - in fact if you did it and I didn't, that's your 'personal narrative' and not mine. I've been BASE jumping in an SRV ...

You have to start somewhere (architecturally speaking and game wise) though and I do agree 'personal narrative' is a touch of new speak, reaction to 'global narrative' - of CG's that got a bit over cooked during Return.

Anyway, my personal narrative is bigger than yours! (Arf). And cor, look at the personal narratives on that!

 

[Muetdhiver]

Which translates to pressing J a bunch of times to deliver things or pay donation via the BB, pressing J to go to another piece of space practically identical to the last one you were in and defeat an easy AI threat and a bunch more J's back and forth as you delivered food - so most of the "game" is watching a loading screen and sitting in SC.

So whilst your text makes it sound fun, when you break down what you did, it really wasn't that much other than a whole lot of sitting there.

^^ at a fundamental level, all games are a matter of pushing the right button in the right order at the right time. Or Rolling the right skills at the right time.

Only things that matters is : Why ?

In ED Why = "To make credits" in most cases.

Moving to intrinsic rewards (i.e. playing for the fun/advancing the story/discovering X) is much harder to setup, as one needs :

1) Memorable locations, and characters. ED has the former done okayish, but not the later.
2) Getting the players in situations where they have skin in the game (i.e. care about where the story is going) : non-existant (embryo state in the BGS/PP)
3) Initial challenge - setback/complications - Final challenge : non-existant
4) Meaningfull narative context by making good use of the lore as backdrop/clue/reward : mostly missing
5) Color (social realist station in communist systems, slums/high rise in Corpo, System at war being very dangerous idea and feeling like it, etc...) : mostly missing
6) Opposition driven by legible motives and with ressource to bring to bear against the player : inexistant

Once this is improved, FD can build robust not-fully linear "quests"/"short stories" centered around ED lore / memorable locations. (e.g. Tionisla graveyard, the Lave cluster and so on).

If I was in FDev shoes I would try to pick a dozen of memorable ED locations with a rich lore, and build a 5-by-5's for each.

To FDev : read about "5x5 quest design", "3 clues rule", "don't prep plots, prep situations"

 

[Jex =TE=]

Except materials are available to find in a mile wide range of ways .. so not really.

What has that got to do with what I said which is...

Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
A personal narrative is a story, right? Your characters story? So in the case of ED, you're story is as interesting as the "personal narrative" of the factory working telling you about the 3456th arm he attached to a doll. Most people when they play a game they paid money for expect something fun and interesting to do.

 

[Jex =TE=]

There was this one time, my friend and I went to a hotdog stand, and I got a hotdog with ketchup on it, but he got a hotdog with mustard. Both hotdogs costs $1.25. Now, *I* paid with four quarters, one dime, and two nickels; but my friend did something totally different: he paid with a dollar bill, TWO dimes, and five pennies! We each had our own personal narrative. I guess you might say we were each blazing our own trail.

Hey, ummmm... you wanna come over and see the 1000 pictures of the cruise I took last year. I have a projector and I have my own, personal narrative, to go along with each slide it's really exciting! I have a whole selection on "rivets" and I always open with the joke "brace yourselves, this is going to be rivetting!"

Oh, how I laugh....

 

[Winterwalker]

What has that got to do with what I said which is...

Your metaphor, factory worker, in Tech Brokers and given Material Brokers doesn't have to do the same job (3456th) times to get the job done. Collect random materials any way you like and trade for the materials you want. To save time, go direct to the best source of desired materials and skip the materials broker step.

 

[Jex =TE=]

the game is what it is, and always will be. this is just how frontier rolls. it's their signature style. people don't need to hang around if they have different expectations of what it should be. because it never will be. makes sense?

People won't be hanging around if the next 12 months prove to be a failure.

 

[lmp1986]

You could call it a personalization or customization feature but there's really no narrative associated with it. In fact the existing systems such as Navy ranks, Powerplay or Engineers give you more tools to "tell your story" than the tech broker (at least from what we've seen, maybe there's more to it). Who you align yourself with, what goals you work towards and what are you willing to do to achieve them all says more about you than which gun you spend your vanadium on.

I'm not saying it's going to be a bad system, but (again, from what we know so far) "personal narrative" doesn't describe it well.

 

[Jex =TE=]

And the only difference between an engaging game and a mediocre one is how well that fact is disguised.

Yes and no. Some games make you think, some make you rely on map knowledge, some give you puzzles to solve (portal), some require you skill up. All things that are things you need to learn. ED doesn't really touch on any of those in a big way which is one of it's issues.

 

[ozrix84]

People won't be hanging around if the next 12 months prove to be a failure.

that's what people said 12 month ago.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Your metaphor, factory worker, in Tech Brokers and given Material Brokers doesn't have to do the same job (3456th) times to get the job done. Collect random materials any way you like and trade for the materials you want. To save time, go direct to the best source of desired materials and skip the materials broker step.

No that isn't what I meant. I was saying that the gameplay is that dull that a personal narrative equivalent would be talking the factory worker about his job in the example I made.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Please remember to discuss the post and not the poster.

 

[Dsign]

Hey, what was presented in the stream is one thing, who knows what's coming along with it ?
Why hate it when it's not even released yet, we don't even know what the entire thing is

 

[Cygnus X-1]

"I supported the uprising of communist rebels in fringe system X, and asked to be rewarded in materials/data rather than credits. After this I helped them stave off a famine, and hunted down a pirate lord that threatened the system. This got me the required materials to gain access to a customized weapon from a local tech broker." etc etc.

This is the problem I have with this mentality: I have to imagine all of these details. You make it sound so much more interesting than it really is in the game. The actual gameplay loop is so detached from any of this detail. The way you describe these activities sound so amazing, but the actual gameplay is pretty minimal and detached from the experience you're imagining. You don't really feel or experience the effects of you helping rebels in a system. At best, you see a percentage point of influence change. You don't know anything about the rebels you're helping or what they're fighting against.

It the same issue when they announced the search and rescue contact. It sounded great in theory...finally I can roleplay being a search and rescue team! But how did it really manifest itself in the game? You pick up cargo, in this case escape pods, which behave exactly the same as most of the other cargo in the game, and deliver it to a menu in a space station. Were it not for the different text on the button label, it would be functionally the same as selling cargo in the market or turning in combat bonds. It doesn't feel different enough.

So no, I don't think turning in materials to unlock a weapon counts as personal narrative, nor does it sound interesting. It's exactly the same gameplay loop that we've had with CGs, combat bonds, search and rescue, albeit with a different reward. It's just different text on a label.

 

[Julio Montega]

Hey, what was presented in the stream is one thing, who knows what's coming along with it ?
Why hate it when it's not even released yet, we don't even know what the entire thing is

The stream merely was a drip in an already overflowing barrel,
timing to ask the question about the narractive again.

This is the problem I have with this mentality: I have to imagine all of these details. You make it sound so much more interesting than it really is in the game. The actual gameplay loop is so detached from any of this detail. The way you describe these activities sound so amazing, but the actual gameplay is pretty minimal and detached from the experience you're imagining. You don't really feel or experience the effects of you helping rebels in a system. At best, you see a percentage point of influence change. You don't know anything about the rebels you're helping or what they're fighting against.

It the same issue when they announced the search and rescue contact. It sounded great in theory...finally I can roleplay being a search and rescue team! But how did it really manifest itself in the game? You pick up cargo, in this case escape pods, which behave exactly the same as most of the other cargo in the game, and deliver it to a menu in a space station. Were it not for the different text on the button label, it would be functionally the same as selling cargo in the market or turning in combat bonds. It doesn't feel different enough.

So no, I don't think turning in materials to unlock a weapon counts as personal narrative, nor does it sound interesting. It's exactly the same gameplay loop that we've had with CGs, combat bonds, search and rescue, albeit with a different reward. It's just different text on a label.

Exactly that, the interaction with the world is not engaging,
it is just shallowly scratching a very broad surface.
This leads to accomplishments in the game feeling
meaningless and boring.
Gameplay of this sort is not fit for the time we are in.

 

[Muetdhiver]

This is the problem I have with this mentality: I have to imagine all of these details. You make it sound so much more interesting than it really is in the game. The actual gameplay loop is so detached from any of this detail. The way you describe these activities sound so amazing, but the actual gameplay is pretty minimal and detached from the experience you're imagining. You don't really feel or experience the effects of you helping rebels in a system. At best, you see a percentage point of influence change. You don't know anything about the rebels you're helping or what they're fighting against.

It the same issue when they announced the search and rescue contact. It sounded great in theory...finally I can roleplay being a search and rescue team! But how did it really manifest itself in the game? You pick up cargo, in this case escape pods, which behave exactly the same as most of the other cargo in the game, and deliver it to a menu in a space station. Were it not for the different text on the button label, it would be functionally the same as selling cargo in the market or turning in combat bonds. It doesn't feel different enough.

So no, I don't think turning in materials to unlock a weapon counts as personal narrative, nor does it sound interesting. It's exactly the same gameplay loop that we've had with CGs, combat bonds, search and rescue, albeit with a different reward. It's just different text on a label.

Head on nail.

You pointed out exactly what's missing : narative context, color and meaningfull in-world consequences.

Add this and missions would playout natively as sleutelbos put it. I.e. as it should.