Chieftain vs FAS (nearly same setup / fittings)

[Aashenfox]

I just checked, it's true, the only noticable difference between the two is that the FAS boost for 20 more, and the Chieftain jumps for 2 Ly more, that's it, everything else is almost exactly the same:

- same size
- same firepower
- same hull
- same agility
- same internals
- same distributor
- same shield
- same utility mounts
- same fuel tank
...

Different armor (Chieftain has 10% less base armor, and I fully expect a lower hardness rating)
Different firepower (Chieftain has more, three smalls are worth a lot more dps than one medium)
Different shield strength (from the glance in the livestream, the Chieftain has significantly better default shield value, on par with the gunship with size 6 shield)
Different hardpoints (Chieftain hardpoint convergence will be much better than the up/down larges on the FAS)
Different mass (Chieftain hull should be lighter based on shield and armor values)

But yeh, it does seem like a rejigged FAS, we've been saying it in other threads too.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

what about hull and weight (and therefore shield strength?)

 

[Aashenfox]

what about hull and weight (and therefore shield strength?)

See above.

By the way everyone, on paper the Viper Mk4 and Cobra Mk3 are even more similar than these two.

 

[Starender]

I don't really agree regarding the shield strength Aashenfox, with classic shield and 2 boosters, the FAS has 300 while the Chieftain has 340, almost the same

 

[Aashenfox]

I don't really agree regarding the shield strength Aashenfox, with classic shield and 2 boosters, the FAS has 300 while the Chieftain has 340, almost the same

Nearly 15%. I call that significant, especially when you add engineered multipliers.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

new rail boat

 

[GG7]

The Chieftain needs 2 additional Class 5 slots and an additional 8-10 Ly of Jump Range to set it apart from the pack and put it closer to the Python.

 

[Aashenfox]

The Chieftain needs 2 additional Class 5 slots and an additional 8-10 Ly of Jump Range to set it apart from the pack and put it closer to the Python.

That would make it the most slots of any medium ship and more than an Orca. As it is it has enough slots to hit diminshing returns on armor resistance, to add two more size 5 bays would be to give it similar shield values (via cells) to an FDL, only with a lot more hull, I think that would be a bit OP. In fact, I already think the Chieftain is OP. Also, in the stream, it was jumping 20ly fully A rated, so 30ly after FSD engineering, doesn't that make it the farthest jumping combat focused ship? It's certainly further than my python in combat fit with 128t cargo (26ly). The Python gives up a TREMENDOUS amount of agility to the Chieftain, too.

 

[ErichZann]

Nearly 15%. I call that significant, especially when you add engineered multipliers.

Well just not so much when comparing with the 120% better shields of the FDL (not even considering you can also put more boosters on the FDL)... I think the Chieftain could easily have 50% more shields compared to the FAS without being overpowered, not those tiny 15%... That would also allow you to use it without armor, keep it light and jump reasonably long.

edit: Regarding jumping 20 LY A-rated.. well, nothing engineered (engineered modules are also heavier), and also it was mostly empty, all those military slots etc... You will never get close to 30 with full armor with the current numbers, and you need full armor since the shield is s**t.

 

[GG7]

That would make it the most slots of any medium ship and more than an Orca. As it is it has enough slots to hit diminshing returns on armor resistance, to add two more size 5 bays would be to give it similar shield values (via cells) to an FDL, only with a lot more hull, I think that would be a bit OP. In fact, I already think the Chieftain is OP. Also, in the stream, it was jumping 20ly fully A rated, so 30ly after FSD engineering, doesn't that make it the farthest jumping combat focused ship? It's certainly further than my python in combat fit with 128t cargo (26ly). The Python gives up a TREMENDOUS amount of agility to the Chieftain, too.

There is a pretty universal call for 2 additional slots. I would prefer to just have those Class 5.

As for jump range... The ship should be able to hit close to 40 with a +53% or higher OM overspec. Exceeding the Python's jump range by about 5-10 Ly.

I don't see either as being OP. I see it as filling a gap in the fleet that needs to be filled.

 

[Aashenfox]

Well just not so much when comparing with the 120% better shields of the FDL (not even considering you can also put more boosters on the FDL)... I think the Chieftain could easily have 50% more shields compared to the FAS without being overpowered, not those tiny 15%... That would also allow you to use it without armor, keep it light and jump reasonably long.

edit: Regarding jumping 20 LY A-rated.. well, nothing engineered (engineered modules are also heavier), and also it was mostly empty, all those military slots etc... You will never get close to 30 with full armor with the current numbers, and you need full armor since the shield is s**t.

FDL comparison isn't exactly fair, in respect of shield strength, the FDL is the odd one out. It has far higher than any other medium ship. Anyway, point is it's nearly 15% more than the FAS, which after engineering will be compounded. I expect after armor it will get about the same range as my python does (25-26ly), still making it the farthest jumping combat focused ship, I believe (I might be forgetting something).

 

[Dommarraa]

A reasonable medium combat ship with an increased jump range over the Python is really what is needed to stop it from being a pretty but pretty useless clone. Lose a Mil Slot if you like, I never use them. Can only hope for a little tinkering during Beta.

 

[Aashenfox]

I just think asking for more jump range and more slots when it's already got loads of both is pipedreaming.

A single 5th utility slot would have made things interesting though.

 

[Starender]

actually, the very best way to make everyone happy would be to:

- Add another utility mount (make it 5)
- split a s2 internal into two s1

That would make it both different from the FAS and viable as a low range exploration ship.

 

[Tiny_Rick]

Will you equip the Chieftain the same way you have your FAS set up ?

What will you throw in the 3 x Small Slots instead of the 1 Medium?

I love this topic, since I adore the FAS, rep+

I'm hoping to basically segue all my engineers internals from the FAS onto the Cheiftain, Run fix cannons/pacs on the larges, consider efficient beams or cascade hammers on the smalls, and Grom Bomb/torp/seeker/packhound the medium.

 

[Dutchman141]

The Chieftain needs 2 additional Class 5 slots and an additional 8-10 Ly of Jump Range to set it apart from the pack and put it closer to the Python.

Imho exchange one C4 military slot for a regular C4 slot and the ship is much more interesting, 2 extra C5s is overkill and would divert to much of it's original intend.

Just my opinion.

 

[Aashenfox]

actually, the very best way to make everyone happy would be to:

- Add another utility mount (make it 5)
- split a s2 internal into two s1

That would make it both different from the FAS and viable as a low range exploration ship.

I approve.

 

[GG7]

Imho exchange one C4 military slot for a regular C4 slot and the ship is much more interesting, 2 extra C5s is overkill and would divert to much of it's original intend.

Just my opinion.

But if we ask for 2 5s, Frontier might relent and give us what you are asking for as a compromise.

I always over request with things like this.

But regardless of our own personal opinions, it seems pretty universal based on all the comments that the current slot count is too light.

My request for additional base jump range would compensate for those 2 extra slots if they were added.

 

[Starender]

i wonder how to make DEVs look into the solution to balance the Chieftain, because now is the end of the week and they won't look at it, and by monday this post might disappear

 

[Knightshark]

I just checked, it's true, the only noticable difference between the two is that the FAS boost for 20 more, and the Chieftain jumps for 2 Ly more, that's it, everything else is almost exactly the same:

- same size
- same firepower
- same hull
- same agility
- same internals
- same distributor
- same shield
- same utility mounts
- same fuel tank
...

It sounds better and looks better! Maybe it handles better? Hardpoint placement seems better.
But, yeah, i would have preferred something more 'unique'.